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buying a condo

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awalles
10/19/2016 13:35 EST

How does buying a condo work in Colombia? Do you put down a down payment and then pay a mortgage company? What is an average down payment and monthly payment?

timllowe
10/19/2016 15:55 EST

You have two ways to go, buy an existing apartment (from an individual) or buy new construction (from a developer.) Dealing with an individual seller is strictly case in almost all cases. Some builders will assist you with borrowing the money but it's not all that common. Cash buyers get priority.

Understand the property prices are quite low here relative to US and Europe.

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WhoaNellie
10/19/2016 16:00 EST

Interest rates are higher and generally you must put 30% down with 70% being financed if you borrow.

If you do an internet search for 'colombia tasa interes casa' you will get a number of hits (in Spanish) that will give you an idea of interest rate (tasa de interés) and down payment (cuota inicial) for an apartment or house. Here is a Bancolombia site that allows you to input parameters and simulate the details of the loan:

http://www.grupobancolombia.com/wps/portal/personas/productos-servicios/creditos/vivienda/adquisicion/simulador-solucion-inmobiliaria/

The numbers from Bancolombia using this site show, for instance, for an apartment in Valle del Cauca whose cost is $200,000,000 COP (a bit over $68K USD) you would need a down payment of $60,000,000 COP (only up to 70% may be financed, must put 30% down) for a loan maximum of $140,000,000 COP for 20 years, at an interest rate of 11.7% per annum, with the monthly payment about $1,456,115 COP or just under $500 USD.

The amounts can vary by the departamento in which the property is located, by the age of the borrower, length in years of the loan, etc. etc. It also will pay to shop around and compare rates.

guestuser
10/19/2016 16:14 EST

How easy is it for a foreigner to get a mortgage though? Would you need residency and employment?

soystar1
10/19/2016 19:02 EST

I recently just acquired my new apt. The construction company will ask for a down payment. They will give you time to put this money in a Colombian bank of their choosing. A word of warning please make copies of all payments and get a receipt from the selling agency or construction company. I ran into this about non received payments and I had to run over to the office and show my payments. They run on a very archaic payments received system and you don't want them to put your money in their pockets. Hold them accountable.

They will then give you up to 18 months or more to complete the transaction while the housing project is completed. I would recommend paying the minimum until the project gets completed and your given title and keys to the new place.

It's very easy to buy here. Like I said the projects here fall behind regularly. I had to threaten them with a complaint with the Protegido de Consumidores Office and so they are paying my rent while my place is done. My place is about 95% done but still I finally found someone that does business the right way even though I had to push back hard.

guestuser
10/19/2016 19:19 EST

The projects aren't without risk either. There's a large development on the airport road to Medellin that's been put on hold by the authorities as there is a suggestion that the land purchased was owned by narco money. Not just an issue for people purchasing the apartments and houses but also those involved with building it. The landscaper we use was contracting there and has now been on hold for a couple of months.

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timllowe
10/19/2016 19:20 EST

I think you should point out that this money paid to the developer is not held in escrow. It's just paid to the developer. This is the reason I opted not to buy new construction.

cccmedia
10/19/2016 20:00 EST

OP Awalles is getting excellent advice on this thread on why to avoid pre-construction condo deals.

Another factor to consider is that discounts are available .. in buildings that are more than a couple of years old.

In the capital of the neighboring country of Ecuador, I paid for a pre-construction condo in 2005. It was eight more years before I could take possession.

Part of the delays was an attorney who was in no hurry to move things along and close. Most of the problem was changes in the developer's ownership and management .. and construction delays.

Avoid buying South American property in pre-construction unless you're a gambler with what Elvis sang about: "money to burn." (From 'Viva Las Vegas'.)

cccmedia

dliss62
10/19/2016 20:30 EST

When buying something "sobre planos"... does not the contract stipulate a timeline, payments and contingencies? In other words, if the builder ultimately does not deliver does the contract provide any protection?

LaPiranha
10/19/2016 20:37 EST

I don't know about ALL off-plan purchases, but mine did.

I bought an apartment off-plan about a year before I moved here. They estimated 1 year until completion, and in the contract It allowed the developer until a certain date to complete. When I arrived in Colombia, they still hadn't started to build, so I gave them a little time to start construction. However, despite constant promises to start next week, tomorrow, next month, it never got under way. So I had the right to cancel in my contract, which I did. The money I also got them to agree should be put in a fiduciaria, to protect me (I paid in full), and so when I cancelled I got all my money back plus a nominal interest, and bought my present apartment. To this day, 3 years later, they still haven't started construction of the original one.

timllowe
10/19/2016 21:14 EST

I don't think it's a big risk of you use a big developer. Mora is not going to skip the country over a bad development deal. I can point to 6 he is doing in the south of Cali right now. I was looking at a relatively new and much smaller developer and I just decided it was a bad risk.

Besides, I bough in a much older building and got a far larger place for less money.

Nobody has mentioned that the advertised price on most new construction is completely unimproved. You get walls, a door and roughed in plumbing for that price. You can either finish it yourself, contract it out or pay a much higher price for a finished apartment.

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guestuser
10/19/2016 21:16 EST

My experiences with new builds is something of a Catch-22 situation.

If you get in early on a development (before it has started construction) you have to wait until enough apartments have been sold before they commence work. That can result in an uncertain timeline.

On the other hand if you don't get in early you'll find that all of the best apartments have been cherry-picked usually by local 'investors' - who basically have bought the better apartments leaving the less attractive units for later buyers.

So you'll be walking around that 'show' penthouse and then find out that the only remaining apartments are on floors 3-7. My experience was that the better apartments had far less of a premium on than you'd think and generally were far better investments. You'll notice that as soon as buildings are finished the 'for sale' signs appear in the window as people attempt to flip the properties.

In terms of getting money back on deposits we had a small deposit on a well known recently completed building. We were told that our deposit was totally refundable. As we had some concerns about the building location (not far from another building that had famously collapsed) we sought out professional opinion on whether the location might be subject to subsidence etc. We were told that potentially there might be (effectively 'I wouldn't buy there').

We cancelled and getting the deposit back took a lot of effort. There was no complaint that we had rights to the money, just that the developer seemed to take a long time to find it. It wasn't a lot of money - but they didn't make it easy.

One other thing to consider is the increasing number of 'apart-hotels' that are springing up. They are effectively apartment building that have the constraints removed on the ability to make short term lets. Several of the 'gringo realtors' in Medellin are pushing these properties as reasonably they make better 'Investment properties' as they can be used for short term lets. Short term lets produce much better yields.

So what's not to like? Well, for me the issue is going to be on resale. 'Ordinary' buyers who want somewhere to live probably aren't going to be attracted to buildings that have a lot of short term lets. As a result the pool of people who might be interested in purchasing is going to be limited to 'new investors'; that may, or may not be a big pool.

BlueSeas
10/20/2016 08:23 EST

The apart-hotels will resell based on how much rent can be generated, Rent amounts established by supply and demand of tourists and business travelers. Regular apartments resell based on supply and demand for residential housing in a specific area.

These are linked to a degree, but the apart-hotel is a bet on increased tourism. Where the regular apartment is more a bet on the overall economy.

I don't see where given the large size of Poblado and Medellin, there can be a huge impact of retiring expats on apartment values. But then there was this in the NYT, so maybe I underestimate:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/23/realestate/house-hunting-in-colombia.html

guestuser
10/20/2016 08:57 EST

True on the bet on increased tourism. I do think that sellers of a apart-hotels may find themselves in continual competition with new build (builders will saturate any demand for apart-hotels)

Also to get the returns from lets you are going to need foreign tourists. There are several new apart-hotel developments up near the airport. That's a pleasant enough area for a local to pass the weekend but it's not going to be a destination for the foreign tourist. I can't see either the income (locals won't pay a lot) or enough traffic to make it viable.

In Medellin there are signs of development of new blocks up on inferior. Ultimately how many tourists are going to pay say $120 a night for an apartment there rather than staying in a more centrally located hotel for around the same price.

guestuser
10/20/2016 10:07 EST

On the article - good to see Medellin getting some publicity - it will no doubt attract some foreign interest in purchasing here. That won't move the market much - but it will certainly help FARM (Holman) and Casacol (Hinkelman).

Two points of interest in the article - one 'there's little new construction' - certainly doesn't look like that from my window and two, prices in some parts of Poblado have moved up 15% in the past year; that doesn't tie in with what realtors have been telling me which is that the market is overloaded with inventory in Poblado.

Still if you own property here (and I have one to sell at one of the agencies mentioned) not a bad article to have out there.

fecherklyn
10/20/2016 20:35 EST

A couple of additional points regarding "Old versus New".

The proposed tax reform that has just come out (today) states a 5% VAT cost will be payable on all NEW BUILDS above a certain threshhold price.

Also, there is an enormous difference in unit prices (COP/m2) between old and new. The latest per m2 prices for new builds in Poblado are now over 6 million /m2, whereas old property in similar locations mainly sells at less than half that price and does not attract the new 5% VAT.

guestuser
10/20/2016 21:44 EST

So the proposal - if passed - would relate to purchases of new builds in 2017 and going forward?

guestuser
10/20/2016 22:17 EST

Incidentally I'm seeing the threshold on that new build proposal to be for properties over COP 800 million (source El Colombiano). Not clear whether it's 5% on the balance over COP 800 million or on the total amount.

BlueSeas
10/20/2016 22:29 EST

Balance over 800M? Sure not going to generate too much, the new building in Alejandria next to ours with a scheduled completion of March 2017 were all under 800M (barely) with 3BR at 150-160 m2.

BlueSeas
10/20/2016 22:30 EST

Balance over 800M? Sure not going to generate too much, the new building in Alejandria next to ours with a scheduled completion of March 2017 were all under 800M (barely) with 3BR at 150-160 m2.

guestuser
10/20/2016 22:52 EST

150-160m2 apartments at around COP 800 million aren't the top of the market. That NY Times article mentioned in the thread focused on a Cop 2,600 million property. Many of the new builds on the airport road suggest they start at COP 1,200 million. And indicated costs for new builds are often without upgrades.
So taking that NY Times property (which I admit isn't a new build) 5% tax over COP 800 million would be a cool $31,000.

livinginmedellin
10/21/2016 09:04 EST

'There's little new construction' in El Poblado from that NYT article is BS. Pick up a new homes guide available in most big Exito stores and you'll find there are well over 20 big apartment projects underway in El Poblado.

Also prices increasing more than 15% in El Poblado is also BS as there are tons of properties for sale in El Poblado. I talked to several local real estate agents recently and they said properties in El Poblado are not selling very well, as they are too expensive without many buyers (except some sheep foreigners being pushed to buy expensive overpriced properties by FARM and Casacol). More sales are happening in lower cost Laureles and Belen and Envigado.

$889,800 (2.6 BILLION COLOMBIAN PESOS) in the NYT article is a very expensive property for Medellín that has likely been on the market for several years. I have watched several properties in Medellín priced at over 1 billion pesos that have been on the market for years.

guestuser
10/21/2016 13:27 EST

@lim your post seems to be 'anywhere but El Poblado'. In particular your comment 'without many buyers (except some sheep foreigners being pushed to buy expensive overpriced properties by FARM and Casacol)' seems to me rather unfair.

I agree that there's a surplus of properties at the moment. But the underlying story is rather more complicated.

Firstly property prices are struggling everywhere, one because of interest rates and secondly because there's a an amount of caution among the general populace waiting to see what comes with the new tax package. It's not a Medellin unique situation (in particular with the cost mortgages) that people will buy property in cheaper areas - e.g Envigado when they're shut out of more expensive areas. It's not that the demand couldn't be there (I know of plenty of young professionals who'd choose to live in Poblado) but with current interest rates that's not something they can do. People are waiting for interest rates to fall - but it's unclear whether that's going to happen.

Secondly it's true that there's a lot of overpriced property on the market. Part of that is home owners being unrealistic about what places are worth (over the past few years there's been so much growth in prices people believe that it's still going on) but a lot of it is real estate agents. We've have a property on the market now. We had several local real estate agents look at it. Each of them quoted sales prices that I considered overly optimistic. When we listed we took a cut on the listing price in an attempt to be more realistic. If I compare the property we're selling to others in the market it certainly looks underpriced. But - a lot of those overpriced properties aren't going to sell.

Thirdly one of the reasons there's a glut in property is that a lot of older people are selling up family apartments and moving outside the city to the new 'finca' developments. There's nothing sinister there - they're not leaving because they perceive El Poblado to be more 'dangerous' or having some negative change - it's more an aging population looking to the peace of the countryside and wanting a less busy lifestyle. So, there's a fair amount of property on the market from people like that, but that property generally isn't 'priced to sell' Most of the owners are wealthy and rather looking to sell to raise cash are prepared to wait until someone takes the hook of the price. Again another reason for some of the eye-catching pricing that you see. Incidentally prices in the 'elegant' pieces of the countryside near to the city are rising, very very quickly.

On the gringo real estate agencies while they do have their faults I believe that the concept that their clients are 'sheep' is rather strong.

There is this concept that they price higher than local agents. My experience is that isn't the case. Our property is listed with one of those agencies at exactly the same price as it is listed with a local agent - the revised lower price that I indicated earlier. One of the agencies also listed a new build at a lower price than we'd seen when we'd been interested in buying it some months before. The story there was that a buyer dropped out as they were unable to raise the funds - not uncommon here - and the agency had stepped in to take the listing at a discounted price. So, the concept that FARM and CASACOL have 'marked up' properties is certainly not universally true.

On FARM Holman is a real marketing guy. Peso strong - FARM will sell you a story for buying; peso weak they'll have another. My experience is that Holman is a very bright guy - the issue is that he quickly passes you onto his 'team' and my experience then on two occasions has been awful. Like others I've looked at the FARM 'newsletters' with some skepticism - for example the business center - but the reality is several people on this forum must have bought or invested through FARM and I've not noticed any subsequent complaints that the investments or purchases didn't work out.

My experience of Brad Hinkelman at Casacol is mostly positive. He has a lot of contacts in the city - he know's what's going to be built where, what areas are being prepared for development and what does or doesn't constitute a good investment in the city. Anyone thinking in buying in the city would do well to try to get some time with him. Brad has strong opinions (opinionated might be another word) but he is very professional.

There's a potentially decent third alternative is PADS that is owned by a Brit called Andy Cansdale. Interestingly they focus on both international and domestic buyers and renters. My guess is that most of their business goes to local buyers and as their staff speak english it's an interesting option for people looking to buy.

Although the 'gringo agencies' are easy to criticize the reality is that buying for anyone new to the country isn't easy. Finding a good realtor isn't easy and they don't tend to do much other than show you places that they know of. My experience, even with the best of them, is that you don't get a balanced view. In Medellin, with all of the development going on it's important to have someone that tells you that one of the reasons this apartment is on sale is the the road below (for example Carrera 30) is being widened and that's going to significantly change your living experience.

guestuser
10/22/2016 11:48 EST

@lim I understand what you say but it still doesn't justify your 'sheep' comments.

The issue with Envigado is there's a lot of variation in the zone. Up in the hills there are some (justifiably) very expensive properties. Other parts of Envigado are very different. What I hear from people in Envigado is how bad the traffic is and how long commutes are.

Could appreciation be better in other areas than Poblado? Potentially (at least in
Percentage terms) but equally there are signs that the success of Envigado is beginning to strangle the zone.

In some ways you can see that the lesson has been learnt in the city plan to develop the area from the Golden Mile to Industriales into a high density live/work area.

Actually if people are coming to Medellin for property appreciation (at least in inflation adjusted terms) the honeymoon may be over. The last set of tax changes dragged a lot of young professionals (the sort of people you need to generate demand in areas like Envigado) into paying taxes and the proposed 2017 changes are only going to amplify the problem.

For expats buy in Medellin for a pleasant place to live with a low cost of living and housing at a good price. Getting appreciation, in dollar terms, wherever you buy in the city is a much more questionable proposition.

livinginmedellin
10/22/2016 12:16 EST

If you don't understand "sheep" you haven't seen the attendees of a Live & Invest Oversea conference in Medellín with a ton of retired folks that are taken around by FARM only to properties in El Poblado.

I have actually talked to many of these retired folks at this conference over the past two years and they weren't even aware that substantially cheaper properties are available in other parts of the city as FARM isn't pushing them. I even brought a retired couple to the place I am renting in Sabaneta and when I told them the price to buy it was less than $100k USD they couldn't believe it and they said it was much nicer than several they had been shown in El Poblado for well over $160k.

guestuser
10/22/2016 12:40 EST

It's still pretty disrespectful.

We all have examples of pro or con different areas and of course it's always possible for an apartment in a cheaper area to look better internally than one in a more expensive area.

Perhaps FARM have found that although the prices may be less (or better value) people feel less comfortable in those other areas?

Globally people are also cogniscent that price appreciation has historically always been a safer bet in the 'best areas'. Whether that's going to continue to be true and whether it's true in Medellin going forward remains to be seen, but that doesn't make people 'sheep'.

You don't factor in that for most overseas buyers the biggest question mark around Medellin is and probably will continue to be safety. And, whether or not it is true foreigners visiting the city generally feel safest in El Poblado.

fecherklyn
10/22/2016 18:36 EST

@LIM,

You stated......"Also prices increasing more than 15% in El Poblado is also BS as there are tons of properties for sale in El Poblado". I think that statement needs to be qualified as it is not true in some cases.

I live in a 3 storey condo house in Poblado. Have a look at how many houses (casas) come on to the market in Poblado....only one, or two from time to time, whereas (you are right) there are tons of apartments. This has always surprised me as I would always prefer to live in a house, rather than an apartment. Is there a price difference between hoses and apartments in Poblado.....NO.

fecherklyn
10/22/2016 18:37 EST

"Houses", not "hoses", of course.

timllowe
10/22/2016 18:42 EST

Yes, the market in hoses is pretty flat. ;)

Both building and speculation has cooled considerably in Cali over the past year. It's a good thing, Martha. I would rather have my investments appreciate at a normal rate and not soar on a bubble with experience says will always burst.

fecherklyn
10/22/2016 19:24 EST

Ah timllowe, but WHAT is a normal rate?

If you take into account a current rate of Colombia cost inflation of around 8% (?? I am too lazy to look it up) AND a marginal tax rate of 33% for anyone with a decent salary/pension and/or investment savings....THEN the headline rate of "appreciation" has to look pretty exceptional. I.E. I have some Colombian bond investments offering 12 to 13% which looks crazy when matched against the near zero rates in Europe and the USA. However, by the time you have adjusted this headline rate for Colombian inflation and tax, it becomes a much more modest figure that hardly provides ANY REAL appreciation.

guestuser
10/22/2016 19:30 EST

When I first arrived in Medellin I too was surprised that houses seemed to sell for no more than apartments. That was explained to me as people preferring the security of apartments.

One interesting dynamic is that many houses have been let out to businesses (accountants, dance schools, small mineral companies etc.). I've noticed in the past few months, as more and more office buildings go up that firms are moving from the houses to the new offices. It will be interesting to see if those houses return to residential use or not. The rentals that the houses were getting for business purposes probably exceeded what they would fetch for residential as well.

Further down the road, at least in the areas covered by the city plan houses are something of a threatened species. The push towards high density housing (apartments) will result in houses becoming even rarer. Ultimately the land the houses stand on is going to be more valuable than the house.

On price stability that makes sense. However inflation here is high and that erodes the value of price increases. Unless prices are exceeding inflation one can argue that they see in fact dropping. I think in many areas that's now true. When you think about it if a house is on the market for a year and it doesn't sell - and let's say there is 7% inflation - effectively the property is discounted by 7% from the original listing price.

timllowe
10/22/2016 19:42 EST

You know, I really don't see a heck of a lot of inflation. Prices creep up but not in an obnoxious way. I'm pretty happy with the appreciation of my apartment and the investment apartment my husband has. That's why I'm glad that the market has cooled a little. 6-8% appreciation is much better than 10-12%. Just my personal feelings.

8901
10/22/2016 20:27 EST

I ( like most) have been receiving email solicitations from Holman for I don't know how many years now,...which is all good, nothing wrong with that.

Though I was always suspicious that his prices were (gringo) inflated keeping that in mind I gave him a call about a listing he had that caught my eye.

The price was high and so I asked him if I was not a resident just by possession alone would I be subject to any type of luxury taxation on it ?

He told me he didn't know and immediately wanted to give me the number of an accountant that would charge me $100 USD to answer that.

I told him " An accountant in Colombia is going to charge me a $100USD /hour minimum to answer that one question ! No thanks . Keep the recommendation. chao".

I definitely did not feel this guy had me ...the client's.. best interest at heart and this person would of been obligated to give him some sort of sucker referral fee.

I could be wrong but that was my gut feeling and that was the end of that.

guestuser
10/23/2016 08:23 EST

@tl with all respect just because you 'don't see a heck lot of inflation' doesn't mean it doesn't exist. For the average Colombian the food shortages created by El Niño and the wider increases driven by the fall in the peso have been very significant. As an ex pat, if you've had offshore income that you can access you've been provided with insulation through the fall in the peso so perhaps that's why you've missed it. If nothing else the interest rates that you can get in instruments like bonds (see earlier in the thread) should provide a clue that there's some pretty strong inflation out there or something equally economically unpleasant.

As for being happy with the appreciation of your property investments I'm not sure how in Colombia you accurately judge changes in value. The market seems to me to be far less transparent than say the US or the U.K. You could ask a realtor I guess and get some idea of a valuation, but given how realtors tend to pitch high as they want room for the inevitable Colombian request for a discount is that what it will sell for? Ten per cent isn't unknown as a discount here and that by your figures is a years appreciation. Perhaps another apartment sells in the same building and that can be used as a yardstick? Same size of apartment, same floor (a big differentiator), same level of fit (new kitchen?) or even something as simple as the reported price by the guy at the gate being wrong.

If there is a good way to value property here I'd be interested. For me the only foolproof way is a buyers signature on a sales contract.

BlueSeas
10/23/2016 09:53 EST

The best way to value property (resales) is comp sales (same neighborhood) per foot. That data isn't available for Medellín anywhere I could find. I don't know if asking prices on new construction are negotiable? But that basis is in the thick book at every real estate office. But old sells at a greater discount in Colombia than we are used to seeing. Establishing resale value is difficult. The identical unit 2 floors under ours, has been listed for 6 months now at 30% more than we paid. Normally someone who really wanted to sell would lower the price, but as PL says, they do that over time due to inflation. While suffering the loss of administration and taxes while they wait.

We looked at some of the newer builds in Envigado. Even had a much smaller place there at about the same cost per square meter as our first choice, but the sellers withdrew it from the market, even with a full price offer.

Much of the "new" or almost new construction throughout Medellín priced at about $100,000 USD or less is not built to what a gringo is looking for. They cram 3BR/3BA, and in some cases service quarters, into 90-100 sq meters. It just creates too many small chopped up spaces for gringo tastes. We looked at some in Envigado and they didn't work for us.

I too would prefer a Casa over an Apartment, but we found that a Casa with full ownership of the land, and in liveable condition, much more expensive than apartments anywhere within walking distance to anything. That may be because they had more sq/meters. So we didn't really look at any. On further consideration, unless you are there full time, would it be wise to leave a Casa vacant for long periods of time? I'm not so sure that would work well in the city, maybe out in a gated community. Even in secured apartment buildings I've read about isolated problems here.

WhoaNellie
10/23/2016 10:24 EST

Re inflation in Colombia:

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/colombia/inflation-cpi

"Inflation Rate in Colombia averaged 14.62 percent from 1955 until 2016..."

Of course if you are buying a home primarily to live in and don't care about resale value so much, it's not a big deal...this problem is not isolated to Colombia! We recently sold a home in Memphis, TN that in 15 years appreciated only $15K - that's not even breaking even. With Colombia's inflation averaging almost 15% per year I doubt many property prices keep up with inflation.

guestuser
10/23/2016 10:46 EST

@lim totally agree with you on how the currency move has resulted in most people being underwater over the past few years from their initial dollar or other currency investment. As I said previously relocate to Medellin for a good place to live where the cost of living is low and the price of housing, by global standards, reasonable. Don't come here with a focus on investment returns. There are just too many variables that you can't control.

My thought - although I've got no empirical evidence - is that the amount of money coming in from overseas buyers has dried up some. There's less of a 'story' about Colombia. The last big investment 'opportunity' was the collapse of the peso and the thought that it had overshot. Therefore make money on house and currency appreciation! That story faded as the peso basically flatlined around 3,000. What's the story now?

I did wonder if The NY Times article wasn't at least partly engineered to get things moving again. Personally I thought the choice of the ultra high end property as the focus was a bad idea. I do think that there are retirees who could be persuaded to take a chance on Medellin with purchases in the $100-300k range. $800k+, at that level people have many other choices and that's a lot of property to sell if it doesn't work out.

If nothing else it's a good time to put Medellin into the spotlight. Polls in the US are indicating that (if their candidate of choice doesn't get elected) increasing numbers of Americans are thinking of leaving the US to live elsewhere.

2017 may therefore be the year of a US retiree migration. If you consider them sheep the flock may be about to get larger.

Andresen
10/23/2016 11:03 EST

If the flock gets larger it might just be due to sheer numbers. More and more of the baby boom generation are retiring and looking for a place to settle down.

timllowe
10/23/2016 11:07 EST

Andresen - Yes. I hear the FL and AZ are all full up. ;)

Andresen
10/23/2016 11:21 EST

For the record, my apt is full also so don't send them here. Lol

BlueSeas
10/23/2016 14:48 EST

The NYT article was by an author who seems to be a NYT employee, not a freelancer. So apparently not related to the usual suspects that get international real estate articles posted.

His previous 2 posts, one on Chile and one on Peru, seem to be targeted to those tiring of escaping to the Hamptons looking for something a bit more exotic.

See:

http://www.nytimes.com/by/kevin-brass?action=click&contentCollection=Real%20Estate&module=Byline®ion=Header&pgtype=article

guestuser
10/23/2016 17:35 EST

@bs but Holman managed the writer well didn't he? Focused on Medellin rather than Colombia more generally (and mentioned the price difference to Bogota) and despite other people contributing to the piece was named as the sole contact. The man is a marketing genius...

On the Hampton set I didn't really get that from the article. If that is the focus and having spent a good part of my life working with people like that I don't think there will be much take up. Colombia might be exotic but its too devoid of many of the creature comforts they seek. If nothing else there are no direct flights to Aspen in the winter...

If there is a market in the US for upscale properties here I'd argue it was returning, successful Colombians who have been working in the States. Sell the apartment in Miami and buy something spectacular here..

timllowe
10/23/2016 17:43 EST

Having spent two summers in the Hamptons (researching Fitzgerald, not "summering") I can assure you, it's not exactly a Colombia crowd. ;)

WhoaNellie
10/23/2016 18:07 EST

Colombia is not a "turnkey" solution many wannabe expats are looking for, it's more of a "do it yourself" kind of place...or "sink or swim"...

timllowe
10/23/2016 18:16 EST

Are you suggesting a new show for Bob Villa: This Old Country?

WhoaNellie
10/23/2016 19:07 EST

Ja ja maybe "Home Improvement" with Tim the Tool Man...

timllowe
10/23/2016 19:08 EST

Yeah, I'm thinkin' Bob is already on contract to Havana.

BlueSeas
10/23/2016 21:36 EST

Having flown many corporate flights to Aspen over the years as the pilot, I'm still LOL.

You may be right? The Hampton set might not be interested in Colombia? But they are getting younger and perhaps more adventurous?

I just don't think the article was tailored for close to ordinary expats living on something less than $5000 a month (many much less). But that said, the high rollers, if they come, can only help?

Yes....it was interesting that only Holman had "contact" billing. Unfortunate?

guestuser
10/23/2016 22:28 EST

I don't think that Holman being the sole contact was expected.

Still don't see high rollers coming. If nothing else the tax issues that get discussed on here would be magnified for the Hampton set. There are plenty of other places, including those with tax treaties that would make a lot more sense for high rollers.

As for flying into Aspen that's not easy or for the faint hearted I believe? Fast descent at a high altitude?

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