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An outsider's view of Belize

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vegaspmk
  7/13/2018 23:56 EST

I have been monitoring this board for a few months in preparation for an exploratory trip to Belize. I just returned to the U.S, after my trip to Belize and I figure my impressions may help others who are currently thinking about Belize as an option.

First, I want to thank CC4me for his gracious and very helpful tour guide role on my visit to Caye Caulker. He met me at the ferry and later gave me a golf court tour of the island that was very helpful.

As Is often noted on this board, Belize is not for everyone, so just to say that it's not for me isn't all that valuable. But, it's not. I'll focus on commenting on things I haven't seen discussed before.

1) Food. If I didn't know better I would think that Belize was a Communist country. Belize's "supermarkets" are depressingly similar. They are the equivalent of American 7-11s. They all have the same commodities. One brand of bologna and hot dogs (chicken) one brand of chicken and pork. That a country like Belize has no markets offering fresh seafood is a joke. Restaurant food was also depressingly ordinary. One of the bases for considering a move to a Caribbean nation is availability of a variety of seafood. I didn't find it in CC, Placencia, or Corozal.

2) The roads suck. If I never see a speed hump, speed bump. or the laughingly designated "pedestrian ramp" again I will be very happy. I can't imagine subjecting an auto I own to the deliberate bumps or the potholes.

In short, I understand that a lot of expats don't mind the shortcomings of Belize, that they see Belize as a laid back alternative to the stressful environments they have left behind. But, for me. I can't imagine willfully choosing to live in a nation where so many of the towns give ramshackle a bad name.

terrific
  7/14/2018 01:11 EST

Belize has big produce markets every week, which include seafood stalls, but it seems you did not go that far inland. The big Markets are in Cayo district. San Ignacio and Belmopan. much bigger selection of foodstuffs also by the sound of the areas you visited. Fresh seafood in the coastal towns is usually obtained early in the morning where the fishing boats come in.
The appalling state of the roads in Belize have discussed at great length for years on this Forum, even with all that discussion very little improvement.
Most of the expats who live and are happy to live in Belize usually advize visiting and exploring the different areas of Belize so that would be expats can find out for themselves what is and what is not acceptable for themselves in Retirement.

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hpj3
  7/14/2018 10:58 EST

OK, just off the top here... based on earlier posts, a total of 7-8 days in country, split tween CC n Pla... and judges an entire country. The comments are typical of those tourists who expect a Fla Keys experience - and are shocked to actually discover what Third World really means. Since the "issues" you detail have, as said above, been discussed her ad nauseum I wonder why you even bothered to make the trip.

belizelenny
  7/14/2018 11:56 EST

One look at the availability of products available at Southside Meats in Belize City (who ships anywhere in Belize) and you may have a different take.

Imported and Local Meats and Seafood.

I have a restaurant and we are even adding Sushi to our menu.

vegaspmk
  7/14/2018 13:48 EST

I didn't intend to offend anyone by critiquing Belize. As people frequently say here, it's not for everyone. I discovered it wasn't for me, and posted as to why in the hopes that my input might be helpful to others in my situation. I'm glad y'all enjoy it and find Belize's pluses outweigh it's minuses for you. We're all different, and making judgments about me doesn't make any more sense than it would be for me to make judgments about you for finding the country appealing.

vegaspmk
  7/14/2018 15:57 EST

I admittedly did nothing in BC except fly in and out of it. My supermarket experience covered four on Caye Caulker, two in Placencia, and three in Corozal.

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NHLFAN
  7/15/2018 08:30 EST

vegaspmk
Not every country is right for every person. I have found Colombia and Ecuador to be great. I lived in Colombia for a couple years now, and am currently in Ecuador for a couple months vacationing. Peru is also nice but not for me. Colombia has a free trade agreement with the US so you can get just about anything that is in the US if that's what you're looking for. Grocery stores are very similar to the US with fully stocked shelves with a variety of brands. Even some US brands. All the local fruits and vegetables are usually morning picked fresh. I like to live like the locals but it's nice to get your fix of peanut butter or pick up a nutribullet to make a morning fruit smoothie. Not everything from the US is available here but enough to make life more comfortable. Both Colombia and Ecuador have a lot to offer. Do some research and pick a couple places to visit.
The english language is a big draw to many moving to Belize. But immersing yourself into a spanish speaking country is the best and easiest way to learn spanish if you dont know it. It also opens a lot of travel doors as more of the world population speaks Spanish than English.

5allan1
  7/15/2018 08:58 EST

A very good perspective on why I prefer Mexico= convenience. Also affordability. It was not uncommon in Belize to ask for a food or other item somewhere and hear “ finished”. That wont work for me. I dont want to travel all over the country looking for a car part, jet pump or fresh shrimp.

Fairytales
  7/15/2018 09:14 EST

Thanks for posting Vegas... we do appreciate all points of view. We are headed down in 3 weeks so learning what you found & experienced and more importantly, the "work around's" that maybe you weren't aware of going in such as meeting the fisherman at the dock early morning is all valuable info, whether discussed 1000 times or not....for us new people.

What you saw in the "rundown" towns is typical for folks who have no "extra". We see it in this country, throughout South America, the Islands and around the world. I suppose if you spend the majority of your days providing a roof and food for your family, cleaning up the yard doesn't seem to be a priority.
This does not mean they are "bad people", it only means that don't have much extra. We tend to compare our culture with that of others with no insight often, into how they live and what they place value in.

What we pay attention to is the people themselves...are they happy? Are they begging? How do they interact with one another...are they smiling or are they grim? Is the "voice" of the town square happy & upbeat or hostile & angry?

Different paradigm, right? You reported "things" which is very helpful and as mentioned, appreciated....but what about the people...??? Did they not make you feel welcome?

jeff

Belizeboy
  7/17/2018 10:51 EST

Well, like we say here in Belize, it’s not for everyone. Obviously not for you.

hpj3
  7/17/2018 11:17 EST

vegaspmk - you said you didn't intent to offend anyone. Perhaps it was the tone and wording that raised some ire:
"Food. If I didn't know better I would think that Belize was a Communist country. Belize's "supermarkets" are depressingly similar. They are the equivalent of American 7-11s. They all have the same commodities. One brand of bologna and hot dogs (chicken) one brand of chicken and pork. That a country like Belize has no markets offering fresh seafood is a joke. Restaurant food was also depressingly ordinary. One of the bases for considering a move to a Caribbean nation is availability of a variety of seafood. I didn't find it in CC, Placencia, or Corozal."
The "supermarkets" are geared to the locals who rely on them for day-to-day existence. As stated in replies, judging an entire country based on CC, Pla n Corozal does a great disservice. I live in San Ignacio and find little that I can;t get locally. Given the size of our Sat market, where I do most shopping for the week, I lack for nothing... seafood included. And yes, I am from coastal SC so seafood is in my blood. Are there some things you can't get? Sure. You learn to work around them, which pretty much sums up the "living in Belize" experience - do what you can with what you've got. Think out of the box. Unfortunately, that's one ability that too many wishing to live the "ex-pat" life are incapable of grasping.
As an aside, there is one benefit of the speed bumps - no speed cops writing revenue generating tickets...

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terrific
  7/17/2018 14:16 EST

About Cops and tickets.
My son Lost or had stolen one of his number plates ( Probably Fell off due to rust and cap roads) so he had to go to the DMV who issued a new set with a different number and a new certificate of ownership to go with them, yes he had to pay but not a huge amount. He was due to renew vehicle insurrance so went to office got new certificate stuck it in window and was on his way. Three weeks later, going through a regular police check the cop checks the docs only to find the new number on his plates was not on the insurrance doc or his tittle deed, it was in the old number.
My son was on his way to the airport to drop off his brother and they were cutting it fine as it were. So the cop said ok leave your license with me and come back for it after dropping your brother off and we will sort it then.
My son returned about 40 minutes later and the stop signs and the police men had been removed.
Slight panic as he now had no license. he still stopped to check around and work out where his license could be, but just as he was starting to leave the cop came out of a nearby store and waved to him.
Luckily my son had the older tittle deed in the glove box with a past insurance doc which the cop accepted as proof it was legit, he wrote him a pink ticket to bring in the corrected insurance document to the local police station within 72 hours and pay a $20 fine. He then checked which way he was going and asked for a lift.
Being polite and friendly is always a help when dealing with the police in Belize.

5allan1
  7/17/2018 15:10 EST

For the vast majority of expats do what you can with what you have got doesnt cut it. Thats why God created Mexico
His will be done
:)

Fairytales
  7/18/2018 05:52 EST

I really wish the OP would return to comment on the people. That's a really nice "cop story",,,,certainly the idea of an officer trusting you to return does sound pretty friendly.

I think there are different levels of perception for everyone so I think I might understand what the OP was trying to convey but maybe wasn't perceived as they wanted.

A lot of us grew up in the 50's & 60's, some in the 70's, some earlier. So we all kind of grew up with a lot of the same values because our parents were Depression era kids and we grew up hearing and seeing the results of their work. For many, finding another solution is just a way of life. There are also many I think, that want to live in Paradise (as they perceive it) but don't want to go back to the "stone age" to find it. I can understand that too. While I CAN find a way to do most things, I no long choose to. I CAN build a fire to cook but I'd much rather use an oven now...that kind of stuff.

The world is a big place and there are some amazing places to see and enjoy but "home" ....Kerry and figure that we'll just know it when we found it, whether in Belize or not...really makes no difference where, as long as it feels "home".

jeff

terrific
  7/18/2018 16:57 EST

Fairytales. I think if you are noticably Expat like 6 foot 5 and Brittish, the cop knows you will be back for the License as it has your name photo and belize address on it. I think the cop hung around as he saw the address was close to where he needed to go. The Cops in Belize are assigned to stations/precints well outside of the areas they live in. My son regularly gives cops (well most people who flag him down really) a lift in his slightly battered truck even if it is only to where he is going to turn off the main road. Which is conveniently by a bus stop.
BTW at no point in my sons incident was it suggested he could "Pay" any cop a fee to forget it.

eljireh74
  7/19/2018 07:51 EST

Totally agree with you and appreciate your comments. No one should be attacking you. Newer visits are very relevant, as it's hard to determine if situations might have changed during a period of time. Thank you!

5allan1
  7/19/2018 08:51 EST

Local food is limited in quality and variety. Thats why Porfirio Diaz gave Corozalenos Chetumal.
Consult Transparency International for why Belize is ahead of Mexico on the corruption index

richmcintyre
  7/19/2018 13:31 EST

OP: you're insane on the food comment. The farmers markets in Belize are among the best I've ever been to anywhere in the world. Corozal has a good one. You can't really expect there to be on a small caye like CC. On the roads, yes, they suck. They suck in a lot of developing nations, trust me. If those are your two reasons for not moving to Belize, then you would really hate solid reasons for not moving there. Based on your sense of adventure (or lack thereof)- try Spain or Portugal.

5allan1
  7/19/2018 13:58 EST

On the markets of Belize:
Many newcomers reveal expectations of "fresh fruit and vegetables and a "healthier life style" Fresh depends on where you live. In Corozal, the trucks come from Mexico 2 a week with produce that was picked many days earlier. The rare fresh California peach or plum was up to $7 BZ last visit. Apples from Washington. were 1 $ bz each. Genuinely home grown and fresh tomatoes are not always available. Watermelon, papaya, cantalope, mango, avocado, bananas, pineapple, plantains, rice, sugar cane, oranges, limes, onions, marijuana and red potatoes are grown in Belize all in their own season. Produce from the central market stalls is nearly all from Mexico and drenched in insecticides and herbicides. The garlic is imported from China.
This situation might be different in San Ignacio.

terrific
  7/19/2018 16:04 EST

Wow its a good job Belize is not all the same as Corozal.
Go further inland. there is more variety and freshness. The whole of Cayo district and Belize City are much better supplied with fresh produce, and by the sound of some complaints more imported groceries too.
Few if any Belize farmers "drench" their produce in Insecticides partly due to such high costs and also they are not expecting or needing to vastly prolong the shelf life of their produce To the greatest extent the home market relies on seasonal produce.
I am not as familiar with the situation around the south and Placencia peninsula, or the Cayes. But I do know on a Saturday in San Ignatio there are a lot of hotel and resteraunt trucks and vans from Placencia picking up produce. At least one Hotel in Placencia brings guests up to the market as a 'Tourist trip".
Belize is a tiny country made up of some really different regions. Advice is always explore as many regions as you can to find the one that makes you feel at home.
We settled in an area that I am pretty was not even on our original list, if it was then it was at the bottom.
If you don't actualy want to live in Mexico but want a lot of its Perks then Corozol is probably the way to go.
By the way The most recent time I crossed into Chetumal it took about 2 hours on each side of the border to cross. ( just a regular weekend not a holiday or anything) Not quite as convenient as often suggested. If you are not a resident or citizen it will cost $40 a trip on the Belize side not sure how much the return from Mexico will cost, and then there is duty to pay on your goodies. I would always assume you would not be trying to smuggle things through.

5allan1
  7/19/2018 16:55 EST

The advantages of being close to Mexico are too numerous to mention here. I went over regularly by boat from Consejo and by taxi from Corozal. It did not take anywhere near 2hours. By taxi meant ( if u were friends with the driver) endless smuggling possibilities. Edible steaks,scotch, pate, chanterelles, charmin tp etc.
Good times
Of course, relocating to Mexico is easier

bobbyveee
  7/19/2018 17:06 EST

Terrific, i've a real good friend on AC, hes very friendly with the Brits in Khaki , they seem to be able to cross the border without problems,, surprised youve not found this 'trick' if thats the word . British Army , still has perks. But im a much older hand than you guys ???

terrific
  7/20/2018 01:12 EST

Probably not all that much age difference, We married in 70, David in the firms suit.
I was saying what I experienced as a "regular" expat those are the daily truths,
Yes knowing people and living in proximity to the boarder does mean there will be 'get arounds'. Also after you have been in your own neighborhood for a while and you have some recognition within the local population the Belize people are very friendly and helpful and I have found most are pleased to be asked for information or help from the expats especially those that treat their information, experience or advice with respect. Far too many expats do tend to "know" everything and do not want help, or disagree with the advice they asked for. These things are no instantly there for a newby. the OP was an outsider view.
Allan please stop either complaining about the corruption and poor government in Belize OR stop boasting on just how much you were stealing by smuggllng goods that you should have been paying duty on. I'm sure even you realize Belize relies a great deal on those duties, and I fail to believe you could not afford to pay the duty on your luxury oops, I mean essential to your life items.

5allan1
  7/20/2018 06:45 EST

GM Terrific,
You dont really believe the GOB trickles down import duty to benefit Belizeans do u? During my weekly smuggling expeditions I brought back ( free of charge) antibiotics and other meds as well as beer and an autopart for the village chairman. Call it democratic socialism.
Also I wouldnt reccomend Elite or Roses tp for your private use. High risk of chafing. Also border not boarder.

Fairytales
  7/20/2018 06:46 EST

" Watermelon, papaya, cantalope, mango, avocado, bananas, pineapple, plantains, rice, sugar cane, oranges, limes, onions, marijuana and red potatoes are grown in Belize all in their own season. "

"Marijuana"-whoa..... a fruit or veggie?

This sounds a little like the "Ketchup is a vegetable"

Never really thought about the "weed" environment.......on some of the islands, it mellows the folks....but I did read that Belize fairly recently legalized small amounts for personal use but they may have overlooked HOW those folks who choose to imbibe are to gain access....

Hey, since everyone is reading this thread.....Question: Driving a rental from Belize Airport to Corozal on a Sat afternoon.....how long a drive in time? ...it's around 100 miles.

Thanks----

jeff

terrific
  7/20/2018 17:10 EST

Ususally takes me two and a half to three hours depending on weather (driving rain slows me down), any road works, if lots of cane trucks on the roads, and how fast you like to drive. Do beware the sleeping police men (road sped humps) some are marked 100 feet ahead some at the point and some not noticeably marked at all. hit one at a good speed and you will take to the air. If driving along seemingly uninhabited areas vehicles suddenly emerging from the trees is not unusual. if looking ahead you see any buildings then likely to be a speed bump, warning or not.
Hope you are renting from Crystal most reliable for vehicles and help if you need it. booked ahead on line gives you a discount. They also will loan you a flip phone, that you then pay to add minutes to at almost any grocery store, for your use in Belize, You can use those phones to phone the US as well as internal Belize. ( often people try to use up all the minutes they have paid for by phoning home before they leave) Trying to text on them is a real pain and trying to play back any voice mail is hit and miss. Also Crystal put in a small ice chest very useful if you are going to be driving much if just for cold drinks and snacks.
Disclaimer...I have no financial ties with crystal just my personal experience with rental companies in Belize over the last 20 years.

mgammo
  7/20/2018 18:01 EST

I found Crystal to be good as well. That place near the airport is full of cool pieces and antiques where Crystal is located...

Fairytales
  7/22/2018 17:09 EST

Thanks so much for the wealth of info!! Kerry and I opened this last night, her first time reading any of you and she told me afterwards that she was surprised that so many were helpful to complete strangers....knowing that we won't be under the gun for time driving to Corozal before the front desk closes....LOL

Took everyone's advise and booked our rental with Crystal. No sense in re-inventing the proverbial wheel when everyone already knows their good to deal with.

jeff

bobbyveee
  7/22/2018 17:39 EST

Jeff, Tongue very much in cheek, but you do know Belize wheels are square.
Enjoy your trip, all the very best Rob

terrific
  7/22/2018 21:59 EST

One of the critisisms was of the run down towns/villages. I think this is what did seem a little offensive to many of the Expats here.
Did you happen to be near a village around 7.30 to 8 in the morning of a school day.
Out of those run down house you will see children setting off for school all clean and smart in their beautiful school uniforms, with the Backpacks or even old fashioned school bags.
Family is very important to Belizeans and turning out the children anything but smart for school would make people think they did not care. Also keep in mind some children may only have one full set of school uniform so mom has to wash and iron school clothes and often work clothes as well everynight. Most of those little houses do not have the luxury of hot water on tap.
If you have very little money, do you buy paint so Expats will not be offended by the apearance of your 600 sq foot house for your family of 6, or do you buy school clothes or shoes for the child who has had a sudden growth spurt. This is a problem the world over for poor people, including many areas in the western world.

Fairytales
  7/23/2018 07:30 EST

I find your description of a typical school morning pretty typical in many of the Caribbean countries and it's one of the things that we both like. I come from a family of educators & am in love with a teacher and being conservative, it's a custom that we both are endeared to.

I do not place much value on money or "things"....and maybe that why I don't "get offended" at much....of course there is the Big Book of "things that offend________" (insert name of your political group of choice) but I don't own a copy

I have told Kerry that this isn't a regular vacation so we're leaving the flower shirts, cornrows and bright colors at home and going with a succinctly more "blendable" selection this trip.

I know locals can spot a non in less time than an it takes many of us to focus when we open our eyes in the morning....but I don't want to look at your country from the Top down....we want to see it from the bottom up, taking the time to talk with people, paying attention to how people are.

The noted Mayan-descended communal thinking, generally only works with a peaceful and happy people so we're looking forward to an interesting time.

I've got to reach back out to Ken....I didn't really want to bug him much until we got closer to our trip...I'll go do that now.

Thanks again all!!

jeff

hpj3
  8/2/2018 14:51 EST

Terri... "Most of those little houses do not have the luxury of hot water on tap."
In fact, many of the little run down houses do not have running water at all...
The house I'm staying in in Cayo town has cold water only... so we time a shower for mid afternoon when the pipes have warmed up and it works fine. Of course, when i finish building my little house i have a propane on-demand water heater for those few times that I want a more "traditional" cleaning...

bobbyveee
  8/2/2018 16:58 EST

I did that all in the Army 50 yrs ago, dont intend to do it now, have a 91f pool a hydro therapy spa 8 burner grill and live in kinda luxury , been there done all that 3rd world stuff, just like the pampered life style and to be able to get great theatre , arts and crafts , and access to superb hospitals. You'll find your values change as you age and nasty meds invade your life style. Good luck to you all.

Fairytales
  8/3/2018 05:57 EST

HP....I'm with Bobby on this one. I can certainly appreciate what you choose to do and like most of us probably have done at some time, but now, I see nothing wrong with making my little world "comfortable". We all define that differently so I'm guessing that HP is quite comfortable. That's all any of us can ask for!

jeff

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