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HGQ2112
  8/14/2009 23:36 EST

SouthernLedger
Ecuador wants citizen committees to defend gov't
By JEANNETH VALDIVIESO
Published: Aug 14, 2009 00:39:49 UTC

QUITO, Ecuador (AP) — Ecuador wants to create local citizen committees that would defend the government and its "revolution" — sparking criticism that the president aims to control opponents in a system reminiscent of Cuba or Venezuela.

Citizen Participation Minister Doris Soliz told Ecuador TV on Thursday that local citizen groups are needed to defend against coups like the one that recently deposed Honduran President Manuel Zelaya, or against outside agitators, noting U.S. military plans to use Colombian bases.

"The great challenge in this new phase of the revolution is to create in each home a revolutionary committee, in each neighborhood a committee to defend the national government ... and to prepare for those who wish to destabilize us," President Rafael Correa said during his inauguration Monday to a second, four-year term.

Neither Correa nor Soliz provided details on how the committees would be governed or exactly what they would do, though Soliz said they would not be armed.

Critics say the neighborhood groups could evolve into Cuban-style community groups used to monitor and repress "counterrevolutionary" activities.

Venezuela has "communal councils" that decide how to spend government funds for community projects. President Hugo Chavez tried to give the groups intelligence-gathering duties last year, though he later withdrew his decree under protest from critics.

"What they want to do is control us in our neighborhoods, in our families, to know what we are doing and thinking to throw us in prison," said Lucio Gutierrez, former Ecuadorean president and an opposition candidate who lost to Correa in April.

Gutierrez said he will promote "democracy" and "liberty" committees to oppose Correa's neighborhood groups.

Attribution: http://www.southernledger.com/Ecuador_wants_citizen_committees_to_defend_gov%27t

Eerily reminiscent in general nature to Castro's Cuban Revolutionary Council Committees. It will be interesting to see if the direction taken by these "committees" is focused on social development, external threat militia training, or domestic community policing and espionage. The first two would concern me much less than the latter. It should also be noted that within the context of yet another U.S. military build up (Colombia), it becomes much more difficult to gauge the potentially "ominous nature" of these Committees. If these events were happening in a vacuum, with no perceived external threat, I would show a high degree of concern with regard to these "committees". However, with a clear regional threat, it might just be the Ecuadorian equivalent of raising a citizen's militia to augment military forces, which, fwiw, is a stated component of the U.S. Constitution - a completely ignored stated component, but one nonetheless. Still, on the heels of the relatively new financial reporting requirements, issues with media regulations unresolved, and, now, the committees, I was forced to downgrade Ecuador from "moderate risk" to"high risk" for my clients today. I continue to rate it a "buy", but only for high risk tolerance clients. No sovereign nation should be enslaved by foreign capital, but, likewise, no sovereign nation should allow Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) to dwindle to a trickle. I fear the latter could happen rather quickly in Ecuador, if Correa does not tread more carefully in pushing his reforms.

JP55301
  8/15/2009 00:59 EST

I don't want to get into a debate but I feel its my duty to comment on this.
I don't know what must happen to you for you to see the reality of what is happening in Ecuador's government. There is only one reason that these neighborhoods watch are established and that is to report others to the government! The horrible part of that is once someone turns you in for whatever reason you are put on a subversive list and could be arrested or imprisioned. Look at the history of these committees as established by Castro and others. Even though they claim they are there for other reasons they only exist to watch the population and inform the government of any neighbor activities they steem suspicious or negative talk against the government! This is Castro's major tool. Sons turning in father's, husbands turn in wives, sisters and brothers and the worse is they are accused of being against the goverment and shot in many cases . That is how powerful these groups are. Families are afraid to talk to each other. Can you imagine any arm more powerful than this? Read the stories of Cubans that arrive by boat here in Miami daily. They made the trip w/o telling thier wife or brothers afraid they would turn them in.
And there is nothing needed to manage these groups and they are not armed except with a sharp tongue and a total unreasonable commitment to the regime.
I see you are very idealistic and this may obscure your vision to the reality. I hope for your benefit and above all for your clients that you will see light and advice them accordingly as you claim you have already done. I wish this wasn't happening because Ecuador is a great place but unfortunately as another member said in his posting Correa may be killing the golden goose at a time the country needs more than ever influx of foreign capital.

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HGQ2112
  8/16/2009 14:46 EST

I respect and appreciate your strong opinions. I don't think there is anything wrong with our having a "debate" [your word] or "discussion" [my word] on this, or any, topic, since discourse and the sharing of varying opinions is part of the value to be gleaned from public forums. I admire your strong convictions to principles that seemed to be focused on freedom and democracy. I share those principles. I also must admit to being slightly envious that you can afford such strong emotional convictions. You see, I cannot. The reason I have been as highly successful as I have been for 26-years in my industry is
that my clients have come to expect fact-based analysis and not conjectured opinion. The two are not the same. Where you see Correa as the "next Castro", all I can do is inform of certain activity that bears watching. While you can jump to conclusions as to exactly what these "Committees" will likely evolve into at some point in the future, I am compelled to acknowledge the reality that they haven't even been truly "born" yet and therefore where they will go is inconclusive for now. I must also further acknowledge that I can make just as strong a case that these Committees will have a social/community participation function, to make Ecuadorian's feel that they have a direct stake in their communities, at precisely a time when economic realities remain challenging, as I can that they are "Castro-like" community spy networks and organs of intimidation. Likewise, I can also make a similarly strong case that these committees will evolve into being used as para-military militia to augment the professional military in defending Ecuador, from the real or imagined threat posed by Colombia and the U.S. military presence on Colombian sovereign soil. Possibilities I can posture, conclusions...much too early to be reached. The events bear watching, so I posted to the forum. Emotional conclusions and alarmist recommendations to my clients are not a luxury I can afford. However, to each who reads this, I can only hope they will reach the conclusions that fit their lifestyles - whether emotionally or objectively derived.

JP55301
  8/16/2009 17:27 EST

All I can say is for someone living outside of Ecuador you seem to have very priviliged info on the goverment activities.
I don't even want to have a discussion (as you say) since I don't have the time or inclination but I do want to clear a couple of things you say. First I have never said Correa is the next Castro, that is your words.
I did comment that the citizen groups are being formed to act as a spy network for the government and mentioned the history of these groups in Venezuela and Cuba. By the way Obama is also forming them in the US. And Pelosi is already accusing the people of being UNAMERICANS for expressing their views.
If as you say your clients love your facts based analysis I would think based in the history of these groups it would be more probable they will become, as others have, a spy network for the government especially when Correa himself stated there is a move to oust him just like in Honduras. Your speculation of them becoming an armed militia group to defend against a Colombia military attack is ludicrous. COME ON BE REALISTIC! These are groups of citizens composed of teenagers, old women and men, and your average citizen.
You seem to always be on the fence claiming that we have to wait to see if some unrealistic development will happen.
Ask the family of persons that took that position in Venezuela and Cuba what happened to them. It was only the one's that saw what was coming and got out that were saved.
All I can say its that since your first posting defending w/o facts the Ecuadorian government now you evolved to advicing your clients that Ecuadorian investments are only recommended for the high risk individuals. So I'm happy to see that you have come a long way and are beginning to see light and the impending danger in owning property in Ecuador with the present government.

HGQ2112
  8/16/2009 18:21 EST

My info...isn't so much "privileged" as it is expensive...lol. Really, my firm spends an obscene amount of money on information gathering. We owe it to our clients. So...I gather a great deal of data to analyze. Note, however, that most of what I cite is readily available on the Internet, because I want folks to be able to access the data directly, read for themselves and reach their own conclusions. I also apologize that you believe there could be a misperception as to your statements. You are quite right and I want to make very clear that you *never* said the exact phrase "Correa is the next Castro". I did not provide quotes around that statement and did not think anyone would directly attribute this to you as a quote. I was merely paraphrasing *my* understanding of what you have presented, when you have repeatedly "warned" folks to look at Castro, Chavez and Correa as being of the same ilk. I, as you know, see them as three very distinct politicos. I won't comment on the U.S. stuff too much, because this is an Ecuador forum, but there are "community activities" presently in the U.S. and, certainly, in the past (especially in my home town of Chicago) which also have eerie parallels to what is happening in Ecuador. This makes me curious...would you label the U.S. as "Socialist" for this? Would you recommend that FDI be terminated in the U.S. for prudent parties? If not, why the difference in observations, when you acknowledge some similarities in events? Just curious, not being "confrontational". As for their use of a militia - yeah...pretty rag tag. Most militias are. They *are* often composed of teenagers and old men as you state. How is this "ludicrous" as you've characterized it? History is replete with examples of just that - rag tag citizens' militias. Makes perfect sense in Ecuador if you looked at the military data I provided in the...dramatic pause..."other thread". Honestly, I do not mean to disrespect the fine Ecuadorian military men and women, but both quantitatively and qualitatively they probably are not a good match for a conflict with Colombian armed forces. That's even without U.S. "military advisers" (remember Vietnam?), which we are now apparently calling "drug interdiction forces" (ahem...ummm...right). Also, I wouldn't characterize my position as "...waiting for...unrealistic events...", rather as waiting for proof. For example, I don't believe that it is "unrealistic" to believe that if these Ecuadorian Citizens Committees were to devolve into Cuba-like quasi-policing bodies that we would see people thrown in jail after unbased accusations. Yes...I *am* waiting to see things like that. I just want to make sure these "Committees" perform such heinous acts, as opposed to say...planting a community flower garden, with government approval of course, as part of a well orchestrated government campaign to have them forget that the "promised jobs" may not quite be there yet. Huge difference...flowers...versus the falsely imprisoned. And...I don't have to ask the families of those that endured the travesties of dictatorships such as the one in Cuba...since...well...I am Cuban... U.S.-born Cuban. Put the pieces together. And do you know why the #1 reason Castro rose to power, besides the complete and utter lack of U.S. action - misinformation. The people believed they were trading the current dictator, Batista, for a "savior"...not an even more "thorough" dictator. Part of why I am so passionate about "facts". That quest for facts is precisely why, other than the aforementioned downgrade, my posture on these complicated issues has remained very consistent.

lallen8220
  8/17/2009 15:01 EST

I'll start out by saying that I could just be very naive. And when I read about these Citizen Committees it did give me pause. But I've spent a lot of time in Ecuador over the past 6 years (married an Ecuadorian) and now live here. I've been in almost every part of the country and met people from various walks of life with various economic privileges. If people don't actively like Correa, they have to admit that he is doing things for the people - repairing the infrastructure, the emphasis on education, cleaning up corruption in various gov't agencies. However, the Ecuadorian people in general do not strike me as ripe to become spies against their neighbors. Even my husband, who is an active Correa supporter, would never act against friends and family. In my experience, Ecuadorians get more up in arms when they feel the government is ignoring them or not solving their problems. They are also very cynical about politics in general.

Frankly, I think Correa is more popular now than he was when he first ran for office. I hope he doesn't shoot himself in the foot by trying to enforce unpopular measures, as he has the potential to do a lot of good - as well as the potential to do a lot of harm. I might have a different opinion after I've lived here a year, but as of now, I can't see these community organizations taking off, unless they are going to do some good for the people.

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reemiles
  8/18/2009 16:35 EST

lallen 8220..My hat's off to you. Perhaps we are also naive (a strong Canadian trait) but after living in Ecuador for 1 year now, we share your views. In our experience, the majority of expats living here are not unduly alarmed about a potential erosion of our individual rights resulting from an Orwellian citizen spy network. We feel the conversation thread on this topic has been dominated by rather extremist viewpoints by folks who appear not to actually live in Ecuador.

We feel that Presidente Correa has already had huge impact on the evolving history of this country. We agree that the people seem to love him. The shift of power from a landed elite to a true people-based governance model appears to be taking solid root. Time will tell, but we are optimistic that this will be accomplished without a Honduras style pushback from the "old guard".

Another discussion could easily center around the term "socialist" which has been a red flag expression used by one of this forums contributors. Perhaps another time.

So, to any readers considering moving to this beautiful country and it's incredibly warm and vibrant society , come on down and have a look for yourself. Meet with local expats and get input from those folks who actually live here.

HGQ2112
  8/19/2009 13:36 EST

lallen8220 - I liked what you wrote. I've tried to be as objective and factual as possible - sort of an occupational hazard. I hope none of my comments are viewed as "anti-Correa" or "Pro-Correa" for that matter. I happen to think that his political ideology, as it transforms from thought to practical policy, is still evolving. He has many decisions to make and one can only hope he makes the one's that truly serve the best interest of the Ecuadorian people over the long run. I will offer only one further observation on your comments. I, too, share your optimism that the Ecuadorian people would never betray their brethern and their communities by establishing "spy networks" against each other. I do wonder, however, if the Cuban people once viewed themselves the same way, before the betrayals they committed, in the name of "saving" their own families. However, in the end, whether one speaks of Ecuador or Cuba, doesn't the greatest betrayal of trust and faith placed occur, not when the public practices it, but when they are "asked" to commit the betrayal in the first place? Better to stop the possibility, before anyone ever has to make such decisions. As for how it will evolve in Ecuador...much too early to sound the alarm...but also too early to ignore developments.

HGQ2112
  8/19/2009 13:49 EST

reemiles - also enjoyed your comments. Again, I hope that nothing I've posted has been misinterpreted as an attempt to be "extremist", since I am plagued by the need to seek only facts. Having last been to Ecuador in early July 2009, I can affirm that few within the country, expats or native Ecuadorians, seem overtly concerned about any of the recent developments. Is there "pro and con" talk? Sure...like any political debate in any country. I do believe you are quite right when you suggest that an alarmist approach is incorrect. I also believe you are quite right when you suggest that visiting Ecuador for a first-hand opinion, where possible, is the best option. The only issue I will quibble with is your use of "Orwellian" as an adjective. To some, like me, Orwell's writings are extremely prophetic. However, others use the adjective to "discredit" a view as excessively "dire". I would suggest that in the latter context, I cannot concur that watching and waiting to see how the Ecuadorian "Citizens Committees" evolve is "Orwellian". Not when you have a real world factual example in Cuba as to how similar "Citizens Committees" were subverted and perverted for extreme uses and not when Correa chooses to couch his rhetoric on the Committees in language so reminiscent of Castro. By no means am I suggesting that such Committees will evolve in Ecuador as they did in Cuba - there is *zero* proof presently to suggest this. However, I do not think it "Orwellian" [negative connotation] to be vigil.

reemiles
  8/19/2009 16:13 EST

HGQ2112...Apparently the way I used the term "Orwellian" was open to misinterpretation. I was simply trying to say that, in my opinion, most expats in Ecuador are not too concerned about these citizen's committees ultimately becoming the kind of nightmare prophesied by Orwell. Hence "Orwellian". I agree with you about maintaining diligence and awareness. That is only prudent.

suspirar
  8/19/2009 20:51 EST

HGQ, I just sent you a private message. Originally, when you talked of rating Ecuador, I thought you were talking about rating bonds issued by the Ecuadorian government, which had me concerned. However, now I think you were referring to purchasing Ecuadorian residential real estate, so I feel better.

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HGQ2112
  8/19/2009 21:09 EST

The only two items I have referenced that you could be referring to are my downgrade of Ecuador to high risk from moderate risk (still rated a "buy") and that was solely a "side reference" to my business which is real estate investment consulting. I did mention Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) in response to what I interpreted was someone else's statements that "no one" should be investing in Ecuador. No mention of bonds, but for anyone with an interest, either Moody's or Fitch's are reasonable and reliable sources for bond ratings.

HGQ2112
  8/19/2009 22:16 EST

Here are two more recent press articles referencing the new "Citizens Committees". Both are in Spanish. I summarize the general gist in English after each.

Hay centenares de comités en defensa de la revolución: Soliz
La Secretaria de Pueblos dice que el modelo no tiene que ser copiado de Cuba o Venezuela. Habla de amenazas externas.

Agosto 18, 2009
El Comercio

La secretaria de Pueblos, Movimientos Sociales y Participación, Doris Soliz, dijo ayer que la conformación de los Comités de Defensa de la Revolución Ciudadana (CDRC) no tienen por qué copiar modelos aplicados en otros países.
6 elecciones ha ganado con amplitud PAIS. Su base de apoyo ciudadano es amplia y organizada.

Esto, en clara referencia a las comparaciones con esquemas de vigilancia que operan en Cuba y Venezuela y que, en los últimos días, han sido motivo de alerta para sectores críticos al Gobierno. La razón: la posibilidad de que a través de los CDRC se coarten libertades individuales, y se atice un clima de intolerancia.

El pasado 10 de agosto, día en que el presidente Rafael Correa asumió su segundo mandato, se anunció la creación de estos comités. Según lo ha explicado el propio Mandatario, la idea es potencializar la estructura ciudadana, que durante las últimas seis elecciones ha beneficiado a las bases políticas de Alianza País. En ese sentido, estas bases no deberán operar únicamente en época de elecciones sino que servirán para proteger a “la democracia”.

En una entrevista con Ecuadoradio, ayer por la mañana, Doris Soliz aseguró que las manifestaciones democráticas que Ecuador ha dado tantas veces, son un ejemplo más que evidente de que se puede pensar en un modelo propio.

Uno de los principales compromisos que, por ejemplo, debieran tener los CDRC es defender al país de amenazas de desestabilización que provienen de sectores externos. Es decir, evitar un escenario como el de Honduras.

En ese sentido, habló de los dos pilares sobre los cuales descansa esta idea de organización. El primero opera desde su entidad, la Secretaría de los Pueblos, y que se orienta en lo que Soliz denomina construcción de ciudadanía.

El tema de la organización y estructura de los comités, por lo tanto, sería una tarea directa del Movimiento País. De allí que Soliz aseguró que el ministro de Coordinación Política, Ricardo Patiño, es quien tiene una agenda sobre estos procesos. Según Soliz existen “centenares” de comités barriales de defensa de la revolución ciudadana que funcionan en ciudades como Guayaquil y Quito.

El anuncio de los CDRC ha generado reacciones. El asambleísta Andrés Páez (ID) dijo que se trata de un proyecto inconveniente. “Con estas estructuras se lesionará gravemente la integridad nacional..., se generará un estado de permanente tensión y confrontación.

Por su parte, el MPD señaló que estos comités no deben ser encargados únicamente de la defensa del Gobierno sino que deben servir para vigilar el cabal cumplimiento de la Constitución.

http://www.elcomercio.com/noticiaEC.asp?id_noticia=298359&id_seccion=3

The gist was that the Correa Administration was trying to distance itself from attacks leveled by opposition forces that the Ecuadorian Citizen Committees would take on Venezuelan or Cuban characteristics, with regard to similar bodies formed in the two respective countries. An emphasis is placed on Ecuadorian Committees following a third way and having no need to "copy" either Venezuela or Cuba. The Correa administration did reassert that a civil defense role against external threats (language suggesting, at least, a quasi-militia role [my interpretation]) was an intended role for the Committees. However, in the very next breath, the example cited was "...to avoid a scenario like that in Honduras..." Editorializing, this confuses me, since the Honduras threat has not been proven to be external, but rather an internal coup by the Honduras military. Is the Correa Administration suggesting that the citizens should form a militia to counter an internal military uprising...or to quell internal political opposition? The article is vague and the comments from the Correa administration, *as attributed by the source* appear vague and contradictory.


Comités de defensa de la revolución divide criterios

2009-08-18
El Mercurio

La conformación de los Comités de Defensa de la “Revolución” anunciados por el presidente Rafael Correa al asumir el segundo mandato ha abierto una nueva polémica. Mientras los sectores del oficialismo aseguran que la idea gubernamental pretende fortalecer la estructura organizativa del partido, los grupos de oposición advierten que el objetivo real es perseguir a quienes piensan diferente al régimen.

María Cecilia Alvarado, concejal de Cuenca por el movimiento PAIS recuerda que los comités se integraron hace un par de años y que por esa iniciativa ganaron las elecciones. Descarta que en algún momento pueda servir para el control político o ciudadano, lo defiende como un proceso de organización. “Nosotros somos un movimiento ciudadano, no gremial, no sectorial, en el movimiento confluimos jóvenes, mujeres, profesionales, ambientalistas, amas de casa, pero no defendemos los intereses de un solo gremio”. En la misma línea, Oswaldo Larriva, director provincial del movimiento PAIS afirma que los comités permitirán que el proceso de revolución se radicalice en la parte social. El presidente de la Asamblea, Fernando Cordero ha manifestado que en el Azuay se estructuraron, para la campaña electoral anterior, unos 13.000 comités familiares.

Para John Delgado, dirigente de la Unión Demócrata Cristiana (UDC).-partido de derecha- es peligroso que se conformen dichos comités a los que califica como “fuerzas de choque” que enfrentarán y silenciarán a las personas que no están de acuerdo con el pensamiento del gobierno. Delgado no cree en el argumento de que el fin de los comités sea el fortalecimiento de la organización política, dice que eso debería ser al interior del movimiento y que no habría razón para armar células a nivel nacional.

Lamenta que esa iniciativa aleja al país del camino de la concertación y, al contrario, lo lleve hacia una polarización marcada por actos de violencia similar a lo que ocurre en Venezuela. “La violencia crece días tras día y con estas organizaciones habrá más violencia sobre todo con aquellos sectores que no piensan como el gobierno”, expresa el dirigente de la fleche verde. (DMS)

http://www.elmercurio.com.ec/web/titulares.php?seccion=xJoURMC&codigo=zas2ytXHxY&nuevo_mes=08&nuevo_ano=2009&dias=18¬icias=2009-08-18

The gist of this article, again referencing the Citizens Committees, seems to focus on their role as a community extension of the PAIS political party. Closest thing I could reference would be an "over-energized political Precinct Captain" system like that found in various cities across the United States. Note that the chief source of this artccile differs from the chief source of the El Comercio article and seems to spin an even more "harmless" utilization of Citizens Committees, going as far as to suggest that they are little more than an extension of the grassroots political movement that is already in place and has propelled PAIS to success in Ecuador. An opposition party representative refers to these Committees as having the potential to "...confront and silence people who do not agree with government thinking..." All I will add is that even if you look at these two statements, in two different press organs, there is much confusion and contradiction as to what the primary intended role for these Citizens Committees will be. This does not make them "bad"...in fact, depending on their structure, they might be used to raise civic responsibility and accomplish community good will projects. However, for the criticism to end, the Correa administration, especially President Correa, himself, needs to better publicly clarify and define the intended role of these Committees.

HGQ2112
  8/19/2009 22:24 EST

To suspirar - you referenced a "private message". I received nothing via email or on the message center of this forum site. Please send again.

suspirar
  8/19/2009 22:38 EST

I just sent you the private message again. If you don't get it, that's okay. I thought that your ratings of "buy" and "high risk" were referring to bonds or business investments, so my message really has little value to you.

JP55301
  8/21/2009 23:17 EST

For those of you that have taken these citizens watch groups lightly I would recommend that you pay close attention to their development and make sure you are careful how you express yourself about the government and who you talk to. If you get turned in and put into a black list you will be labeled a contra and as a minimum you will go through a very uncomfortable investigation and thereafter you will be watched closely
I happen to have first hand information living in Miami and watching the spanish news that shows the actual videos of persons expressing themselves on this topic.
In Today's news there was a video of Mr Lucio Gutierrez Ecuadors past president ( I don't know if he was good bad or indifferent) expressing his concern that these watch groups are nothing more than a copy of the very effective spy groups instituted by Castro and being used today in other countries.
Then there was President Correa stating "there are small rich groups in the country that want to topple the government and I need the people to watch and report to the government". And finally the large group of Ecuadorian immigrants in Miami took to the street to protest these groups stating that they are spy groups. I know that if you live there you are not that informed as the people looking in from outside but if you look at this together with other red flags lsent by Correa like the world assetts disclosure to to the Ecuadorian SRI (IRS), changes in the visa extensions and now you could go to jail if you fail to register your employee, even if it was because of filing the incorrect document, I would say that its time to start paying attention to the political moves.

Its not a matter of the Ecuadorian citizens not being ready to turn on each other, its a matter of a strong belief in a political party. Already in the news they show a video of some random citizens being questioned on the subject and the answer was they stand behind their leader and do whatever it takes! Look at religion in the middle east. look at the inquisition in the catholic religion. Its a matter of becoming a fanatic of a cause. Don't understimate the power of this.
I'm not saying to panic but to be aware and careful and always be ahead of the curve. Some have a very idealistic position and have shoved this to the side saying it can only be good. I respect your opinion but for your own good be more proactive and watch the news carefully and what is happening in the country. Remember laws can changed from one day to the next and can catch you off guard!
When you see the ex-president speaking, the Ecuadorian immigrants at unrest because of these watch groups and the actual president saying he believes there is a small rich group in the country that wishes to topple his government and he needs to form these groups for protection I believe its time to be careful and wide awake!.

HGQ2112
  8/24/2009 13:33 EST

Another update...and...to me...the most "chilling" statement yet on the Citizens Committees to come from a Correa administration official. Gist translated to English, after article, as per usual (Spanish source).

Vicepresidente defendió creación de Comités
La Hora
23 de Agosto de 2009

Tras asegurar que el tema ha sido “manoseado” en los últimos días, el Vicepresidente de la República, Lenin Moreno, defendió la creación de los llamados Comités de Defensa de la Revolución Ciudadana (CDRC).

Esos grupos “servirán para vigilar la honestidad, el cumplimiento de los derechos humanos, la seguridad, la salud, la calidad de la educación y la defensa de la libertad de expresión bien concebida”, agregó en el informe sabatino de labores del Gobierno.

Agregó que los CDRC no defenderán al Gobierno ni tampoco se asemejarán a los comités de otros países como los de Cuba y Venezuela.

Dijo que estos conglomerados deben ser entendidos como “organismos barriales” en los que pueden participar todos los ecuatorianos que busquen luchar por la democracia y “las conquistas de la revolución para reinstitucionalizar el Estado”.

Un enlace diferente
El Vicepresidente aprovechó el informe sabatino para hacer un recuento de los proyectos sociales sobre discapacidades y buen humor que lleva adelante la Vicepresidencia.

También hizo un breve recuento de las actividades presidenciales de esta semana, en la que la mayor parte de las ocupaciones de Correa han sido privadas.

‘Correa no está de vacaciones’
La Presidencia de la República, a través del secretario de Comunicación, Fernando Alvarado, rechazó y desmintió ayer las declaraciones del embajador cubano Universi Zambrano, quien aseveró que el presidente Correa se encuentra de vacaciones. Según el funcionario, el Jefe de Estado fue a Cuba a realizarse un chequeo médico.

Attribution: http://www.lahora.com.ec/frontEnd/main.php?idSeccion=921833

The gist of the article begins with Ecuadorian Vice President, Lenin Moreno, defending the Citizens Committees concept and suggesting that much "manipulation" with regard to the role of the Committees has been promoted of late (Commentary mine: Probably a reference to recent public critique from a political opponent). Moreno goes on to assert the list of activities that such Committees would engage in, with the usual statements, already discussed, that could have the Committees conjectured to be para-military militias, community service organs, or even human rights watch dogs. However, Moreno closes his list of possible Committee activities with this phrase: "....and the defense of the freedom for well-conceived expression."

Commentary: Who is to determine what constitutes "well-conceived expression"? According to the article, public money would not be used to run the Committees, so one has to presume that they will be run by campaign funds from PAIS (get it...that "ain't" public dough, even though, it is contributed by some members of the public). So...does that mean that PAIS representatives are going to determine what is "well-conceived expression"? What if in 4 years, another political party reaches a majority or takes the Presidency? Are PAIS supporters going to be comfortable with these Committees, if they should be allowed to continue, if another political party is defining what is "well conceived expression"? This gets pretty dicey...splitting those hairs. Might even seem a bit "Orwellian" to coin a phrase introduced in another thread. The Ecuadorian people and those considering an investment in Ecuador would do well to understand the mechanism by which "well-conceived expression" will be categorized. I think the broad-base activities defined by Moreno for the Committees will also run afoul of human nature. No matter how well-intended in origin, that's an awful lot of responsibility and power to place in local organizations and their leaders, without a clear supervisory structure (at least none has been publicly announced). Even with the best of intentions, can anyone else see the potential for abuse? How will PAIS deal with that. What if a local Committee becomes a power-base clique that no longer wants to comply with PAIS directives, especially if they play a para-military role? What will be the government response? I can't help but wonder if Correa isn't playing with fire and creating the very destabilizing source against his own government that he seems so bent on avoiding? Perhaps, Correa wakes up one day and finds that his Committee leaders no longer feel he has moved fast enough to the left (or right...or center...or whatever) and have other ideas about national leadership. What then? Remember the famous quote: "Et tu, Brutus?"

suspirar
  8/24/2009 15:36 EST

My friend, if you're going to move to Ecuador, you might as well get used to the political situation and find ways to sympathize with the current government. I doubt that there is anything that you can do to change what is going on. You can't change the Ecuadorian government or the Ecuadorian people, but you can change how you think about the situation.

Much of the uproar over the government (including the president's threats against the media) already occurred months ago, and I think most expats in Ecuador have adjusted mentally to accept the way things are.

HGQ2112
  8/24/2009 16:12 EST

Even within strictly an Ecuadorian historical context, whether recent or long-term history, I am not sure I can concur with about 50% of what I *interpret* you suggest. I'll grant you that the seeds of what is being discussed now were planted "long ago" (if one can call a couple of years "long ago"), but they are all very much in a state of evolution and flux. It's that evolution and the direction it may, or may not, take, that I suggest the Ecuadorian people and those considering Ecuador, should monitor. The fact that the Ecuadorian people may have "adjusted" (some better than others) to current political policy realities and are amenable to the changes, does not logically suppose (or predispose) that they might be as accepting of possible evolutions that come from what has already been accepted. As for the rest, you seem to ascribe the hint of a foregone "permanency" to current Ecuadorian politics that has not been supported by past historical fact. I'll believe something has substantively changed, when I can measure that substantive change over a reasonable period of time. I think the Correa administration has hit the nail on the head with some political positions, such as the U.S. military base issue and caution over Colombia, but in terms of the "media licensing" issue and the issue of "Citizens Committees", I am not sure that a prudent politician like Correa might not revisit those issues as they continue to evolve. Especially if his goal is to truly bring some consistent political stability and continuity to the Ecuadorian people.

JP55301
  8/24/2009 17:28 EST

I assume your friend is in reference to HGQ and if it is I can't agree with him more. He provides a service many forum's would be proud of and I'm happy he is here.

Having said that I would like to respond to your comments, Even though it may be you personal opinion , which I respect, there is no truth to the fact that anyone needs to symphatize with the government or get used to the political situation in order to live there. As a matter of fact I know of Ecuadorian citizens living there which are very CONCERNED of what is happening politically in their country!

I agree there is very little an individual can do to change the government but don't understimate the power of a nation if they perceive things not going well politically. Look what just happened in Honduras! A socialist president tried to force an unconstitutional law and he was ousted by the congress in the name of the people. Its a lesson in democracy!

I don't think any expats pretend to change the government or Ecuadorian people but they surely are entitled to the correct information of what is happening in the country politically, not to change the way they think about it, so they can have the knowledge to analyze how this may affect them (positively or negatively) and then take whatever decision they feel adequate for their personal situation.

You keep talking about mental adjustments when it has nothing to do with that at all. Each one of us can adjust all they want mentally but that will not stop the neighborhood watch organizations or the press containment or whatever else they decide to change and the consequences these changes may bring upon each one of us individually.

Its all about getting educated to the reality of the present political changes and then each one of us conducting an analisis of worst and best case scenarios and deciding on doing what is best for us individually.

So even though we appreciate your advise, that some of us disagree with, be aware that's your personal opinion and we respect it but thanks no thanks!

In closing I would like to ask you on what are you basing your staetment that says " I think most expats in Ecuador have adjusted mentally to accept the way things are.
Are you implying most expats just look the other way and are not involved in their new community by evaluating the changes and possible consequences they may have on the community or them individually?

carolannemck
  8/24/2009 17:56 EST

I think it is naive on anyone's part to not be fully informed and cognizant of what is going on in a country where one lives. Ignoring and accepting things which are quite right has a way of getting people in deep trouble. There is a poem written by Martin Niemoller, a Lutheran pastor, during the Nazi occupation called First They Came...
"In Germany the Nazis came for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionist
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me, and by that time,
there was no one left to speak up for me."

History gives us a lot of evidence that ignoring something can have potentially devastating consequences.

Information is power.

HGQ2112
  8/25/2009 12:22 EST

carolannemck - I have to agree with you. I don't believe viewing issues from different perspectives can ever hurt, especially when folks are making important decisions like overseas investments or the even more significant move of overseas relocation. Ecuador is going through some dynamic times, with possible significant changes and having perspective on that I think is critical for anyone looking to live or invest there.

HGQ2112
  8/25/2009 13:05 EST

Another update...and the most enlightening, in a peculiar and subtle sort of way. Yep...Spanish again, so I will summarize the brief gist in English and mention immediately that this is an excerpt, as published (not mine) by source, of a recent radio dialog. The full audio dialog, along with quoted text, is available at the site which is listed for attribution.

El Universo
Lunes 24 de agosto del 2009

Asambleísta Gagliardo desmiente rumores de comités ciudadanos

El legislador por Acuerdo PAIS Gastón Gagliardo señaló que no hay que satanizar el tema, ya que se trata de organización.

El asambleísta de la provincia del Guayas aclaró esta mañana que el rol de los comités ciudadanos no será el estar armado ni que se vaya a sacar al vecino que hable mal de Gobierno, que le van a dar garrote.

"No debe alarmarse la ciudadanía... no tiene por qué preocuparse", dijo Gagliardo a Citynoticias (89.3 FM en Guayaquil). Agregó que hay que esperar las directrices del buró nacional de PAIS, que es el que adoptará una sola política a nivel nacional.

A las 08:00 se reunirá el consejo político al que pertenece para seguir desarrollando lineamientos, indicó.

Attribution: http://www.eluniverso.com/2009/08/24/1/1355/asambleista-gagliardo-desmiente-rumores-comites-ciudadanos.html?p=1355&m=861

The gist of the article is that PAIS Assembly member, Gastón Gagliardo, was trying to allay concerns over the Citizens Committees. During the very recent radio interview, with 89.3 FM, Guayaquil, Gagliardo wanted to assert that "...citizens should not be alarmed or worried" about Committee developments. He went on to suggest that local Committees would work under the auspices of the PAIS national party umbrella. In fact, he shed some light, by suggesting that there would be a meeting today of the PAIS political council to discuss the procedure, structure and implementation of the Committees. Perhaps this might mean some clarification for everyone (commentary mine). However, what I found intriguing was this statement, from Gagliardo, "The role of the Citizens Committees will not be an armed one, nor will they drag out a neighbor who speaks ill of the government."

Commentary: While I can take some comfort from assurances that people won't be dragged into the streets, I take great concerns from the contradictions within PAIS as to the role of these Committees. I understand that Correa is absent on medical leave in Cuba, but one cannot allow their party to just randomly blurt out things. The day before yesterday (I've quoted in this thread) we have the nation's Vice President claim that one of the intended roles of the Citizens Committee could be an armed one, in front of a public crowd, with direct press presence. Yesterday, we have a PAIS assemblyman contradict that very statement, on a broadcast radio conversation, by stating that the role would *not* be an armed one. So, which is it? Who speaks for PAIS? I have debated against perceptions of Correa as a Chavez or Castro "puppet", because I see him as too much of an individualist and leader, to ever allow himself to be led about by the nose. I don't see this trait in his persona - one man's opinion. So, therefore, he needs to step up...be a leader...and take personal ownership of this issue and reign in the PAIS party statements. All they are doing is causing confusion, which, at least for me, raises concerns. The concerns are - you pick 'em - a lack of leadership on the issue, or a willful attempt to mask the direction of the Committees. Otherwise, how do you rationalize two senior members of PAIS contradicting each other within a span of 24 hours? Furthermore, it feeds into my worst-case scenario, of these Committees evolving with little firm structure, based on the opinions of local Committee leaders. So, in one region of Ecuador, they become armed militia, in another region of Ecuador they become human rights watchdogs. Some might say, so what? The "so what" is that this doesn't strengthen the PAIS political presence, it weakens it and has the potential to cede authority to local power blocs. That hasn't always turned out well, in a historical context, for political leaders. Correa needs to take ownership and well-define the Citizens Committees...and the people of Ecuador, and those looking at it as an investment option, should expect no less. Be ever vigil.

JP55301
  8/25/2009 20:29 EST

HGQ I couldn't agree with you and Carola any more! You guys are right on! Carola has said something so true that it needs to be read 2 and 3 times.

There is a radio talk host in the US that has been banned out of England for expressing the truth and he says to other talk host that have not defended him that eventually they will come for them. Same thruth Carola so well has expressed!

HGQ keep informing us of what's is happening.

By the way to those of you that keep saying that all that Correa does its for the benefit of his people I would ask why does he go to Cuba to get medical attention with all his family and get photograhed with the biggest violator of basic human rights of modern history, Fidel Castro. Does he not believe in the Doctors in his country? Does he have to go to the country where there is no personal liberty or respect for basic human rights and not only the people are enslaved but killed for any expression of opinion contrary to the government!
I think this sends a strong message! Just some surprising current news that makes you think!
You make your own conclusion.

JP55301
  8/25/2009 21:47 EST

HGQ,
you bring up a good point and this lack of leadership worries me especially in Citizens watch groups. Seems they are disorganized and w/o directions.

What is to be noted, for some who say expats are not concerned, is that apparently the people of Ecuador are concerned about the direction these groups may eventually take, that is why Mr. Gagliardo is trying to defuse the issue stating they will not be armed groups or beat up citizens singled out because they spoke against the government.

He further states that there is no reason why the citizens should be alarmed or worried about these groups! Hmmm?
So why are they? Apparently they feel uncomfortable about this governmental action given the history of these groups and the company Correa keeps. Right now he's in Cuba listening to Fidel's weekly thoughts and reflexions. (totally communist ideas).

HGQ2112
  8/26/2009 12:32 EST

JP55301 - No doubt, thoroughly objectively proven, that Castro is an old-school, hard-line Marxist Communist. However, just so that everyone knows where I stand...lol...imo, that does not mean that simply because Correa is in Cuba and conversing with Castro that Correa will catch "Marxist Communism", as though it were an airborne virus. Correa's politics are evolving and that evolution could trend towards an innovative and positive political policy structure for Ecuador, or it could turn into something less prudent, productive or pleasant. For now...it continues to bear watching.

HGQ2112
  8/30/2009 15:17 EST

Against the backdrop of Vice President Lenín Moreno suggesting that there is an internal plan to destabilize the current Ecuadorian government, some very broad-based and basic guide lines for the creation of the Citizen Committees were announced and passed in the legislature. Still, inconclusive, imo, and too early to judge, given the sparse level of details. However, I choose to focus on the article highlighting Moreno's comments, because, while only *pure conjecture*, it is hard to fathom that the Committees will not obtain a "militia role", given such a high-ranking official of PAIS citing potential internal destabilization, inclusive of military personnel. It would almost stand to reason that a political entity...looking to obtain political stability...who questions military loyalty to any extent... might look to citizen's militias for support. How effective that support? History shows us great variance with regard to the quality of militias, but most of it is not very favorable. Since this is currently pure conjecture, I offer no analysis on the value of such militias, just the observation that they, imo, have now become more likely in the wake of Moreno's statements.
Attribution: http://www.eldiario.com.ec/noticias-manabi-ecuador/130685-dice-gobierno-que-hay-un-plan-para-desestabilizarlo/

suspirar
  8/31/2009 23:20 EST

Oops. Sorry, I did not see the message to me on August 24 (and I'm avoiding political threads). Just to let you all know, Ecuador did not work out for me, and after making 3 attempts to live there, I have given up. This means that I pretty much won't be participating in Ecuador forums anymore.

Getting back to what I meant by "I think most expats in Ecuador have adjusted mentally to accept the way things are"....

Well, first of all, there are a lot of expats in Ecuador who have inadequate Spanish skills. They came to Ecuador barely knowing Spanish. They cannot understand a newspaper, a news broadcast on TV, or even the people around them. This makes them a bit clueless. Because these expats cannot understand what is being said/printed around them, they tend to not pay attention.

Plus, the "bad news" has been coming to us little by little, so that we could get used to it with time.

Bits of shocking news that expats had to eventually get used to:

Correa threatened to default on his country's publicly issued bonds. Many people, knowing that he was an economist, thought he was bluffing, but then he went through with it. The default set a bad example for the people of Ecuador, sort of indicating that it is okay to offer someone 12% interest if the are to loan you money, but later you can break the contract and only give the person 35% of the loaned principal back. Foreign investment in Ecuador has since dropped.

I expected more moral outrage from the Ecuadorian people on this bond-default issue. After all, isn't it wrong to receive a $100-loan from someone and then refuse to pay 65% of it back? However, on the Internet forums, the Ecuadorians didn't seem outraged ... because they were not the ones being screwed over.

There was discussion that Ecuador may stop using the U.S. dollar as its currency (usage of the US dollar was probably the greatest booster of Ecuador's ecoomy). Then the president threatened to arrest anyone who said that Ecuador would drop the dollar. Since then, articles speculating on Ecuador dropping the dollar have stopped. Correa insists that Ecuador will keep the dollar as its currency.

A fair share of Ecuadorians do not have qualms about screwing over foreigners. Ecuador increased its tax on windfall petroleum profits to a ridiculously high 99%! (Later the tax was reduced to 70%) Ecuador is scaring away the foreign petroleum companies, although the govt. denies that it is going to nationalize the foreign petroleras. I asked an Ecuadorian friend his opinion about the 99% tax. He was for it, saying the foreign petroleras had paid no taxes in the past. I should have asked him what he thought the consequences of the 99% tax would be. A lot of the government's revenue comes from the petroleum industry; if you hurt this industry, the government will most likely have problems paying people.

Correa kicked out at least 2 high-ranking officials in the U.S. embassy. He also nearly deported an American who was involved with the national environmental police in cracking down on illegal hunting of sharks for their fins (the fin is cut off of a live shark, and the rest of the shark is then discarded as waste into the ocean). It was as if Correa was really offended that an AMERICAN was involved, as if we're vile. Now there is even more killing of sharks for their fins.

There is socialist propaganda all over Ecuador. The Telesur television network is pretty convincing in its socialist propaganda; I bet it could convert a lot of us. I visited the Universidad Nacional de Loja where I was so shocked by all the socialist propaganda on a public-university campus that I took photos of the propaganda:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9025705@N07/sets/72157621119100801/detail/

The views of young people now tell us what the future will be like.

There is anti-gringoism in the government, with "gringos" meaning the relatively affluent English-speaking foreigners. I can sympathize with it. To understand this viewpoint, think about all the people of European descent who moved to South America and then lived a privileged life compared to the South Americans. I think the South Americans would have been happier if everyone were equally poor.

Che Guevara had commented that he despised the "privileged." I can sort of relate.

Well, that's enough from me.

JP55301
  9/1/2009 00:21 EST

Suspirar, sorry to hear things didn't work out for you but fully understand it because I feel things are not right there they way the government is acting especially for us gringos. But that is my opinion.

I have definetily been scared away from investing there!

Sorry I misinterpreted your comment and I agree totally with this posting even though you did not mention many other points like the disclosure of world wealth, citizens groups etc.

You always brought good honest information to the forum and educated many that are sleep or better yet the one's that have not arrived and only Read Gary Scott's letter that claim Ecuador is perfect, only to find out the reality too late. I hope we don't lose you and you will continue to post threads in this forum now that you will see the events from outside.

I thought the pictures are great! I CAN'T BELIEVE ANYONE WILL DENY CORREA'S GOVERMENT IS HIGHLY SOCIALIST-MARXIST AFTER VIEWING THESE PICS! Yet there are still some who deny these events and worse yet defend the government by somehow interpreting everything positively regardless of the events. And to re-enforce them even more and leave no doubt Correa has sorrounded himself by a group of elite friends such as Castro, Chavez, Ortega, Morales and now Iran! If it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck its a DUCK!
They say pictures are worth a thousand words and these in a university definitely leave no DOUBT.

Thanks for the wake up call w/o fancy rethoric or demagogue and with pictures which are indisputable.

With the correct information each person will have to make their own choice but at least now it will be an educated decision! It will be good for some and not for others but such is life. The important issue is that we all need to have the correct information w/o any SPINS or preaching!

carolannemck
  9/1/2009 06:35 EST

I need to put my two cents worth in here now. I am a member of several forums for expats living in Ecuador and as a person living here I need to know what is going on with the government. Unfortunately, on one of the other forums, people got into personal attacks, etc., so two of the most knowledgable contributors stopped posting leaving many people uninformed. There are many expats here that don't want to know what is going on with the government and want only to see things through rose-colored glasses. I need to know what is happening and would hate to see that same thing happen here. I value the translations from the Spanish into the English, and I am intelligent enough to draw my own conclusions. I would hate for valuable contributors to stop contributing here because they feel they are being attacked. There are some of us who actually live here already that need this information. Please don't let these people be driven off.
Carol

JayRock
  9/1/2009 12:16 EST

This is my first post on the Ecuador Forum, but because I have been reading the posts regularly for several months now, I feel like I know everyone to a certain extent. There is a sense of community in this forum that I appreciate and have found very valuable as I consider moving to Ecuador. So I thought it was high time that I introduce myself and say hello. I was moved to write at this time because I wanted to concur with Carol Anne's comments about the importance of the contributions. I find the information presented invaluable, not only as I wrestle with my decision, but if I end up in Ecuador, I most definitely plan to keep reading and occasionally contributing. So I extend a heartfelt "Thank You" to all the contributors, especially the regulars who provide so much food for thought and good resources. Please do not stop.

Even though I have been a silent observer up to now, I have started to think of the regular contributors in family terms. I hope that no one takes offense at my analogies. I just thought you might like to know how I'm seeing it from the outside and to emphasize that, just as in a real family, everyone has an important role to play and there is some comfort in being able to anticipate certain comments and reactions. So, fwiw, I have come to view Carol Anne as the wise aunt with the first-hand experience, JP as the grumpy grandfather ever ready with words of warning about worst-case scenarios and HQ as the brother-in-law that has all the up-to-the-minute information and attempts to maintain a balanced view. And I am sad to see Suspirar leave the forum, like a niece that is moving on to other things.

I mean these comments as innocently as possible, so again, please do not take offense or read more into them than intended. There are clearly other regular contributors as well, but these are the main ones I have come to know in the threads I have been reading. In any case, I hope everyone will keep contributing, serving this crucial function, and agreeing to disagree (as cordially as possible). Keep up the good work.

suspirar
  9/1/2009 12:19 EST

I don't think there's anything that American expats can do to change what is going on politically in Ecuador. The closest thing to making a difference, I suppose, would be to participate in online forums with Ecuadorians.

I recommend that expats visit the elcomercio.com website and click on the "Foros" (forums) button and register to participate in the forums (you have to type in castellano of course). In addition to being able to post on the forums and participate in the encuestas, subscribers receive approximately 2 e-mails per day from the newspaper on breaking news stories. Reading Ecuadorian newspapers, with a dictionary on hand, has been my most effective way of learning more castellano vocabulary.

I've participated in hi5.com forums too, which can get nasty on the subject of politics.

And just to make it clear, I still love Ecuador, with all its natural beauty, but I wouldn't have had much of a future there.

JP55301
  9/1/2009 18:58 EST

I agree with Suspirar in making sure you are up to date with the news, that is what this whole thread is about. By the way I also agree that this has nothing to do with Ecuador and all its beauty and warm and gentle people it has to do , as usual with the giovernments that sometimes forget who elected them and what is their job. Then again there are some that prefer one system over the other. You have to make that choice once you are fully aware of the events and what they mean to you.

Read below!

Here its an example of how governments excuse their totalitarian (and sometimes illegal) actions under a legitimate title which is accepted by the general population as the gospel and unquestioned, not aware of what it really means ( spying on us and eliminating our privacy) or what they are doing. That is why we need to keep INFORMED!
I found this article in a magazine and thought it would be proper information for this forum given the fact of all the government events occurring there specially the disclosure of worldly assets to the Ecuador SRI, formation of citizens groups and closing of TV stations. If its happening in the most powerful, democratic, capitalistic and free country in the world under a president that denies he has socialistic ideas imagine what can happen under one that is a declared socialist.
There is always information to be read between the lines of any new innocent law passed or president decree. Unfortunately we can’t anymore take things for granted if we care about our welfare.
Another example is the many laws that were passed, unaware to all, under the US bailout act. Some very detrimental to unaware citizens like mandatory bank spying on customers and reporting to government.
SEE ARTICLE BELOW!


Liberals & Conservatives Agree: The Government’s unprecedented surveillance of citizens threatens basic civil liberties.

How to Make Sure
Big Brother ISN’T
Watching You!
Power-mad government bureaucrats are misusing laws designed to hunt terrorists in order to illegally spy on law-abiding Americans. Fortunately, simple techniques used by Hollywood celebrities and the wealthy can make you virtually "invisible" to government snoops!


The U.S. Constitution protects citizens against "unlawful search and seizure," and U.S. courts have long insisted that police agencies must have "probable cause" that a crime has been committed before they can search through your home, subpoena your bank records, tap your private telephone calls, and so on.
But in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks, all these constitutional protections are being flagrantly (often illegally) ignored by many government agencies.
Laws that were designed to catch terrorists are now being used instead for domestic spying in the U.S… illegal investigations of political organizations… monitoring of bank accounts and credit card companies… routine scanning of private email and web browsing… tracking vehicle movements… and lots more.
Both liberal and conservative organizations are outraged at the current scope of government surveillance—which now far exceeds anything George Orwell imagined in his chilling, anti-authoritarian polemic, 1984.
Worse, the U.S. Patriot Act now requires tens-of-thousands of private businesses—from banks and brokerages to credit card companies and precious metals dealers—literally to spy on their customers for the government.
In the name of catching money launderers and terrorists, the government forces private businesses to report any "unusual" activity involving transactions over $3,000—and all the data is fed into a massive government supercomputer known as the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN).
What’s more, if employees of these businesses warn their customers about these spying activities, they could go to prison.
You’re Guilty Until Proven Innocent
In the eyes of power-mad government bureaucrats, ordinary citizens are guilty until proven innocent—and they’re pushing for NEW, expanded police powers that will include mandatory fingerprinting, iris scans, and DNA sampling of all citizens, national biometric I.D. cards, transponder tracking of vehicles, even geographical tracking of citizens through microchip implants.
The potential for abuse and illegal snooping is massive—and is already occurring.
In March 2007, even the U.S. Senate held hearings about possibly revoking the Patriot Act because of revelations that the FBI was routinely and illegally gathering telephone, email, and financial records of ordinary Americans without proper authorization.
Fortunately, there are now steps you can take—100% legal steps routinely used by Hollywood celebrities and the super-wealthy—to shield yourself from government snoops and others who want to illegally invade your privacy.
For example…
A 100% legal way to move money offshore without violating U.S. reporting requirements. Federal law now requires that you report every bank or brokerage account you have outside the U.S. if the combined total in such accounts exceeds $10,000—or you face up to five years in prison and a fine of $500,000.
However, the wealthy have long used an investment vehicle that is exempt from such reporting requirements—offshore life insurance policies. A life insurance policy purchased from a foreign carrier is NOT considered a "foreign bank, security, or other financial account" and therefore not subject to U.S. reporting laws.
What’s more, offshore insurance policies are "invisible" to the asset tracking services used by private investigators and government snoops in the U.S.
They allow you to take advantage of tax-advantaged investments and offshore funds not accessible to U.S. investors. They also enable you to diversify into non-U.S. dollar assets that may gain in the event of future and continued declines in the U.S. dollar, economy, or markets.
Best of all, offshore life insurance policies often have lower premium costs… better asset protection than their U.S. counterparts… zero tax on policy earnings… and the same provisions for tax-free borrowing and tax-free receipt of death benefit as ordinary U.S. insurance policies.
In a word: They are the perfect investment vehicle for those who want to escape the illegal prying of U.S. government snoops and predatory lawyers.
Best of all…
This remarkably private investment is easy!

HGQ2112
  9/2/2009 16:33 EST

suspirar - I, also. am saddened by the negative results of your relocation to Ecuador. I do, however, hope, that none of that "negativity" you have suffered has impacted your views of the country or its government. You took the time to raise some interesting and diverse points. I will take the time to offer some observations. It is true that many Ecuadorian Expats (and those around the globe) have limited language skills. It is true of immigrants to the U.S., historically, and it is also true of immigrants around the globe. It is unfortunate, which is precisely why I think it is important to look at Ecuador through "Ecuadorian eyes", not "Expat eyes". It is also partially why I give more credence to the perceptions of life-long Ecuadorians than Expats. I, also, sense the "trickle down" effect of what you define as "bad news", but that is always the way government delivers information. it is not unique to Correa or Ecuador. Correa's default on the bonds is at once the most conflicting and interesting development of his administration, imo. You emphasize only the negative. Prior dialog with you makes me comfortable that you understand the complexities. However, some on the forum might not. I am going to walk a middle ground line in explaining. In some ways, you didn't finish the story. Correa defaulted on overpriced bonds...then went back into the open market and, in essence, bought the same bonds back at a deep discount. Actually, from one perspective it was a brilliant economic maneuver. Where you and I concur is that it doesn't "wash away" the default. However, it does leave Ecuador, short-term, economically better off. Let me present the concept in a *grossly oversimplified format*. What happened is as if any one of us would have defaulted on a mortgage at 8%...then managed to buy back the exact same mortgage from another source at 5%. Short-term, that's a huge advantage to us...but we still left a disgruntled mortgage holder where we defaulted at 8%. So, did Correa sell-out Ecuador's future for a quick-fix present? Not so fast. Correa gambled that in the future, when bond markets stabilize and prosper, the usual "renegade cowboy mentality" will take over and they will be looking to throw good money after bad. In other words, he gambled that the bond markets would forget and forgive. You know what? If I were a betting man in Vegas, my money is on Correa. He gambled on exploiting Capitalism's greatest flaw, g-r-e-e-d. Contrary to the infamous line form the movie "Wall Street", quoted by the character Gordon Gecko, "Greed is [not] Good". There is no proof that Ecuador is moving away from the U.S. dollar, although given the U.S. dollar's future, it may, long-term, not be such a bad idea. Who wants to have a currency backed by the world's greatest debtor nation, with a shrinking GDP, dried up growth rate, retirement system in virtual default and only two political parties from which to choose from, each nothing better than the mirror image of the other (See Obama get us further involved in Afghanistan, while he campaigned against Bush's involvement in Iraq)? Short-term, however, Correa will likely pick political survival over pride. Moving away from the $USD now, before Ecuador can better stabilize economically, would likely plunge the country into a short-term economic abyss that would likely mark the end of the Correa administration. My sense is that Ecuadorians are no more likely to screw over "foreigners" than any other citizenry...anywhere in the world. Heck, the U.S. built an economic powerhouse (once) on the backs of "screwed over foreigners". Correa's eviction of 2 U.S. dignitaries is no more...no less...heinous than the numerous routine times that this happens globally. It is the diplomatic way to display "displeasure over this and that". Nothing more. It is made no worse or better because it was U.S. dignitaries that were banished. Socialist propaganda? On a college campus? I am aghast! Ever visit the "People's Republic of Berkley" in California? University of Wisconsin in...well...Wisconsin? The University of Chicago in my own dear home town here in Illinois? I protested in the 1980s at Loyola University of Chicago (my Alma Mater) when the then in power and openly declared Marxist Sandanistas were allowed to speak on campus. Well...there goes any hope for objectivity, as folks must now know how I feel about "Danny boy" and the gang. At least he didn't steal the elections this time around. Point is...should we be perched on the edge of our seats in the good ol' U.S.A. that Socialism lurks around every corner, because U.S. universities are hot beds for Socialism and Marxism, just like...well...pretty much anywhere in the world (Ecuador being no exception)? Anti-gringoism in Ecuador? Other than a rather...well..."detailed" security check at the airport, my last trip to Ecuador didn't meet with any undue prejudice or anti-gringoism. And, as folks can tell, I am not really shy about speaking my mind. Something I do not temper during my travels. I think any Latin American country should hold its breath when the U.S. forges a base on regional foreign soil. That's hardly "anti-American"...rather the simple capacity to pick up and read a history book. Come on...Correa is making decisions...some good (imo), some bad (imo). However, nothing overt enough to label him anything other than a far-left politician. We begin to blur the lines between a Correa...a Chavez...and a Castro and we'll be signing over carte blanche the license to breed more "monsters". Let us allow Correa the respect and time to evolve his own brand of "revolutionary" government. Let us judge him on fact and not supposition. Let us remain ever vigil.

reemiles
  9/3/2009 17:57 EST

HGQ2112......I think you have absolutely nailed this one! This is a very eloquent and reasoned piece which captures the essence of this conversation thread. We all need to be vigilant and aware of developments in the local political environment. I believe Rafael Correa to be an unusually astute player. This is a country in transition from being controlled by a minority elite who have held sway for several hundred years to a broad based alliance which embraces various interest groups previously disenfranchised. Correa has called this process a simultaneous revolution on several fronts. His opposition naturally wishes this process to fail. Correa tends to be larger than life and a risk taker. His bold strokes seem to be geared towards wrenching control from the traditional power base. It is entirely reasonable to expect the opposition to do what they can to prevent this from happening. This will undoubtedly create a lot of drama over the next few years, but this for Ecuadoreans to sort out. We wish them every success.

Terms like "left wing" and "socialism" cause a pretty strong reaction in certain quarters. To equate Correa with Castro is quite a stretch. Consider the fact that most European countries are at least small "s" socialist as are Canada, Australia and many others. What is so scary about these terms anyway? Gordon Brown is a socialist (Labour Party) Would you hook his name with Stalin?
Are folks afraid of some kind of socialist bogeyman who is going to rob them of their basic liberties? Hmmm...How about the Patriot Act?

My greatest fear is that the alarmists will dissuade others from considering Ecuador as a retirement destination. We've been here for over a year now and have found Ecuadoreans (with very rare exceptions) to be warm, welcoming and gracious. Are there warts? Of course, but we find them to be basically minor irritations. Bottom line is that we have a lovely quality of life in this grand and beautiful country. We honestly do not know any expats who disagree.

HGQ, we also liked the point you made about learning Spanish. It doesn't come easy for us older folks. Most of us however, are making a sincere attempt at it. We came here with no Spanish at all and a year later can shop, deal with the cable company by phone and have simple conversations with people we encounter. Ecuadoreans are almost always generous and patient with us and appear to appreciate that we are making an honest effort. So "poco a poco" we are getting there. We did not move here to be part of a gringo ghetto.

We join you in wishing Susiprar well and hope she finds her paradise. She has been very active in several forums and has made a quality contribution.

We are expats and do see all of this from our perspective. Perhaps some Ecuadorean citizens can join in and give us their views.

HGQ2112
  9/5/2009 15:36 EST

reemiles - I appreciate and laud your astute statements. Not because they concur with my position on this one issue, but because they capture the true complexity of the developing Ecuadorian landscape. I am just "fighting" against the "black and white" version of what is transpiring. It is extremely complex and, imo, the Western press does a poor job of illustrating that complexity. The United States has become extremely polarized as a nation and much of the world seems to be following suit. Yet a careful analysis of current global developments or prior history, generally shows that the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

HGQ2112
  9/6/2009 17:34 EST

For the latest on the Ecuadorian Citizen Committees, if you read Spanish, review this link: http://www.eluniverso.com/2009/09/06/1/1355/grupos-disputan-organizacion-comites.html?p=1355&m=861 . The piece is published in El Universo and talks about the complexity of establishing the Committees and the already strong conflict within PAIS as to the direction they will take and the functional structure they will have. For example, there are already regional power struggles as to who will serve as "Directors" of local Committee segments. Basically, with all modesty, it supports my continued assertion that this is not a simplistic "black and white" issue/process, and also hints at my concern that these Committees will serve as local power bases. I applaud Correa for trying to establish greater political stability in Ecuador, by bringing the PAIS party to the people at the local level. However, I caution that it could be at the expense of ceding party unity and control to local power bases, if the Committee structures are not well-defined and controlled by the central PAIS council. In short, an act of omission or an outright local "atrocity" committed by one of these local power bases would reflect poorly on PAIS, as a whole, and will be used as anti-Correa fodder by his opponents. Correa better tread carefullly...or he *may* be sowing his own seeds of instability, in the name of preserving stability.

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