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Differences between internet research on Uruguay and boots on the ground realityand

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Vortice
  7/5/2017 06:51 EST

We did years of internet research on Uruguay and month long trips, before moving here. The internet is full of misinformation on all subjects including Uruguay. Clean air and abundant, clean water were big priorities for us, and I read on the internet that Uruguay has the cleanest air and that one can drink water from any tap in Uruguay.
In terms of clean air, I believe it is the old adage that "dilution is the solution to pollution". With only 3.5 million people here the air is generally very clean, except in urban areas or if one is following an old, ill maintained vehicle. In urban areas the air pollution from vehicles is a year-round problem. Now that it is winter, and most people here heat their homes by burning wood, there is a great deal of smog in any city or town. Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of wood burning and of the parilla, but when everyone is doing it in an urban environment, the general air quality is horrible. I have seen bundles of firewood for sale in Montevideo that are painted architectural wood, which undoubtedly contains lead which will be added to the air. There is also considerable ag burning of brush, leaves, and trash. Then there is the junk yard on Ruta 37 where they set fire to huge piles of refrigerators and such to reduce them to scrap steel. The thick, black cloud from all the burning plastic and insulation can be seen for miles. There are many bugs here and people use copious amounts of insecticides in their homes. There are RAID, plug-ins that, just like the automatic plug-in air fresheners, automatically spray insecticide indoors periodically. We would not have believed that these existed if we had not seen them.
Waste water/sewage is commonly disposed of in what is called a "pozo negro", a masonry lined pit tank that is intentionally built to leak and leach the liquid out so the solids can be periodically sucked out by the "bariometricos" (vac truck). These pozo negtos are often very close to, and contaminates water wells. In one picturesque beach community we stayed in, it is common for people to lower a sump pump into the pozo negro and pump the black water off of the solids when the tank is overfilled. This gets pumped into the gutter or a neighboring empty lot. Many water wells are shallow, 20-50 feet deep, which invites contamination from surface water and sewage infiltration. We stayed on a chacra outside of Colonia where the shallow water well was located in an orchard where herbicides were used heavily. When we realized this, we started buying bottled water to drink. The owner died of pancreatic cancer, and we wonder if herbicide contamination played a role in her death. While water from the water company OSE, is safe to drink, we recommend drinking bottled water until one is sure of the water quality from other sources.

carlitos
  7/5/2017 08:18 EST

I'd like to add to Vortice's that all this is true and if we dig more we will see worse and most of the people don't care. Yesterday I had to walk from Av. Italia y Comercio till Curva de maronas some 2 miles and the amount of garbage on the streets is amazing.

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papajohn
  7/5/2017 09:19 EST

"The land of filth" & "Nation of distrust" are our two nicknames for UY and part of the things you will have to get used to here. If you are coming from the USA, you will be shocked at how disgustingly dirty everything is and wonder why and how the people tolerate it. I've got some theories on why that is but suffice to say it's pretty bad and not likely to change since most people don't seem to mind. The level of filth varies depending on where you are but for the most part it's ubiquitous and part of the culture. Here's a tip that will keep your shoe bottoms clean: Always keep your eyes on the ground in front of you when walking the streets so as to avoid the numerous dog poop land mines that abound. Many people think it's fine to let their dogs do their business on the sidewalk and just leave it there for someone else to deal with. Also, many of the sidewalks in are in disrepair with broken tiles and such so watch out for that too since you can very easily twist an ankle. The "nation of distrust" moniker is a topic for another day.

Vortice
  7/5/2017 20:55 EST

I do not wish to disagree with any of this, but do wish to point out that the same comments about dog poop on the streets apply to Madrid, the capital of Spain and many other places.. Survival means persistent vigilance of your path regardless of ones location or century. That is as timeless as humanity.
As to the uneven sidewalk paving: I am an anomaly, having watched my tax dollars spent to repave the same sections of sidewalk in Santa Barbara, CA, many times over 30 years, when there was nothing wrong with what was there to begin with. I am actually amused and at ease (take pleasure with) with the bad sidewalk paving here, and would say that only a fool walks blindly, unless they are truly blind, for whom these sidewalks do indeed pose considerable obstacles. A new-found, elderly, nearly blind, Uruguayan friend here does however, navigate these sidewalks, without issue. He is careful and has learned the pitfalls of his routes and he is a responsible, and self sufficient individual. Rather inspirational.
To me it is extremely refreshing to not exist in a "Nanny Society" where a bad sidewalk becomes a litigious issue. Yes, you better look where you are walking, and not expect that "Daddy" has made it "safe" for you to be blissfully ignorant (willful blindness).
I must agree that from a trash perspective, it is like stepping back many decades, to a time when when people in the US threw their trash from car widows or from anywhere else. That is hard to watch. Yet there is a growing awareness, slow, but growing none the less. Here in the Sierras de las Animas, there is a trash problem to be sure, but there is also a strong, growing neighborhood movement to protect this precious environment and the native flora and fauna therein. That civic effort is relatively new. Though Uruguay is a collision of the third world and the first world, the people here are learning and are opening their eyes at an ever increasing rate. Economic realities render this a slow process, but it is still, none the less, encouraging to patiently watch this process blossoming. Yes, our visiting family members will often be appalled....there will be considerable explaining required.

Expat91364
  7/5/2017 23:23 EST

I would have to agree with Vortice and say that it is getting better. Also compared to other nations this place is spotless. Returned recently from the Dominican Republic and now that is truly disgusting!!!

I often have conversations with Uruguayans who come back from their first visit to the states and are amazed by the orderliness and cleanliness. What is lacking here is a sense of civic responsibility and 50 years ago we didn't have it in the US either. At least as far as littering, or the environment.

We too are more respectful of Societal norms. Right on Red here or a 4 way intersections with stop signs for everyone would be a nightmare! This takes time to happen in a developing society. My grand parents had a farm and there was a hole out back where trash was dumped and eventually buried. No one thought anything about it.

Oh and the Pozo negro is simply an old fashioned Septic Tank. I can tell you that in Malibu California that ocean is disgusting because of all the Septic systems present. Just like here except we add bacterias to ours to reduce the pumping.

sylk
  7/6/2017 01:26 EST

Lots of wisdom in Vortice's comments. And i haven't seen anything here more 'filthy' than most of Europe (well, except Switzerland of course) - i always told my children - as they ran their wee fingers along an old village wall, then showing me a grey, green muck - that it was years of collected stories that we were here to learn.

Here in Uruguay - this is a tough one ... we are guests in this wonderful country. and it is beautiful - compared to where i came from, UY is replete with birds, wildlife, the whole net.

But it would be obnoxious to start pointing out things that are "wrong". (Like pesticides you've described that squirt on a schedule. eeeks). or sneering at your gardener: No, please don't use that. Please. we'll deal with the weeds. arrghh.

There is a huge community of environmentally conscious Uruguayans. i think if expats could connect with those groups and offer to help under their established leadership, we could get a lot more done effectively. They know the system and the country, the culture as well - we may have a bit of science coming from a bigger country to add. - but i know i have faux pas - ed my way into awkwardness more than once by not knowing the "culture".

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dawsonpointers
  7/6/2017 08:40 EST

It's interesting to look at pictures of old Montevideo or Piriapolis. They appear modern for the time and very clean. What happened?
We are awash in plastic packaging; much of which is excessive or unneeded. Bottled water is now ubiquitous but was unheard of 20 years ago. How many plastic bags are used to package a few groceries (we take our own reusable fabric bags). The frequent strikes by garbage collectors doesn't help either.
Key to the solution is changing attitudes particularly amongst the young; but, that will take time. The influx of tourists with their own lifestyles at home makes that more of a challenge.
There's hope. There's also a lot of inertia but inertia is only recognized when there is a force to change.

papajohn
  7/6/2017 09:18 EST

I think that is a fantastic idea! I was thinking the same thing myself and if it caught on it could really make a difference but will take time of course. My question is this: Where is this huge community of environmentally conscious Uruguayans and how do we get in contact with them? I know it will be a monumental task to make a dent in something that has been going on for who knows how long but would be worth the effort. Organizing local cleanups is one thing but what really needs to happen to make effective and permanent change is changing the locals attitudes about trashing the land and that my friends is a tall order. Who's up for the challenge? I can also say from experience here that government needs to be more involved. We had a difficult time just getting our rubbish picked which included multiple trips to Intendencia in MVD to no avail. We finally gave up and now have to haul it ourselves even though we pay for the service which is part of our taxes. It's a long and frustrating story but the upshot is we still have no pickup nor does anyone on our street. When I inquired about rubbish removal to one of my neighbors, he gladly offered to haul it away for us. Naively thinking he would be bringing it to a proper dumping facility, we let him help us out. We followed him to see where he was taking it and were very disappointed when after traveling only a couple of blocks, he dumped it on the side of the road in a makeshift roadside dump (VERY common here BTW) for all the world to see. Needless to say we didn't go that route again but it just goes to show the mindset here as it relates to trash. ************************************************************************************************************ With all that being said, there really is no place on this earth that we would rather be (at this point in history) than here. There are pros and cons to everything and everywhere no matter where it is. We find that (for now) the pros outweigh the cons here in Uruguay and we are happy to be here. There is much to enjoy when you focus on the positive and mitigate the negative the best you can. Now about that trust thingy...

letsmove
  7/6/2017 10:43 EST

They do not feel they can afford to drive those trucks out into the campo nor hire the cheap labor. Do they not put roadside dumpsters going into town? I just load my bags into the trunk whenever I go to town and dump in one of these 'neighborhood' bins. What I really get upset about is all the broken glass all over one's property. I have been to a number of chacras and broken glass is common even in gateways to pastures. I am wondering if it is illegal to dump glass in those public bins and therefore people here just litter their yard with it. It's a 'forever' job picking it up and putting into the trash bin.

papajohn
  7/6/2017 11:15 EST

I forgot to mention that we live in MVD department and the street we live on has no bins but instead is supposed to have truck pickup. My point in mentioning our experience with the MVD sanitation department is the fact that the government agency that is responsible for keeping the streets clean and removing the rubbish was not overly concerned with solving our problem. The impression we got from dealing with numerous workers at the department was one of "What's the big deal, just burn it or go dump it somewhere." This attitude permeates throughout most people here including the government. Making any changes here with this serious environmental issue is going to be an uphill battle. It can be done but will require the efforts of all levels of citizenry including and especially the government. We would welcome the change and volunteer our efforts if an organized approach to solving the problem presents itself. I just don't see it happening anytime soon unfortunately.

LinLu
  7/6/2017 13:33 EST

It will be 2 years in October that I have lived in this very beautiful country of Uruguay. There are a lot of things that are in need of help. But I find a huge difference between Montevideo and Punta del Este where we live. Here we constantly comment about how clean everything is -- the streets, the air, the water. However, we know that the smoke issue is one that has given me allergic fits upon occasion! :)
However, compared to where we came from in the states, it is much cleaner here (no garbage laying around except some in the summer.) We lived out of town for a little over a year, and have heard that the septic is not the most wonderful setup. However, instead of having a serious problem with it, we purchased a very good water filter and use it all the time. I also agree that I think the fact that Uruguay does not have a huge population is helpful in many ways. Dilution solution -- never heard that before but we often speak about how there is almost no one here in Punta for over 9 months out of the year!
We love it here and are finding the organic options to be plentiful including many things "appearing" one day in supermarkets where they didn't exist before. So much to be thankful for. We are super glad we moved here.
Also, about the internet and boots on the ground: the only difference we have truly found significant is the cost of purchasing a home or of renting. These are, in general, much higher, and much more difficult to find in a reasonable range than we read about.

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EdNewYorkCity
  7/6/2017 15:04 EST

I just read on "El Pais" newspaper an article about the problems people complain about
It is based on information gathered by an organization called "The neighbors defense" (Defensoria del Vecino).
The top of the list is occupied by "garbage control", "trees care" and "sewage infrastructure".
As you can see a lot of people care about the problems affecting the environment, the key is to find solutions to them.

The article:
http://www.elpais.com.uy/informacion/limpieza-arbolado-tope-quejas-vecinos.html

Those interested in finding solutions may contact
www.defensordelvecino.com.uy

Vortice
  7/7/2017 06:09 EST

I would like to thank all of you for your insightful posts and experiences. We too are thrilled we made the move here, and the issues I originally posted about are the reasons that we chose a chacra in the Sierras de Las Animas. We are out in the boonies with only 4-5 neighbors within a kilometer of us. I always dreamed of living in such stunning natural splendor as this. Furthermore the neighborhood defense movement is very big here. We have not been to a meeting yet as we have only been on the farm for two months and have been preoccupied with infrastructure: setting pump in the deep well, putting road base and gravel on the driveway (mud!), and this last week finally installing a 5000lt plastic septic tank and a toilet. We too take our trash to dumpsters in town, and have greatly reduced the volume of same through Hugelkultur composting (1/4 of previous volume). Now to finish the plumbing so that we do not have to haul water from the water tower! As it can be challenging to find good workers who are not already employed, and to save money, I am doing all myself (building contractor in another life) so it is a decidedly slow process. Our closest neighbor, a landscaper in MVD, says the local neighborhood network, is organic minded and is growing, but is slow and has many organizational challenges. Another important factor in all of these issues is the average level of education in this country. Many people are uneducated for various reasons. In Los Rurales, over 25% of the children do not attend school, often because school is too distant and there are always chores to be done on the farm (high rate of child labor in Uy). This necessarily slows the pace of progress. My comments may seem very critical, but are not intended as such, rather are intended to be realistic observations, not judgement on Uruguay or its populace. This is largely a friendly, polite society of people who seek the path to positive change.

sjthornton
  7/7/2017 10:42 EST

I have a couple of questions for Vortice:

What is a neighborhood defense movement? Is it like the farmers co-ops here in the States?

Also, I had understood that Uruguay had one of the highest literacy rates in Latin America. Is that not true? It can't be if you're saying the education levels are low and only 25% of children go to school. Are you talking about the difference between rural and urban areas?

Vortice
  7/7/2017 16:47 EST

I do not yet have first hand knowledge of the neighborhood defense movements, but they are basically neighbors getting together to discuss the problems they share in their neighborhoods. Whether that be trash service, crime, traffic hazards, agricultural, sanitation, tourist opportunities or other economic issues. I am not familiar with the farmers coop in the US, but believe this is more broad based and varies by whether the neighborhood group in question is rural or urban.
In terms of school attendance the 25%+ not attending was for the rural areas with non-rural areas coming in around 15% for older kids. I am not in education so cannot say for sure, but I would not equate literacy rate with education. Being able to read is one thing, having the broad, historical knowledge base to reason is another matter in my humble opinion. Also knowledge scores regarding futbol are far higher than those regarding math and science here. We have met and done business with many educated people here, and am just recounting educational statistics I read in the news down here.

LinLu
  7/7/2017 16:58 EST

I know you said you only wanted to ask Vortices the question, but since I am a teacher here in Uruguay I thought I would direct you to what the officials say. Some of us at International College in Punta del Este, work both in the private and public sectors. I don't know if you read Spanish or not, but here are the figures in Spanish:
El 36% de los adolescentes no estudia
El 13% de los adolescentes no estudia ni trabaja. El 23,7% no estudia ni trabaja, pero busca trabajo. El 13% estudia y trabaja o busca trabajo. Y el 50,2% solo estudia. Así lo señala el Anuario del MEC, que registra un aumento de jóvenes Ni-Ni.
The bottom line of the article is that 13% study and work, and 50.2% study only. So that is at least a higher number than 25%. If they are in school above 1st or 2nd grade, or if they are in primary or secondary school they can definitely read Spanish. So the number is not quite as bad as you might think. However, it is definitely not as high as I was led to believe before I moved here. The website I got the information from is:
http://www.elpais.com.uy/informacion/adolescentes-porcentaje-no-estudia.html which is the big newspaper here. So it is one viewpoint. ni ni means they don't work or study. If you know a bit of Spanish, there is quite a bit of information available to read on the educational system here which for public school, is very sadly lacking.

sjthornton
  7/7/2017 18:49 EST

Thank you LinLu and Vortice! That makes perfect sense about literacy versus education. I'm studying Spanish and my reading is getting better, but I have a long way to go. I'll check out El Pais. It seems to me that the English language websites aren't as accurate as the ones in Spanish.

Vortice
  7/9/2017 18:27 EST

Thank you Linlu for adding your professional perspective and the specific statistics that I, as a layman was unable to adequately present.

EdNewYorkCity
  7/10/2017 05:23 EST

A few things I didn't quite agree with Vortice initial post.

1)Air quality.
In my opinion Uruguay has one of highest air quality in the world as the following article based on a study by the University of Yale confirms.

http://guruguay.com/uruguay-air-quality/

There is no smog on any city in Uruguay for a few reasons: Geography (no mountains to trap the smog), Atmosphere (there's a constant air movement across Uruguay that keeps the air fresh. Low population density and low industrialization.
The use of wood to heat houses IS NOT prevalent at all in Montevideo, that's reserved for the rest of the country but there are no big cities other than Montevideo.
Smoke has the tendency to go straight up and then is taken by the constant breeze, so unless you're very close to the source (traffic smoke, etc) chances are the air is going to be smoke free.
The junk yard fire on Ruta 37 probably goes unnoticed by the closest towns since Uruguay's natural chimeny takes the smoke away in no time.
See, on paper you can do all kinds of calculations and studies but at the end you have to test if that really affects the quality of air.
In my experience, every place I go in Uruguay has a very high quality of air.

2) Water
I grew up in Montevideo drinking unfiltered OSE's water all my life and I never heard or had any health problem water related.
I agree that well water might not be the best option to drink but again I never heard anybody having health issues related to it.
Maybe they filter it, not sure.

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