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Salisbury
3/1/2019 08:22 EST

My wife and I are in our 70's and would like to retire in Boquette, Panama, we have pensions of $3,600, per month, can we live good on that income in Panama?

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Jazzmann
3/1/2019 08:34 EST

I suspect you could live in Boquete on that, but probably not very well. My advice is that you contact Panama Jackie on this forum she could give you the most accurate and up-to-date information. Im most, but not all, places in Panama you could live like royalty on that kind of money.

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PanamaJackie
3/1/2019 09:00 EST

HI Salisbury

Yes, you can live in Boquete on $3600 a month.. actually LESS than $3600.

I live in Boquete on much less than that. My house is paid for though. But even if you factor in rent, the total monthly costs would be less than your budget.

You could get Panama health insurance instead of international health insurance to keep your costs down. For the two of you, at your age, that would be about $250 a month.

You can rent a nice, comfortable 2 bedroom 2 bath house for about $700 - $800. It will be completely furnished and include all utilities and a weekly gardener. By the way, you will probably have amazing mountain views too! Of course, you can pay a lot more for rent too but there is really no reason to. Or, you could pay a lot less for rent in Boquete but it would probably not be a standard you would enjoy.

Here is a breakdown of my living expenses in 2017 (sorry, I have not updated the list for what I paid in 2018 yet - but my costs actually went down in 2018!)

https://panamarelocationtours.com/2017-cost-living-panama

There are other areas in Panama where you can live for less but there are always trade-offs.

I'm glad to answer any questions you have. You can reach me by email at or call me at 972-496-4500

Since 2010, I have been offering PanamaRelocationTours.com/tours which is a good way to learn all the things you need to know to make a smooth transition to relocating to and living in Panama.

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ptyexpat
3/1/2019 10:05 EST

Salisbury

You could certainly live comfortably with that level of pension annuity in just about any place in Panama but despite your ability to afford to live in Panama you should also consider the quality of life that you are looking for.

Most of the interior locations in Panama have quiet townships that are good for retires including many of the beach communities in and around Coronado and other similar places. In Chiriqui you have the mountains and to a lesser degree beach areas so you have a wide variety of options but you need to choose your location wisely as there are some locations that are not what they are advertized to be and have lots of issues with infrastructure, crime, access to medical, shopping, and cost of living and so on.

If I were you I would consider other locations before Boquete as you’re likely to get a lot of feedback from those who have self serving and profit orientated agendas so be mindful of that.

Welcome aboard and good luck with your research & inquires and don’t hesitate to ask any questions, we are all here to help new arrivals and those who are contemplating a move to Panama.

Few people got here on their own so extending a helping hand to others is how experienced expatriates operate.

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jonoyakker
3/1/2019 10:25 EST

For the life of me, I don't understand all the cautions here about people trying to take advantage or persons seeking profit. Nothing wrong in seeking profit as long as they are honest and up front about it. Any new readers should use normal precautions as anywhere else.

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Panamaholmes
3/1/2019 10:29 EST

One issue to keep in mind when considering cost of living. There are a lot of things that are not particularly cheap. The cost for those items is comparable to (or more than) than you would pay in the US. Some examples include (1) electronics, (2) clothes and (3) restaurants. Health care is cheaper but not incredibly so for someone who is Medicare eligible. My bottom line is this. It's not that much cheaper in Panama (if at all) than many places in the U.S. If you are moving for economic reasons, you probably are going to be disappointed. I would recommend coming to Panama and see if you fall in love with it or not.

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jonoyakker
3/1/2019 10:42 EST

It depends where you are living now, but things cheaper in Panama are probably housing, utilities (with the poss. exception of electricity), everyday foods, and health insurance. Its quite possible to exist in Panama without a car as well.

Yes, there are cheaper places to retire-Colombia and Mexico immediately come to mind. The advantage of Panama is probably better safety and stability.

If you desire cooler mountain living, you should check out El Valle as well (but only if you are friendly and community oriented :)

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dogbone
3/1/2019 12:32 EST

I must say I disagree, Jon. 11 years ago when we lived in Boquete, we were literally DRIVEN CRAZY by all the GRINGOS who needed to make money to live there. We were bothered at every party we went to by them in our faces trying to sell us some goods or services, at higher prices than Panamanians would ask for the same. We did not move to Boquete to support gringos who could not afford to live there. We were totally unprepared for this problem.We got so we did not attend many parties anymore. This was my 2nd worst complaint about Boquete, the first being the home invasion problem.

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cinparadise
3/1/2019 13:37 EST

Dogbone,

You wrote:

"the first being the home invasion problem."

Here we go again! Another disgruntled person who can't afford to live in Boquete so they try to spread rumors! I have seen many Boquete expats like you who made poor decisions in life and didn't plan accordingly leave Boquete for financial reasons.

And for the record, for the few that have happened over the years they have been targeted crimes (people not paying their workers) or people foolishly leaving their doors open at night.

Crime is rare here in Boquete, it's almost always a crime of opportunity. Leave your home entry door wide open and someone walks by they're going to take advantage. Park your nice new SUV on a side street and leave your packages in it with the doors unlocked your packages will be stolen.

I guess you live where you can leave your doors wide open all night!

You're too funny!

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jonoyakker
3/1/2019 14:05 EST

OK...I have only run into it once or twice in 6 years in El Valle.

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jr555
3/1/2019 15:39 EST

Sailsbury
I’m assuming it’s $3600 U.S. not Canadian which would be $2700 U.S. Even so it’s still workable but all dependent upon your desired lifestyle. Do you feel the need to buy or are you happy to rent? If you are happy to rent and have a nest egg it will take you many years before you reach the $150,000 to ? you’d be out of pocket buying. But on the other hand if you play golf feel the need to join a country club and want to make a few trips out of the country each year you are going to be in a different spending bracket. If you are basically homebodies who do things as a couple and socialize infrequently your money can give you a good life.

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SAY
3/1/2019 16:37 EST

Amen, Dog bone. It is not just in Boquete that expats need to make money by hook or crook. It is in my town also. people come here with no visible means of support. No Social Security and no pension. The problem is that it not only affects expats, it also affects Panamanians in a negative way. There is a lot I could say about that. We need to remember that if we have a detrimental effect on Panamanians' lives,it will come back to haunt us,

As far as crime in Boquete, my first visit back to Boquete was in December 2016. I was in a Gringo store. The on-going and seemingly never ending conversation in this store was about who had been robbed and burglarized. It was fear-mongering at its peak. My only thoughts were 1. I was happy that I didn't settle in Boquete 2. Let me out of here

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PanamaJackie
3/1/2019 18:35 EST

SAY

There are no "gringo stores" in Boquete so can't imagine where you went in 2016. In fact, there have not been any gringo stores in Boquete since 2010 when I came here and perhaps even before. Remember, an expat cannot own a retail store.

DogBone,
Things have changed a LOT since you lived in Boquete in 2011.

It is very rare that you hear about anyone being robbed or a house being broken in to. Sure it happened in the past but not now. When you do hear about it, the house is usually in a very isolated place which is not a good choice.

The new road block at the Caldera cut off which was put in about 3-4 years ago made a difference.

Finishing the road between David and Boquete (about 6-7 years ago) helped a lot. They were bringing in workers from all over Panama and houses on either side of the road seemed to have more break ins during the road construction.

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SAY
3/1/2019 19:45 EST

Jackie, it may not have been a gringo owned store, but there sure were a lot of gringos in the store speaking English. Just because you want to split hairs doesn't change the facts. It is a store for expats. it is way too expensive for Panamanians.
Unlike you, I have no property for sale or rent. You claim that your tours do not promote property sales or rent, yet you have a real estate associate conducting one of your monthly tours. And I know for a fact that this person promotes real estate rentals and purchases.

if you claim a higher integrity, you need to clean house. Jackie

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ptyexpat
3/1/2019 20:00 EST

Jackie would you still be motivated to promote Boquete if you were one of those victims of the many violent home invasions perpetrated by masked & armed thugs? Or is your motivation to defend Boquete driven by profiting from your relocation business?

Oh the stench of hypocrisy reeks in Boquete!

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SAY
3/1/2019 20:03 EST

furthermore, Jackie, you violated Panama.s slander laws by posting derogatory information WORLDWIDE about Oscar;s tours. I almost said something then. I wish that I had because throughout the past few years, you have done this

Not right, Jackie. You rise or fall on your own integrity

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PanamaJackie
3/1/2019 20:05 EST

SAY,

You're wrong.

In 9 years, I have only been too sick to do a tour one time. Bronchitus.

In that one week, I did have a friend do the tour for me. She;s a Keller Williams associate BUT she had STRICT instructions not to mention anything about buying real estate. And she did not.

I trained her to do the tours back when my husband was really sick (before he died), She was the only person trained to do the tours.

We really encourage everyone to RENT for the first 6-12 months they are in Panama before even thinking about buying.

That is the message that she pounded in everyone's brain too.

Some people should never buy in Panama.

We do not sell real estate before, during or after a tour. If you read my 100s of testimonials they will back up that statement 100%!

We do show rentals in each area we visit.

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jeb69
3/1/2019 20:26 EST

SAY

I HAVE been on Jackie's tour and the only reason she shows any properties is to give everyone an idea of what's available in different areas.of the country and what you can get on your budget. She always advises everyone to rent for at least 6-12 months before making the decision to buy. The information she provides is invaluable to those who are trying to make an informed decision on whether to move to Panama or not. And yes, I know all of this for a fact.

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PanamaJackie
3/1/2019 20:48 EST

SAY,
you failed to mention that Oscar/Rod violated international copyright laws by copying everything I'm doing and copying content directly off my copyrighted website. That's lack of integrity!

It's not slander when it is true and can be backed up to written and notarized statements by the victims.

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cinparadise
3/2/2019 08:03 EST

Jackie,

These people attacking you and the anti-Boquete folks are nothing but internet trolls. Actually they're referred to as "bridge" trolls, they don't contribute anything of value and just hide under the "bridge" waiting to attack.

Don't feed the trolls!

As for the Rod and Oscar duo, I love how they advertise their tours:

"The Most Exclusive Expat Relocation Tour"

Yet to date they haven't done a tour!

As for Oscar's videos, I'm glad he ceased doing them, he was so incoherent, his English is poor at best. And I love how he reviewed three Boquete restaurants that are anti-gringo and do not honor the jubilado senior discount! Brilliant!

Speaking of, look at the result of their take over of the Boquete Ning website, the activity has decreased to one or two posts a day at best.

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dogbone
3/2/2019 08:55 EST

Cinparadise, you wrote:

"Here we go again! Another disgruntled person who can't afford to live in Boquete so they try to spread rumors!"

Don't be so sure I can't afford to live in Boquete. I owned a $400,000 house when I lived there before and I now own a million dollar property now (not in Boquete). AND, for your information, I was seriously considering buying a house in Boquete for myself, since there are things about Boquete I like and my husband hates Boquete after all the problems we had there. He would never live there again and has made it crystal clear. But maybe now I should change my mind and NOT buy there knowing there are people like you there.

I really dislike the shameless promotion of Boquete. While there are things I like, there are many more I dislike. Boquete town is frankly a hellhole. Boquete has been promising better infrastructure for at least 15 years that I know of, but somehow things just seem to get worse. For every person who tells me the crime problem has been solved, I hear at least 2 people who live there tell me it is as bad as ever. So go figure.

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ptyexpat
3/2/2019 09:35 EST

ciparadise= propaganda machine.

Whenever a bunch of dysfunctional gringos accumulate the in the same spot the socioeconomic environment turns to dust.

Want to buy a home in Panama great as long as you don’t do it in Boquete. Want a good meal at a fare price? You won’t find that in Boquete. Want to mingle among other educated English speaking North Americans? You won’t find those in Boquet enether but what you will find is crumbling sidewalks, tore up streets, seriously contaminated water, rabid dogs roaming the neighborhoods, feckless public services and countless disgruntled individuals who bought into the B/S who are now stuck and can’t get a ROI.

Oh did I mention the dozens of horrific home invasions that have claimed the lives of several North Americans?

Does anyone really believe Boquete is Paradise?

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marta231655
3/2/2019 09:41 EST

Personally I prefer to be where there are no Expats, I have lived there in the past and will be back soon to retire, and I just believe in being part of the community

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marta231655
3/2/2019 09:41 EST

Personally I prefer to be where there are no Expats, I have lived there in the past and will be back soon to retire, and I just believe in being part of the community

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cinparadise
3/2/2019 09:55 EST

Ptyexpat,

All lies my friend! You just can't stop can you!

So do you recommend purchasing a $500,000 home in Potrerillos? I do recall the real estate listing for your home boasted that you're only 15 minutes from Boquete! Was that a positive or negative attribute of your home?

For the record, I don't sell or promote anything.

All these people can't be wrong, here's just a few of the positive articles regarding Boquete within the last year:

*

United Airlines Magazine

http://www.unitedmags.com/the-trend-panama-coffee?

MSN:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/tripideas/50-of-the-most-beautiful-small-towns-in-the-world/ss-BBNf9Vc?ocid=spartandhp#image=22

Business Insider:

http://www.businessinsider.com/best-places-to-visit-july-2018-5

And of course International living is always listing Panama in the top two.

https://internationalliving.com/the-best-cities-in-panama/

https://internationalliving.com/early-retirement-in-david-panama-on-2000-a-month/

https://internationalliving.com/retirement-is-a-picnic-in-coronado-panama/

https://internationalliving.com/our-new-life-in-panama-on-our-social-security-budget/

Moneywise:

https://moneywise.com/a/best-countries-to-retire-on-1m

Forbes:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kathleenpeddicord/2018/10/11/the-3-easiest-places-to-retire-overseas/#7512a03e7cfd

Live and Invest Overseas:

https://www.liveandinvestoverseas.com/retirement-living/retiring-panama-still-good-choice/

Escape Artist:

http://www.escapeartist.com/blog/panama-great-option-visiting-retiring/

AARP:

https://www.aarp.org/retirement/planning-for-retirement/info-2018/best-retirement-countries-fd.html

Latin America's first eco green friendly convention center

http://www.atp.gob.pa/noticias/dan-primera-palada-del-centro-de-convenciones-verde-de-boquete

*

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lindapanama
3/2/2019 10:05 EST

You are a very sensible man. Living your own life without problems without those who find problems whatever country they move. Then they join with the same losers types in their new abode complaining about a lack of perfection.. I have been here 16 years and do not know many expats. I hasten to add the few I do know are fine people. Hope you can also find the very nice ones.

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jonoyakker
3/2/2019 10:08 EST

You guys don't realize that your bickering contributes nothing, and changes no one's minds? The only thing that you are doing is turning off people to this website and to Panama. Be adult enough to let it go...

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Carolannf
3/2/2019 10:12 EST

I really love this forum, my husband and I are retiring to Panama.
I'm looking for opinions, good or bad about Puerto Armuelles.
You guys are all awesome in you're responses.

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cinparadise
3/2/2019 10:13 EST

Dogbone,

A $1 million home in Chitre? I find that hard to believe but then again this is the internet! Oh, yea, my home is worth $2 million, yea, that's the ticket!

You wrote:

"Boquete town is frankly a hellhole."

Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of tourists that visit Boquete each year! The annual coffee and flower fair broke another record this year with attendance up over 10% at 160,000 visitors during the ten day event.

That's an average attendance of 16,000 per day for our small town!

Here's an aerial video of the event:

https://youtu.be/y5-xPmhCVeE

Here's another video of the event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agKO6wuFItQ

Yep, a hellhole for sure!

I won't bother to address your patently false statements.

Perhaps you do intend to purchase a home here in Boquete so your objective is to spread false rumors to drive down real estate prices.

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cinparadise
3/2/2019 10:19 EST

Carolannf,

Puerto Armuelles is a diamond in the rough. There are major projects on the horizon that will benefit the existing residents as well as new comers and investors.

Keep in mind, the area is at sea level so it's blazing hot all year round like all Panamanian beach towns.

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ptyexpat
3/2/2019 10:39 EST

Jonoyakker-

What you are witnessing is the death spiral of Boquete and those contributors who are desperate to resuscitate a community that they were responsible for wrecking all the while resorting to deception to try and save their sinking ship.

Ever wonder why they never dispute the inconvenient facts rather they just attack the messengers? I find it comical is that the various Boquete relocation tour services are at each other’s throats, must be driven by greed. Their fate is sealed but apparently they never got the memo…


C-
No I don’t recommend any gringos the "likes of Boquete" consider Potrerillos as their next community to move into and destroy. There’s nothing to see or do here and we want to keep it that way…

As for your reviews (propaganda) they’re ALL profit oriented, go figure.

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ptyexpat
3/2/2019 11:00 EST

Salisbury,

Please don’t think that all expats are as dysfunctional as those you seen in Boquete.

You’ve simply ventured into a debate about the inconvenient facts and who holds the moral high ground. Most of the contributor who are considered adversaries by Boquete have nothing to sell where as the rest of the “Boquete crew” are desperate to sell out and get out so when a visitor like yourself comes along they pounce on them with cleverly disguised sales pitches all the while engaging in damage control.

It’s assumes that you’re a smart consumer so please consider Panama as a retirement destination but carefully study the hidden agenda(s) of the Boquete propaganda machine.

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jonoyakker
3/2/2019 11:31 EST

Ptyexpat, its perfectly fine for you to offer negative reviews, but what is the purpose of saying the same thing over and over again? And when you signed up here, you agreed to not engage in personal attacks. As for my reviews, I assume you mean of El Valle and Panama...I don't know how you can know my intentions. But I suggest that you go back and read them. Because if my intentions were for increased profit, would I have included negative aspects of El Valle and Panama? And would I also post recommendations that people consider living in Colombia and Mexico?

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ptyexpat
3/2/2019 13:07 EST

Jonoyakker

Indeed I am curious about El Valle (PTY) and have heard good things about that place and would like to visit. Also I know nothing about any business ventures you may have so no I’m not referencing any of your activities that I have no knowledge of however I do have more than three decades of personal observations and experience in Panama and feel well grounded with my informed opinions especially when it comes to Boquete.

I had a chance years ago to invest anywhere I wanted when we decided to buy and build where we did, I looked at Boquete and areas immediately around the town decades ago and concluded that the future was not going to be pretty once North American immigrants moved in and changed the landscape for the worst.

Nobody can dispute that the once wonderful & quiet little community of Boquete was a hidden gem but unfortunate waves of self serving gringos swept in and pillaged the virginity of this once beautiful township. Now that the natural charm of Boquete has evaporated those who were blinded by their own stupidity want out and will do or say anything.

So no Jonoyakker I have no animosity towards you and plan on keeping it that way my friend!!

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jr555
3/2/2019 17:20 EST

Sailsbury
I fear your well meant discussion topic has been hijacked, but in an attempt to give a more direct spin on the good humored bantering. Bitterness does not grow out of nothing, on the other hand I live in Boquete and love it, the scenery and climate are perfect for me I can chose if, when and how I might socialize or connect with other expats, I spend no more than five hours per month downtown so you could say that I’ve learnt to avoid the obstacles, it suits my lifestyle.
I never knew Lee Zeltzer personally but by all accounts he was able to pull together all aspects of the Boquete expat community because he was so well respected. His unfortunate passing put his site into other hands and under the guidance of local expat “knowledge” there was a purge. One caught in this purge was Don Ray Williams arguably the most helpful and respected expat of recent times, this action spoke volumes to me.
carolannf
If you scan through some of the discussions of the past month you will find information on what has been said about Puerto.

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dogbone
3/2/2019 18:43 EST

ptyexpat said:

You’ve simply ventured into a debate about the inconvenient facts and who holds the moral high ground. Most of the contributor who are considered adversaries by Boquete have nothing to sell where as the rest of the “Boquete crew” are desperate to sell out and get out so when a visitor like yourself comes along they pounce on them with cleverly disguised sales pitches all the while engaging in damage control.

Unfortunately, I always thought this to be the sad truth of Boquete. A lot more people are trying to get out (read: SELL out) than get in. And this is coming from someone like myself who is actually considering returning there, but not making the same mistake of buying an expensive piece of property that takes 2 to 6 years to sell.

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cinparadise
3/3/2019 10:34 EST

Dogbone,

You wrote:

"A lot more people are trying to get out (read: SELL out) than get in."

You're such a troll!

Boquete is busting at the seams, try to find a parking spot in town, it's a lot more congested then just a few short years ago due to the fact of all of the people moving here.

It's 100% clear that you've never even visited Boquete.

Don't feed the trolls!

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Carolannf
3/3/2019 10:38 EST

Thank you, I will start scanning

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outsidecleanupset
3/3/2019 16:13 EST

Will all you guys please stay where your at. And not come to my sweet spot, Reminds me of all the NY/NJ Yankees that ruined my home state of Florida .

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XSMEMORIES
3/5/2019 12:33 EST

Hi where are you living now? Boquette can get cool . It was actually cold for me when we were there in Sept.. You should explore a lot of places; like Coronado,, El Valle ,I live in Santa Clara, Cocle. It's a quie area where everyone helps each other. I own a small 3 room motel. and rent out a studio apt.. The best is to look at a lot of areas, this country has a lot of diversity. Sheila

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