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Electricista
  7/30/2019 19:34 EST

Ameritrade will not cover your fees outside USA and Canada. Therefore you did pay a fee to Davivienda. Furthermore Ameritrade uses the Visa exchange system so even though they say "no fees", they actually hide their fees behind the Visa exchange system.

Compare your withdrawal experience with what Visa will give you on this page:
https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html/%20(2%20July%202018)?amount=1985000&fee=0.0&exchangedate=07%2F30%2F2019&fromCurr=USD&toCurr=COP&submitButton=Calculate+exchange+rate
https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html/%20(2%20July%202018)?amount=1985000&fee=0.0&exchangedate=07%2F30%2F2019&fromCurr=USD&toCurr=COP&submitButton=Calculate+exchange+rate

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mtbe
  7/30/2019 21:44 EST

Get a Charles Scwab account with ATM.

They reimburse all ATM fees (international or not).

The exchange rate itself that you received is okay....within the acceptable range right now...

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morganstern
  7/30/2019 21:48 EST

Burns...".I used my ameritrade card and did not get charged a fee.
20000000 for 657.85".

Who said you did not get charged a fee? And what fee do you think you were not charged? My experience is that Davivienda does charge an ATM fee.

I am not a conspiracy type of guy but it just may be that at the airport the machines are rigged to a 'tourist' level. The ATM is programmed to debit your account at a specific rate.....your bank just pays out what it is told to. I think that ATM you used, sure...it didn't ding you a specific charge but it DID assign a conversion factor to the withdrawal.....like about 200 pesos per dollar or less if there actually was a normal ATM charge, which is probably still better than the exchange dealers at the airport. I suspect this is the mechanics of the high charge you payed. And....there are no hidden Visa charges involved UNLESS you were using a credit, not a debit card.

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morganstern
  7/30/2019 21:53 EST

The exchange rate itself that you received is okay....within the acceptable range right now...

3040 is acceptable? Let's do business sometime. I have a bridge that I want to unload.

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LaPiranha
  7/31/2019 00:21 EST

20 million pesos cost you $657.85 ?
Seems like a mighty fine exchange rate.

Or did you mean just 2 million pesos?

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Wildstubby
  7/31/2019 06:22 EST

I have to agree that the airport ATM's are set with a much higher 'fee' than one you might find in an Exito or at a mall. I don't have the slips in front of me but the math came out to be about $7~$8 VS $0.85 from my MasterCard Debit card. However, if you really want to drill down, it is far cheaper than the 10~12% Travelex skims for dollar-to-COP exchange.

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Electricista
  7/31/2019 15:48 EST

Ameritrade the bank fee is 0%. Visa gives Ameritrade an undisclosed exchange rate which appears to be better than what one receives using the calculator.

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morganstern
  7/31/2019 19:07 EST

" Visa gives Ameritrade an undisclosed exchange rate which appears to be better than what one receives using the calculator."

This statement is true only after 5 shots of tequila.

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Electricista
  8/1/2019 08:18 EST

after 5 shots of tequila, please fact check the following:

https://www.tdameritrade.com/retail-en_us/resources/pdf/TDA3959.pdf

Scroll down to:

“ATM/VISA® Debit Card”

Near the end of the first paragragh after “ATM/VISA® Debit Card” you will see the following:

“With respect to international exchange rates, I understand that the exchange rate between the transaction currency and the billing currency used for processing international transactions is a rate selected by VISA from the range of rates available in wholesale currency markets for the applicable central processing date, which rate may vary from the rate VISA itself receives, or the government-mandated rate in effect for the applicable central processing date, in each instance, plus or minus any adjustment determined by the Issuer. “

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Electricista
  8/1/2019 08:31 EST

" Visa gives Ameritrade an undisclosed exchange rate which appears to be better than what one receives using the calculator."

Visa does give Ameritrade an undisclosed exchange rate however my conclusion is wrong. Your rate appears to be WORSE than what one receives using the calculator.". The higher the amount spent in US dollars to purchase a fixed amount of pesos, the worse the rate.

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morganstern
  8/1/2019 10:03 EST

“ATM/VISA® Debit Card”

Near the end of the first paragragh after “ATM/VISA® Debit Card” you will see the following:

“With respect to international exchange rates, I understand that the exchange rate between the transaction currency and the billing currency used for processing international transactions is a rate selected by VISA from the range of rates available in wholesale currency markets for the applicable central processing date, which rate may vary from the rate VISA itself receives, or the government-mandated rate in effect for the applicable central processing date, in each instance, plus or minus any adjustment determined by the Issuer.

This is where you are turned around: The original post was about a cash withdrawal at the airport. The above reference is TO A PURCHASE where Visa is the intermediary!!!!! Which is 100% the case...always! But NOT in a cash withdrawal. Visa has nothing to do with that.

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Electricista
  8/1/2019 15:53 EST

“ATM/VISA® Debit Card”

Did you notice the first three letters listed above?

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morganstern
  8/1/2019 16:25 EST

.......purchases in stores are made with credit cards AND with debit cards....

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Electricista
  8/1/2019 16:59 EST

Morganstern I understand why you refuse to budge on this one even though the empirical evidence is in front of you. You are use to a certain way US banks do business. But Ameritrade is not a US own bank. It is a Canadian bank that opened shop in the US. It is easier for a foreign bank to purchase ATM services, bill pay services, and other banking related services than to provide it themselves.

Also the Visa or the Plus symbol on ATMs in USA and Colombia is "Visa". "Plus System, Inc. (also known as Visa Plus or simply Plus) is a Denver-based ATM network that provides cash to Visa cardholders".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plus_(interbank_network)

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morganstern
  8/1/2019 17:38 EST

Ohhh....I get it. The problem is that TD BANK in Canada is NOT the same company as TD U.S. Just as Citi Corp Colombia is not Citi Corp U.S. And TD U.S.....where I have an account ....processes its VISA transactions just the same as Citi or Chase or any other bank that issues Visa Cards.

" But Ameritrade is not a US own bank. It is a Canadian bank that opened shop in the US. It is easier for a foreign bank to purchase ATM services, bill pay services, and other banking related services than to provide it themselves." -----totally untrue.

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EpaEpaEpa
  8/1/2019 17:50 EST

I seriously doubt a given bank's atm machine at an airport in Colonbia is "rigged" to manipulate exchange rate or fees. I guess we need a volunteer to make a run to the local airport and make a withdrawal while an accomplice simultaneously does the same transaction with same debit card company at an atm in the in the local mall in town. T?at would be proof positive. Alfonzo Bonilla is a bit out of my way so perhapp some one else can go...

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Andresen
  8/1/2019 18:07 EST

Or you could just perform the test when rates are frozen as they are on weekends.

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louiserickson
  8/2/2019 09:21 EST

@Burns used a Davivienda ATM which are famous for forcing you to use their bad exchange rate when using a foreign card.

You're better off using any other ATM, even those that charge ATM fees like Bancolombia. When doing the math, the exchange rate that Davivienda forces you ends up costing you a lot more than the fees at the other ATM's.

Davivienda ATM's use the scummy DCC practice, however, unlike other ATM's, you DO NOT have the option to avoid their DCC exchange rate. Here's an example: https://community.revolut.com/t/travelling-in-colombia/26620/7

Never use a Davivienda ATM in Colombia with a foreign card!

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spikerivet
  8/2/2019 11:16 EST

I'm new here in Colombia. Did I get stiffed 14% on 100,000 pesos on an atm credit card withdraw? I don't have a Td Ameritrade card but I should get one as I do have an account. I have Capital One cards I use as they don't charge 3% for purchases.

Given my situation what is the best rate I can get on a cash withdrawal on my credit card?
I appreciate any response.

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LaPiranha
  8/2/2019 13:19 EST

Hi Louise (Actually I'm not sure if its Louise Rickson, or Louis Erickson, sorry if I get it wrong. Maybe you should put a capital letter in there somewhere).

Davivienda is the only one I use for my British debit card withdrawals, by choice. I get very close to the XE.com mid-market rates, sometimes just a few pesos under, sometimes a few pesos over, and they are the only one who don't charge me a 14,000 peso fee for each withdrawal.

I think there is no blanket rule with all cards and all banks. I have long thought that it very much depends whether your home bank has a reciprocal arrangement with the Colombian bank. If so, you don't get charged the 14,000 pesos each withdrawal. If there is no arrangement, you do get charged.

Reading some of the posts over many years on the subject, you will see that some people use Bancolombia without charge, others do get charged. The same with Davivienda, Caja Social, AVVillas, or Grupo Aval, Colpatria and others.

I think you should all check with your home bank to ask if they have an arrangement with any banks in the country that you are going to. That might solve the question, and the common occurrence that one bank is free for some, and chargeable for others.

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morganstern
  8/2/2019 16:22 EST

Why anyone would use a foreign debit card in a Colombian bank and pay a fee is beyond me. Call them 'collective dopes of the day'

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morganstern
  8/2/2019 16:29 EST

I have long thought that it very much depends whether your home bank has a reciprocal arrangement with the Colombian bank. Lapirana.....there are no such deals.

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elpdiver
  8/2/2019 17:13 EST

I received around 3200 from ATM over the last three weeks. I did pay a fee of around 12,000 fee on 700,000 pesos.

LPD

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LaPiranha
  8/2/2019 18:50 EST

Morganstern .... There must be a reason why some cards get charged 14,000 pesos each time they draw money, and others don't.

That was just my best guess, perhaps there's another reason.

Louise (or Louis) also gets a very bad exchange rate too. I don't. So there has to be more to it.

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mtbe
  8/2/2019 19:59 EST

Yes...Charles Schwab is the only bank with ATM that reimburses ATM fees....that I could find in a short time that I was looking.

And one time at an airport ATM...3040 is reasonable for a first timer that needs Pesos to get to his destination.

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Andresen
  8/2/2019 21:41 EST

USAA refunds ATM fees but there is a monthly limit of $10 - I think it is.

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louiserickson
  8/2/2019 23:59 EST

@LaPiranha It's Louis Erickson :)

Every time I try a Davivienda ATM it shows me a typical DCC screen where I need to accept or decline a bad exchange rate.
Here is a photo of the screen: https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/business6/uploads/revolut/original/2X/b/bf3446f7eb3c3b6ba577040895f0400adb5f277a.jpeg

Do you get a similar screen? If you don't see that screen or if you are given a good exchange rate on that screen, I'd be curious to know where this ATM is located and if you have the same experience at all Davivienda ATM's. Also, which bank are you using from the UK?

ATM's seem to be quite inconsistent in Colombia (just look at Colpatria), so I guess it wouldn't be impossible if Davivienda has ATM's with no fees and DCC disabled.

Cheers!

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Andresen
  8/3/2019 08:57 EST

And any particular ATM might offer you a larger or smaller withdrawal depending on if it has been recently filled or not.

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morganstern
  8/3/2019 10:19 EST

any particular ATM might offer you a larger or smaller withdrawal depending on if it has been recently filled or not.

Where do people get these ideas?

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JustSomeGuy
  8/3/2019 11:20 EST

"Why anyone would use a foreign debit card in a Colombian bank and pay a fee is beyond me. Call them 'collective dopes of the day'"

I think he is saying, in his usual straightforward and polite way, that one can find ATM cards that will pay any fees associated with getting cash from an ATM and that it would be foolish not to get such a card.

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Electricista
  8/3/2019 11:33 EST

Late Sunday or very early Monday I have noticed that some machines will only offer amounts divisible by 20 when they run out of 50 s. It is nice getting 600 mil all in 20s as it is always a pain to exchange large denominations on the street.

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saiid20
  8/3/2019 12:01 EST

elec....I find its more of a pain to figure out where to put the 30 damm bills...wont fit in my wallet...guess could stuff 10 or so in each other pocket.....
ahhh...life has its difficulties.....

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Electricista
  8/3/2019 12:41 EST

Yes the ATM just kept pumping out the 20 s. It was like I had won in Los Vegas. A fat wallet does impress some Colombian women.

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jo12208
  8/3/2019 12:58 EST

Yes if you need quick cash. The official rate posted on Banco de la Republica was 3162 on that day.

I have lived here many, many years. Paying fees and getting bad exchange rates is crazy.

As mentioned by another poster Epa Epa. Capital One 360 Mastercard debit card gives you the OFFICIAL TRM rate. No fees. But
find a bank without charges. Right now Colpatria is one..Caja Social and others. This could change.

Go to banrep.gov.co They have a very good English version. I think they started changing the TRM at mid day or so. The rate does not flucuate up or down during the day. I am not sure if they change at mid day. They post the new daily rate around 7 AM.

If you are going to live here a long time getting the official TRM will save you a lot of money. Saving about 40000 pesos a month on fees and rates is almost half a million a year!

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LaPiranha
  8/3/2019 13:37 EST

Hi Louis. (Thanks for the clarification on your name). Wow, I've never ever come across a screen like that. That's the first I've seen.

Not sure where you are, but I use the Davivienda machines in Bogota 2 or 3 times a week, mostly at the Exito store at Portal Norte, or at my local Carulla branches in Cedritos, and occasionally at Carulla on Cll 140. I also used to use the machines in CC Santafe, but when they put in new machines, they wouldn't accept my debit card, so I continue using the other 3 places. (Maybe its only the new machines that display the screen you show?) Never have been charged the local fee of 14,000 pesos, and the exchange rate is always within a few pesos either way of the XE mid-market rate at the time I made the withdrawal.

I use Barclays Bank, an English bank, but who operate worldwide, and the transactions are handled by Visa. A/c number 437620127, sort code 25-76-32, and the security code on the back is 5273.

Tell me yours, just so I can check if there's anything different, (lol)

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morganstern
  8/3/2019 14:43 EST

"I think he is saying, in his usual straightforward and polite way, that one can find ATM cards that will pay any fees associated with getting cash from an ATM and that it would be foolish not to get such a card."

I once posted on the forum that Bancolombia didn't charge to use foreign debit cards at its machines... then without hesitating I announced that I was foolishly wrong and had been paying a ton of money over a period of months....many months, for nothing. I was the dope of the year on that one.
And then, as far as I know I was the first to mention that Colpatria was not charging me anything to use its machines.....and that TDBANK online was rebating any ATM charges as I kept a $2500 deposit in the bank. Of course with a CapOne account this is a mute point....as it is with my new BankAmerica debit card that doesn't charge anything. Again, there was no mention of Colpatria ATMs. I also mentioned that Giro Express only charged me $36 (including taxes) to ship shoes costing $129 plus 5 tubes of toothpaste. I always call them when I make a purchase, I always confirm by email and they always notify me when shipped. Once or twice they were too busy to answer the phone.....so what? I called back later. They are a class outfit. I have also pointed out that the Schwab account is a BROKERAGE account and can be a disadvantage to some (a lot of disclosure involved)

As usual, when I am wrong (BanColombia), I am dead wrong. Otherwise I have been pretty much right on...and helpful. And as usual....if you don't like my tone...stuff it. Pura Vida

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Andresen
  8/3/2019 16:42 EST

I have never seen that screen either. In Medellin, after 6 years of note taking I have found the following fees (in the ATMs I use with my USAA debit card): Bancolombia and ATH/Banco de Bogota=13,200; Servibanca=14,500; Grupo Aval banks=10,500; Scotia/Colpatria appr. 15,000; BBVA, Davavienda, & Banco Caja Social=ZERO!

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nonames
  8/3/2019 16:50 EST

Wow! Morgan you ARE stern !

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morganstern
  8/3/2019 18:16 EST

Me? Stern? umm....ex Marine Sgt......Hollywood Marines!

Wait...I gota go. The girlfriend wants me to do the laundry?

Coming honey...

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AaronMDE
  8/4/2019 00:26 EST

LaPiranha,

I've seen the screen Louis linked to.....although it was in dollars versus GBP.
This was at the Davivienda ATM in the San Antonio Exito in Medellin.
I was helping a friend and she was getting 600,000 pesos. The dollar amount being taken from her account was approx. $9 more than it should have been with that days rate of exchange. No direct fee but this indirect fee.
That was the day I learned not to use Davivienda!

Aaron

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LaPiranha
  8/4/2019 14:23 EST

Thanks for the input Aaron.

It seems some of us do get different experiences from others. It can't be simply random, so there's obviously a reason for it. I still think my earlier suggestion of a possible arrangement between your home bank, and a "partner"bank in whichever country you visit could have some merit.

Unless anyone else has any suggestion why this is so?

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