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Rental Contract

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foxwhite1
1/17/2020 14:07 EST

We are in the process of applying for elective residency and juggling all the balls in the air, so to speak seems a bit of a challenge. As I understand it one must first obtain a rental contract prior to the visit to the Italian consulate in the US.

1 - Are landlords/owners willing to give rental contracts contingent upon successfully obtaining an ER Visa.
2 - Did you pay the deposits, realtor fee and first months rent upon issuance of the contract but during this waiting period?

I understand it can take up to 90 days for the VISA to be granted. and the hold your passport so if one were to rent prior to and pay first month rent, fees, deposits anticipating a successful granting of the VISA you could not travel to use the property while waiting, is that so? Can anyone explain in detail how they navigated this illogical process? Can one apply for Elective residency while in Italy?

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Shtinky
1/17/2020 16:52 EST

Hi foxwhite,
We bought our apartment so can’t answer your apartment questions. But I can answer the last one. No you must get your ER Visa at your Italian consulate in the US before you move here.
Good luck.

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Sergios
1/18/2020 02:25 EST

Do you have direct Italian ascendents? Does your spouse? If yes you may be able to circumvent the visa process.

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JacksterJam
1/18/2020 04:00 EST

Hi.

If you don't know someone who knows someone . . . most people I know who applied for a visa used a reputable agency that rents to tourists/students, etc. You can not obtain a "resident" rental agreement until you are a legal resident, and that can't be done until after you arrive in Italy and obtain a permesso di soggiorno, then file your residency with the city office where you live.

A reputable agency will list on their website the terms of the rental contract, including cancellation fees, etc. Where I live, many agencies who rent to tourists/students are very familiar with this issue and I suggest, in addition to reading their stated terms, giving them a call and discussing it with them one-on-one.

It is a perplexing requirement but one that must be met.

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JacksterJam
1/18/2020 04:07 EST

P.S. - Get everything, including terms, in writing.

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Shtinky
1/18/2020 06:53 EST

Also, it must be mentioned, the lease must be registered in the Comune of your community. The Consulate is hard over on this requirement. Keeps the landlord honest for both you and the taxman. AirBnBs or vacation rentals cannot be registered and therefore can’t be used.

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foxwhite1
1/19/2020 13:08 EST

Italian descendants, however I have been down that route. My Italian born grandfather naturalized a year before my father was born.

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foxwhite1
1/19/2020 13:17 EST

With all due respect Jackster, your statement, "You can not obtain a "resident" rental agreement until you are a legal resident, and that can't be done until after you arrive in Italy and obtain a permesso di soggiorno, then file your residency with the city office where you live" is awfully confusing and contradicts what is in the US Italian Consulate website listing requirements needed when applying for the Elective Residency Visa and before being granted.

--Lease, rental contract, or deed for property in Italy.
--The lease, rental contract, or deed must be in the applicant’s name.
--If renting or leasing, the applicant must present an original copy of a “Contratto di Locazione ad Uso Abitativo”, complete with proof your landlord has registered it with the Agenzia delle Entrate, the Italian tax authorities.

Which brings me back to the original questions...how have people managed to obtain a lease in Italy contingent upon a granting of the ER visa and were landlords willing to register the lease even before being sure the visa application would be granted? Did you pay the deposits and fees up front and then go back to the states to apply for the visa?

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Sergios
1/19/2020 13:26 EST

It does not matter that gramps was naturalized. You have the right to enter italy on a tourist visa and apply for reinstatement of you citizenship. You will have to apply for a permesso di soggiorno and with that (the receipt) you can apply for residency. You don't need all the BS that the visa requires. You will have to remain resident in Italy for two years before you can get your citizenship. The people at the consulate are criminally stupid for not telling you this.
Your wife and dependent children, if any, have the right to be with you during this time.

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Sergios
1/19/2020 13:35 EST

One more thing, you will still need all the same documents that you would need to give to the consulate to get your citizenship. Start searching.

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almare2
1/19/2020 13:45 EST

Sergio, I'm not sure that's correct. See Category 3 at https://conssanfrancisco.esteri.it/consolato_sanfrancisco/en/i_servizi/per_i_cittadini/cittadinanza/citizenship-by-descent.html. If foxwhite's grandfather was naturalized a year before foxwhite's father was born, he was no longer an Italian citizen.

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Sergios
1/19/2020 13:49 EST

He can not, like I did, have his citizenship recognized. But he can have it reinstated. You you lose your citizenship you can get it back by living in italy for 1 year. If your parent lost it you can get it reinstated by living in italy for two years. The grand parent....3 years. That is the citizenship law.

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Sergios
1/19/2020 13:52 EST

https://www.italyheritage.com/genealogy/citizenship/

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almare2
1/19/2020 15:06 EST

Ah, very interesting. Thank you.

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JacksterJam
1/19/2020 16:28 EST

Hi.

I understand. I am only telling you what I know from my experience and that of other people I know who arrived with an ER visa.

I apologize for not being more clear. I just don't know of anyone who was able to find an owner willing to rent to a non-resident from afar and offer a long term rental agreement unless is was through someone who knew someone. . . . For that reason, people coming over have had to rent places with a "transitory" type of agreement that can have a duration of up to 18 months

There are a couple of different types of rental contracts available in Italy, each with specific laws that apply to them, as well as different tax obligations for the apartment owner. The following link is to a one-page summation that does a pretty good job of explaining the different types.
https://www.wantedinrome.com/news/renting-in-italy.html

Good luck with your search!

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rsetzer99
1/20/2020 04:39 EST

I think the confusion comes down to how terms are used. The term Resident Lease is frequently used for the long term 3/2 lease. Italians are rather reluctant to do these leases to foreigners who cannot give strong evidence that they are going to be there long term. ---- For the ER visa, you need a lease that can be registered with the local comune and covers the full year of the ER visa you are asking for. In other words, you are saying you are going to be a resident of comune XYZ, so the same term gets frequently tossed about. If you think it may be unfair to have to commit financial resources before you even know you may be approved to live in the apartment, one can only shrug and say, well, thats the rules, From their point of view, they want to be absolutely sure you are not going to be a vagabond, and if you cannot afford the up front costs, then they will have doubts about your overall ability to afford to live in Italy.

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foxwhite1
1/20/2020 05:29 EST

"If your paternal grandfather was naturalized before your father's birth, you and your father are not entitled to Italian citizenship. "

My case, unfortunately!

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Sergios
1/20/2020 06:33 EST

That is not true. You are eligible to have your citizenship reinstated by living in italy for the required period of time. You are not required to get a Visa to live in italy.

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rsetzer99
1/20/2020 06:37 EST

The fb page us Italian dual citizenship had detailed guide that clearly help you figure out all the scenarios.

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Sergios
1/20/2020 08:30 EST

From: https://italiancitizenshipassistance.com/faq/

"Q: I do not qualify for citizenship because my Italian-born ascendant naturalized before the birth of his or her children. What can I do?
A: If you are the child or grandchild of an ex-citizen, you can obtain Italian citizenship by residing in Italy for a period of three years. Great-grandchildren (and beyond) are treated no differently than people of purely non-Italian ancestry, and can only acquire citizenship by residence in Italy for a period of ten years. People who do not qualify for citizenship by descent can still acquire citizenship by marriage or by service to the government."

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almare2
1/20/2020 10:30 EST

Sergio, So doesn't that mean that one has to get a regular elective residency visa, live in Italy for 3 years, then apply for citizenship?

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Sergios
1/20/2020 13:07 EST

It does not. One of the options on the permesso di soggiorno is for citizenship reasons. You need to supply your documents for proof and then they give you to PS for the needed time. You do not need the visa. Once you get your PS receipt, you can get residency and healthcare. Then you'll have time to study for your drivers license.

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