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EPS - 2 quick questions please

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Edgenaples
  9/17/2019 12:18 EST

What do they do about pre-existing conditions ? A friend, recently diagnosed with Parkinson's had always thought about retiring in Colombia in a few years.
Is there an age at which you can no longer get EPS ?
Thanks !

morganstern
  9/17/2019 12:40 EST

About your question.....there are no 'preexisting conditions' restrictions but........when a person who is older applies for EPS, as I did with Sura, they never even responded to my application (later I realized I already had EPS with another company). I am 73. So, though the law says your friend is eligible, I would NOT assume it is automatic. It could involve a huge fight...maybe court....I am not sure. I have searched for information on the net for cases like you are describing and there is little info.

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guestuser
  9/17/2019 13:18 EST

EPS is The Public Health system in Colombia and mandatory for all residents. It’s not about being eligible, by law you have to have it. The cost is not based on age but rather on your income.

Visitando
  9/17/2019 13:42 EST

And NO it is NOT mandatory and NO it is NOT based on your income. Get a freaking life you moron and stop trolling this forum.

JustSomeGuy
  9/17/2019 14:00 EST

I am left speechless.

I hope whatever caused this is somehow made better soon.

morganstern
  9/17/2019 14:06 EST

I find what Visitando had to say 100% correct.

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guestuser
  9/17/2019 14:21 EST

@visitando why do you want to discourage factual posts? Why is it that you accuse someone who has a different opinion to you as a troll?

If you have income even if derived from overseas you’ll find the government here will expect you to pay for EPS and ( and this is rarely mentioned) if you’re under the Colombian retirement age (62 for men 55 for women) the national pension scheme.

On the flat 103,000 as you’re so confident I’ll make you an offer. My wife’s a Colombian citizen and pays her EPS only for her. How about if I can prove that she pays more than 103,000 a month you’ll pay her EPS for full year 2019. If I can’t I’ll pay your 103,000 contributions for 2019.

My wife doesn’t work, but she does have investment income. But it’s still going to be very, very expensive for you.

Incidentally I was talking to a tax advisor yesterday who works on expats tax returns and we were talking about how many expats weren’t in compliance with the EPS law and what the best strategy was. Her advice was if you get one of the letters pointing out that you weren’t paying based on income to change your payments immediatedly. At this point they seem more concerned about getting people into compliance than going after past due money. Another strategy is to start in a new tax year paying the correct amounts.

No matter how much you insult me, or others, your 103,000 has been and gone. Just about every expat we know was signed up on that basis. It was an great deal while it existed, but it’s gone. Unlike not paying taxes there doesn’t seem to be any great risk to not being in compliance, at least at this point, but when they do catch up with you it’s time to pay what you should.

guestuser
  9/17/2019 14:56 EST

@morgan

Good, you want in on the bet too!

Winning once would have been enough to buy her a R/T business class ticket to Europe, if you join in she’ll be able to take me!

So, your contention is that EVERYONE in Colombia pays COP 103,000 a month and that how much you are meant to pay isn’t dictated by your income?

Be careful now there’s more than enough information out there that suggests you’re wrong....

nonames
  9/17/2019 15:15 EST

For what it'e worth here and I don't really care one way or the other, I know a young Irish ESL teacher (with a big school) who pays about 170 mil. He sais he had no choice in the mater. That's all, Please carry on!

EpaEpaEpa
  9/17/2019 17:40 EST

No an EPS is not obligatory for citizens/residents of Colombia, Many can't afford it and are covered by Sisbén which has no monthly cuota. However if you want to sign up with a medicina propagada like COOMEVA you must be enrolled in an EPS. (This last has been contested by Expatriado). Anyway I have a European friend with permanent resident visa who has Sisbén so it is not restricted to Colombian nationals.

EpaEpaEpa
  9/17/2019 17:50 EST

An EPS is not remotely "mandatory". Many Colombians can not afford it and are covered by Sisbén if they meet the point system requirement. It is completely free and applies to foreign residents as well as nationals. The only instance where an EPS is obligatory is if you want to enroll in one of the medicines prepagadas like COOMEVA.

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Elexpatriado
  9/17/2019 17:59 EST

I agree withVisitando...

Not mandatory

I have Medicina Prepagada and no EPS and have been living like that and using the Prepagada (private). Medicalservicesservices for years

Suits me fine..that way no.one can accuse me of "Sponging off of the "great"Colombian Social system"..jajaj

Which I have not..quite the opposite to be precise..

Elexpatriado
  9/17/2019 18:02 EST

Actually I think PL and Visitando are the same person

A scizophrenic witha split personality..

And he is now fighting with himself...

Either thst or some of the ae old farts have their nut bras on too tight..

guestuser
  9/17/2019 18:10 EST

@epaepaepa sounds like semantics to me. If you can’t afford EPS then you’ll be enrolled in SISBEN. One way or another you’ll end up in a Government Health system here.

As for foreign nationals resident here getting SISBEN that’s probably pretty common with the number of refugees in the country.

However if the attempt is to suggest to people that if they retire to Colombia that they might be eligible for free health care perhaps you should post what the income level is to get SISBEN? And just how many retirees (short of marrying a Colombian National) would qualify for a visa and also SISBEN?

SISBEN is a social subsidy program and exists alongside Article 153 which mandates that Health Coverage in Colombia is mandatory.

Elexpatriado
  9/17/2019 18:14 EST

The people at the EPSs and even some at the Prepagada sedes will try and tell you you have to have EPS.to get Medicina preoagada..so they can get a sales commision..or whatever ..dont believe it..they dont know what they are talking about..it is BS

Maybe you do as a citizen but as a foreign resident with a passport or Cedula Extranjeria no

I am.living proof

I got my medicina prepagada years ago with just a passport..no EPS..never

Any way who cares.

The Ops question is do they prevent you from getting it if you have a pre existing condition.From peoples responses it apears not.

Elexpatriado
  9/17/2019 18:15 EST

This site is more entertaining than any Tele Novela

GRINGO1459
  9/17/2019 18:25 EST

Well the way I see it Visitando and Morgansten you both have just had one hell of bet offered to you if you both are so sure of yourself take the bet. Here's what I think there will be no bet haha.
forgot I will be a troll next can't wait to see what my evil altar ego name will be

fecherklyn
  9/17/2019 18:35 EST

@ EpaEpaEpa


Your last post states "No an EPS is not obligatory for citizens/residents of Colombia, Many can't afford it and are covered by Sisbén which has no monthly cuota." I am not sure if we are in conflict on this point, or not.


Normally there should be no doubt about such a basic premise - Either EPS is obligatory, or it is not!" However, I feel some uncertainty is feeding into this debate because some persons have past custom in mind, whilst others are taking into account recent legislation that is only gradually making its presence known.

I think what we can easily agree upon is that citizens who cannot afford EPS can be covered by a seperate Sisben service.

So if we have no disagreement regarding the situation of those who CANNOT afford the EPS cotisations, DO WE HAVE A DISGREEMENT regarding those who can afford it?

My understanding is that all residents of Colombia are obliged to subscribe to basic EPF if they can afford it (EG. Their income exceeds one Monthly Minimum Salary). This is clearly established in the latest law and details have been given in previous posts on the subject. However, what the law says and whether or not those who can afford the cotisations do subscribe to the EPS, may be two different things. It is quite likely that many residents of Colombia who are legally required to subscribe to EPS DO NOT DO SO. Equally clear is the fact the law states failure to abide the rules will be punished. Everybody is entitled to take their chance.

guestuser
  9/17/2019 19:25 EST

Recently there have been postings that political threads will kill this site as others sites have been killed in the past. That may be true.

But what is more threatening to this site is the non stop abuse of people who try to make helpful postings.

As I see it this forum is to exchange experience and knowledge so that we all can navigate living here in Colombia. Equally it’s an information source for people considering coming here.

If I make a posting about tax and how I understand it that doesn’t make me a ‘troll’. Yesterday for example I met with my tax preparer and I took time at the end of the meeting to ask her some of the questions that have come up on here. That’s me trying to find information for the forum (which may or may not match what I’ve posted before) on my dime. Yet if I post that information it’ll get attacked and the name calling will start.

This morning there was a pretty extensive study in one of the local newspapers about what the level of the peso might be at the end of this year and next. Now I guess most on here don’t subscribe to La Republica so I tried to precise the article as presumably it’s a subject of interest to expats here and potential expats. The commentary on that article quickly descended into whether or not I’d correctly described the purpose of the installations recently attacked in Saudi Arabia.

Look, I don’t care if people pay taxes or not, but I’ve tried to give feedback on the system. Equally it doesn’t benefit me that they’re trying to get people to pay more for EPS, I didn’t make that decision but I’m not a ‘troll’ because it’s an inconvenient fact for some. I don’t see the point in arguing about semantics about whether EPS is mandatory or whether SISBEN is an alternative. For 99.999% of expats if you want healthcare you get EPS. Why pick a post apart for the tiny exception.

@skyman (who’s so concerned about political threads) posted today ‘On any site there are many, diverse personalities, who have naturally many different ways of speaking and communicating’ like it’s some charming feature that there’s endless name calling and insults.

For those who don’t agree with posts state your reasons why. There are plenty of posts out there on the internet that will agree with your 103,000 EPS cost but they are years old. Look at some of the newer posts. See what they say.

Even the most read of blogs get it wrong. On of the most widely read blogs in Medellin has in a May 2018 post

‘EPS – Entidadas Promotoras de Salud – this is the public health insurance that is mandatory for everybody who is a resident of Colombia. The monthly premium is calculated as 12.5 percent of the monthly gross income that you declare to the EPS.’

At least from postings that I and others have made you know that figure is wrong. The monthly gross income has a coefficient of 40%. It’s actually 12.5% of 40% of your monthly income (5%). So one of the best regarded blogs is hugely out on something as basic as health care costs.

There’s a lot of good information here, but there’s a group he seem to think it’s funny to abuse people who are trying to post that information.

They are the ones who will kill this forum.

Visitando
  9/17/2019 20:20 EST

fletcher face and lost in paradise are simply too long winded for me to read their posts, so to cut to the chase, just do a poll, which we have done before on here and everyone who has EPS is paying 103,000. The person mentioned who is paying 127,000 is also paying into a retirement fund associated with the EPS and his/her place of employment is probably paying a similar share.

the person who calls himself 2 different names is completely and hopelessly wrong, as usual.

Elexpatriado
  9/17/2019 20:23 EST

ooohh..punished....you say..oohhh poor me..they are going to throw mey a$$ in jail with all the child rapists and sicarios who dont have enough money to pay thier way out of jail ...because I am not on EPS....

I wont be able to sleep tonight..

Too dramatic... Fech..LOL..

Like I said..more entertaining than a tele novela

As a matter of fact, I think this site would be a great laboratory for dementia research...

I dont think any members on this site will be going to jail..but I think a few will be going to the Sanitoruim. in the not to distant future

Now I am not a betting man, but if I was, I would bet on that one..

Jajajaja

morganstern
  9/17/2019 20:29 EST

You guys lost me on this one. I agreed with Visitado's post about EPS not being mandatory in Colombia. That's about it. About a bet....I have no idea what that is about nor do I have any interest in knowing. I will say that there is some blow heart on this site that keeps telling everyone that they are going to go to hell because they pay 103,000 for EPS and he pays much more. Well, let him QUIETLY pay more than the rest of the people here and all can suffer in peace. One other point about EPS. I once had Colsanitas, years ago, and it was a requirement that you had to also have EPS. I assume it is true today but I am not an expert. But I would bet a dollar that it is so!!!!

guestuser
  9/17/2019 20:31 EST

@vistando more insults?

The person mentioned wasn’t paying 127,000, read the post again.

Again, I’ve no argument that many, if not most expats are paying 103,000 but under the current law that isn’t the right amount.

It’s like many expats don’t pay tax. That doesn’t mean that expats aren’t meant to pay tax, they just choose not to.

Why don’t you post a contemporary reliable source that everyone needs to pay 103,000. Surely there must be a Colombia government source that says 103,000 is the amount everyone has to pay?

guestuser
  9/17/2019 20:37 EST

@morgan never said you were going to hell.

In fact I today posted professional advice that I got that said all they cared about was people coming into compliance. Unlike taxes once they flag you’re not paying enough all you have to do is pay the correct amount. At this time they’re not making anyone pay penalties or back amounts as far as I am aware.

guestuser
  9/17/2019 21:10 EST

@fech

How about one million pesos to a Colombian charity?

One million pesos to anyone who wants to challenge we’re the same person and wins. If they are wrong they pay.

Perhaps we could have a poll for the forum to decide the most deserving cause?

fecherklyn
  9/17/2019 21:36 EST

Fine by me PL, I will match the amount you put up and lets see if any of these blowhards can stand the heat.

I also know of a lot of other residents who have had to adjust their EPS payments according to their DECLARED incomes. If the bet is really on I can not only get documentation proving the application of the new law, but will also be VERY happy to join in.

Elexpatriado - So you have never subscribed to the EPS despite having been here for many years, although you do have Prepagada coverage. Sounds to me as if you reason that having one exempts you from having the other. Go read the law.

guestuser
  9/17/2019 21:46 EST

@elexp


.’..oohhh poor me..they are going to throw mey a$$ in jail with all the child rapists and sicarios who dont have enough money to pay thier way out of jail ...because I am not on EPS....’

Where does it say that anywhere in the thread? And why the obsession with ‘child rapists and sicarios’?

Seems like an odd reaction to a discussion on what is the correct amount to pay for basic health care.

Actually even if you had to pay 5% of your income for health care that’s a bargain these days, particularly if your older. Why would you avoid paying it?

I’d kind of understand these arguments if health care costs were like they are in the US but how cheap do you expect health care to be?

Perhaps you’ve never been sick, perhaps you feel lucky ( in which case take up the million peso charity challenge), but for most people getting healthcare in some form kind of makes sense.

Interesting fact, from the US, average age at which people stop having good health. 63.5 years. 5% sounds a bargain to me.

Elexpatriado
  9/17/2019 22:18 EST

I have health coverage . You would know that if you read my thread.

At least Fech did

Anyway, enough talking to looinies

Take them too seriously and you end uplike one

Night all. I am boing to bed.

I am sure Fech will be up all night pouring through the Colombian laws, standards and norms, plus their latest addendas and updates

Me, I will sleep like a baby

guestuser
  9/17/2019 23:10 EST

@elexp but isn’t that the difference? Someone like @fech does spend the time understanding the system. But you don’t. But when he posts what the system is you dismiss it because.....

You may be cynical about the system in Colombia, that’s your right. But why do you want to stop his advice reaching other people? Why do you feel so threatened about it?

You say you’ve not got EPS but you have a health plan. We take that at face value although, if you read the rules it’s not meant to happen. Perhaps there are others like you, but we both know most, the vast majority of people have EPS and then the supplemental plans.

If there’s a post on here that EPS is mandatory (you won’t need to look far for other sources that suggest the same) why do you feel the need so strongly to abuse the poster? After all you’re not paying EPS, you’ve avoided the cost. If someone states the rule, that you’ve avoided, why the emotion?

So, for someone coming as a retiree to Colombia how do they go about getting a supplemental plan like you, but avoid the EPS cost? What are the steps? If you can explain that it’ll be of benefit to people reading the forum. No one wants unneeded cost, and everyone wants to sleep at night. So, how do you do it?

Elexpatriado
  9/18/2019 08:57 EST

PL

If somebody wants to PM me I will give them.the lady at Coomeva In Medellin who sold me the plan if I can still find here number which is a hassle because it was 6 or 7 years ago

If they are interested in not getting EPS and only prepagada

Note..prepagada doesnrt cover prescripcions but EPS does and as we all know prepagada is way more expensive espescially as you get older

My suggestion if you want to go this way te?l your prepagada provider you dont believe you have to have EPS for prepagada as a foreigner non citozen and ask them to show you the clause in the law .and say you refuse to.pay for EPS. I am sure they will comply.

I only had one woman at Coomeva try the EPS prerequirement on me and she was soon shudo. t down by the lady in Medellin who originally sold me the policy.This was a couple years ago andnobody has remarked about this since.

No more on that subject people can do what they want.and take whoevers advice they want.

I really dont care

Like Morg said if you are paying higher taxes and higher costs for EPS than other people in Colombia just suck it up and do it.Everyone has free will to do what they want and follow whaþever " advice" or experience others have.

Vikingo
  9/18/2019 09:27 EST

The way I understand the Colombian healthcare system, EPS could be compared with US Social Security including Medicare because a portion of the monthly EPS contribution goes into a Colombian retirement fund. Therefore EPS membership is mandatory for all employees on a payroll. and will be paid by the employer or the employee or both? Not sure who pays for EPS!

Residents not on an official payroll but with an income of at least minimum wage are also eligible.

There are no limitations to preexisting conditions or age of the applicant.

People who can't afford EPS are eligible for SISBEN, the equivalent of the US Medicaid.

If you download application forms for any EPS you will notice that one of the questions is about your income.

Elexpatriado
  9/18/2019 09:35 EST

Here is my humble opinion based in experience.

I admit I have not read nor memorized all the latest laws, standards and norms, including latest updates (I used to date a lawyer..there are about 5o volumes with monthly updates and addendums)

1.You are not required to have a healthcare plan if you are a foreigner as a Colombian non- citizen but a resident. That is why they do not put it as a visa requirement.

2.As a foriegner , with a cedula extranjeria you are not required to have EPS if you apply for medicina Prepagada. The sales people will most likely tell you you do in order to.make an additional sale, but if you stick by your guns they will back down

3.A Colombian can be covered by either Sisben,EPS or Prepagada. If they are employed in a regular job or as a contractor they are required by law to have EPS for health insurance and pension.This is one law that is actua?y enforced by the employers or clients.

This is based only on.my personal experience.

Beyond that as Schulz would say

"I know nozzing..nozzing!"

fecherklyn
  9/18/2019 09:41 EST

@ Vikingo

Your understanding is correct in my opinion except with regard to one matter - The cotisation for retirement pension.

The new law confirms cotisations for pensions and EPS are obligatory for all residents (Save specified exceptions) and states the basis for the payment computation.

The EPS cotisation is based on the individuals's IBC (40% of net income) and subject to a 12.5% rate.

The pension contribution is quite seperate from the EPS contribution and based on the same IBC but payable at a different rate (4.0% from memory, but I am too lazy to go and look it up despite Elexpatriado's ravings that I live a life immersed in tax manuals).

fecherklyn
  9/18/2019 09:43 EST

@ Vikingo

Your understanding is correct in my opinion except with regard to one matter - The cotisation for retirement pension.

The new law confirms cotisations for pensions and EPS are obligatory for all residents (Save specified exceptions) and states the basis for the payment computation.

The EPS cotisation is based on the individuals's IBC (40% of net income) and subject to a 12.5% rate.

The pension contribution is quite seperate from the EPS contribution and based on the same IBC but payable at a different rate (4.0% from memory, but I am too lazy to go and look it up despite Elexpatriado's ravings that I live a life immersed in tax manuals).

mattinnorfolk
  9/18/2019 09:44 EST

Viking, as long as you are not a resident you don’t need to worry about it, and use the prepago program. If anything major comes up you can fly back to your home country.

mattinnorfolk
  9/18/2019 10:20 EST

If you are a resident you are required to have EPS if you meet minimum income requirements and file Colombian income tax on all worldwide income. I doubt many expats are following the law and requirements, as just like in USA some people want to sponge off the host country as much as possible.

guestuser
  9/18/2019 10:25 EST

@elexp I think you are wrong, but some comments on your post

1. ‘That is why they don’t put it as a visa requirement’. How could it be a visa requirement? You can’t apply for coverage until you get the visa, so it can’t be a requirement, Equally filing taxes (based on income levels) are a requirement of being a resident. That isn’t part of the visa requirement either.

2. Prepagada is meant to be a supplemental health plan. It gets you better access to treatment, private rooms in hospitals all of that sort of thing. Why do Colombians who have EPS buy the additional policy? Is the idea that they don’t have to have EPS as well? Or is it only foreigners resident in Colombia who are exempt, and if so why? Why would CE holders have a preferential deal over citizens to avoid what is bluntly a health ‘tax’?

3. The advice to retirees coming here to try to avoid EPS might be bad. Prepagada gets progressively more expensive. Many expats because of preexisting conditions won’t even qualify.

4. An alternative to Prepagada is of course EPS and then paying yourself for private care. I had a simple problem, a build up of wax in the ear. Called in to make an appointment. The next available was in three weeks. Insert that you’ll be paying as a private patient and an appointment opens the same day. Cost, $20 and the doctor treats you like his best friend.
5. ‘Sticking to your guns’ needs some sort of information to validate what you’re saying. If you could quote the rules and regulations that would be useful. But what’s the plan without that? I read it on a website forum? What happens if you insist so strongly that they just shrug their shoulders, sell you a Prepagada policy, collect the commission and figure that your lack of EPS isn’t their issue?

Elexpatriado
  9/18/2019 10:28 EST

Please state the exact law and bylaw Mattingfolk

And please confirm it isnt contradicted by any newer or more specific addendums or updates you somehow "missed" in your seach

Elexpatriado
  9/18/2019 10:32 EST

1, Who Cares-it works for me
2.Who cares it works for me
3. Who cares-it works for me
4. Who cares it works for me
5. Who cares-it works for me

Cheers

guestuser
  9/18/2019 13:55 EST

@elex

‘This is based only on.my personal experience’

Translated

‘Saying it’s personal experience might convince a few gullible people that this is actually true. Of course I’m not going to produce any evidence or anything else that might back it off and if anyone asks me questions I’ll just avoid them’

However if anyone else post something to the contrary The response will be

‘Please state the exact law and bylaw Mattingfolk And please confirm it isnt contradicted by any newer or more specific addendums or updates you somehow "missed" in your
seach’

Bottom line @elex won’t provide any substance to his own postings but expects others with a different view to produce chapter and verse to support theirs.

And of course getting in the suggestion, again to discredit other posters, that they’re omitting information that might not be useful to their argument.

mattinnorfolk
  9/18/2019 14:35 EST

Use the Google search Elex, and I get it they know more about us then we do, but a wealth of info on there and easy to find.

Elexpatriado
  9/18/2019 15:16 EST

Matt- personally I dont have EPS – a partially PUBLIC FUNDED program- I have Medicina Prepagada-which is 100%- which , incidentally, I have personally gotten only 20% back of the about 40 Million pesos I have put into it in the last 7 years. so I don’t sponge. I only bring money and employment and tax money INTO Colombia and get NOTHING, ZERO; ZILCH out. After all it is a third world Country. If I was a deadbeat loser expat without 2 cents to rub together I would be in my rich socialist home country Canada, living in a government subsidized housing with the crack whores and refugees, having government paid healthcare and benefits, (like a guy I know in Toronto)

I suggest people who come here on social security and go on EPS (maybe ?even if they pay the "official" rate based on their income ) are the real spongers

Elexpatriado
  9/18/2019 15:18 EST

You guys give your opinion and experience, I give mine.

It is a free world.

I prefer not to go on any public csubsidized Colombian programs..dont want to be a "sponger"

Elexpatriado
  9/18/2019 15:20 EST

I forgotvto mention..the obvious..Medicina prepagada is 100% private

mattinnorfolk
  9/18/2019 15:48 EST

I heard Canada has an excellent healthcare system and plan, do you feel like your plan is as good as theirs up there ?

Elexpatriado
  9/18/2019 16:11 EST

Prepagada here probably a bit better-less wait lines but costs more

Canadian Healthcare definitely better than EPS (from what I have heard and seen from Colombians) in most cases

And it all depends where you live in Canada

Some provinces payyzero premuims, others pay less than a $100 a month premuim

Quality varies from Province to Province

In my opinion Saskatchewan has the best sytsem with reasonable wait times. That is where Socialize medicine in North America started


I goy cut off from Alberta health care, which is the costliest (to the taxpayer)andnmost ineffiicent- because they found out I wasout of the country- even though I stillpay taxes there. So I have zero overage in Canada now, though I could get reinstated instantly afterI moved back

Also dentistry in Canada is very expensive and not covered unless you are a refugee, illegal or on welfare,

Vikingo
  9/18/2019 18:06 EST

There may be a simple explanation why Elex doesn't need basic EPS for his
"Medicina Prepagada" insurance policy.
This program is most likely not! attached to any State controlled EPS like Sura or Coomeva and therefore is a private enterprise.
He also bought into it seven years ago and many laws have changed since.

Vikingo
  9/18/2019 18:27 EST

BTW, EPS are not State sponsored, only State controlled and the State had to bail out several of them and 'reorganize' top management because the EPS couldn't pay the specialists, hospital staff and high cost medication invoices for several months do to embezzlement by senior executives who were caught driving high end cars, living in mansions and expensive fincas they couldn't possibly afford on their salary.

Vikingo
  9/18/2019 19:04 EST

I have had basic EPS since 2005, received an American made pace maker which would have costs 7 million installed if I had to pay for it.
In a couple three years the pace maker will be replaced because of a worn out battery it seems if I'm still around and I had several heart interventions, some with stents, an expensive echo cardiogram every year and two years of professional therapy after a stroke 8 years ago.
You need to know though how to navigate the system and hang on to your paperwork to arrange for appointments.
The only thing I didn't like was spending the night in an emergency room were a 21 year old gunshot victim died in the bed next to mine and an old woman died also in my room later the same night. Needless to say I was glad next morning to get the hell out of there. There was no way of getting any sleep between the police, crying family members, the detectives and an other uniformed team where a female officer tossed him around and counted the bullet holes (seven).
I heard the police say he was a gang member and had spent time in jail, but the victims mother denied it.

EpaEpaEpa
  9/18/2019 19:39 EST

Vikingo for crissakes stay well!

Exp has posted repeatedly that he never had to sign up with a EPS in order to afiliarse with medicina propagada. Though obstreperous I haven't known him to lie and I believe him. However the question is really a mare's nest when you go to search it on google Colombia. Everything I can find such as this propaganda from SURA:

https://www.sura.com/saludsura/sections/soluciones.aspx

Indicates that EPS affiliation is obligatory in order to sign with a medicina propaganda. And in the link above they indicate that affiliation with SISBEN doesn't count as an EPS. Exp says he has had his coverage for seven years but being the picture of health has never had to use it. I wonder if , God forbid he should require attention some issue would arise regarding the lack of EPS affiliation Certainly hope not but the requirement or lack of remains mysterious. If I thought I could pull out of my EPS and keep my propagada I'd do it in a New Work minute, Having had the damned thing for over seventeen years I've only used it once for teeth cleaning...and she did a lousy job. .

Elexpatriado
  9/19/2019 07:46 EST

EPA EPA

I have used the prepagada many times..constantly..

Just havent got out of it what I put into it money wise. Probably only 10 to 15% max. It is quite expensive.

Get tests done every year, see a specialist for my thyroid once a year and a few other specialists..sports Medicine and physiotherapists and the like for minor sports injuries.

And they partially pay dental work..cleaning and the few cavities I have had

I have seen the written " law" as well but I was told it was written and only applied to.people on corporate payrolls or contractors of corporations and a foriegner on an independent income could do what they wanted.

I got it on a passport , didnt even need a cedula.Heck it was registered under an old expired pássport for years until I had them change the data base to my cedula.

Also, I know many foreigners and Colombians who for periods of time dont have any health insurance.

Tourists visiting the States or Europe are suposed to have health care (travel insurance) as well but many dont..espescially younger ones and the majority who come from Colombia.

The concept of every one being under some system.may be in the governments wishes , bur practically , it just doesnt happen.

Elexpatriado
  9/19/2019 07:51 EST

Vikingo

I have Coomeva medicina prepagada

Each EPS provider has separate EPS and Prepagada divisions. They are separste entities and operate like separate companies.

Prepagada medicine is 100% private, and although like any company are subject to government regulations, they are not subsidized and never "bailed out" by the government.

Vikingo
  9/19/2019 07:53 EST

Epa, if elex tells us who underwrote his health insurance it would help clear up the mystery. I'm certain it's not a well known EPS' like Sura or Coomeva.

The 1993 'Law 100' made EPS mandatory for the employed whereas the employer nowadays pays 8.5% and the employee 4% to a total of 12.5%. (per Wikipedia "Seguridad Social de Colombia" of 2008, the information I believe is still in effect to this date)

The "Independents", people who work from home or get paid under the table and gringos who are not on a Colombian payroll are not required to obtain EPS but they would be foolish not to. They are supposed to pay 12.5% of 40% of their gross income which can be easily verified on their SSA statement they used to obtain a retirement visa.

Even though I'm most likely the oldest on this forum I don't want to patronize anybody, but thinking to jet back to the US or wherever when a medical problem arises to use Medicare may work for a planned surgery well ahead of time but if you have a heart attack or a stroke time is extremely important, it's called the Golden Hour, about all the time you have to get to the ER to prevent lasting and permanent damage to your heart or brain functions.
You will get rushed into surgery or intervention immediately, even with basic EPS or having the worst EPS in the country.
I am still convinced that a portion of the EPS covers some kind of old age pension. I remember an ex gf raving that she needed to pay into EPS for at least 10 years to qualify for a pension. How much of a pension is anybodies guess. In Panama old folks get US$120 a month. Maybe it will be along those lines, enough to buy food and clothing.

In Colombia because of strong family ties sons and daughters usually help their aging parents or handicapped siblings to survive and the politicians know that, so they aren't overly concerned about them, of whom many need to resort to panhandling.

Elexpatriado
  9/19/2019 09:57 EST

Read my Post Coomeva

EPS s and Prepagadas are separate entities, like separate companies

.

Like I said, I know guys here who have nothing, and pay out of pocket, or use various travel insurance companies

Which I might consider doing later if Prepagada gets too expensive.

I made my input- enough said. People can do what ever they want.

Talk to PL and Fech, and lay in bed worrying at night the DAN Gestapo or the "Health police" are going to knock on your door and through you in jail

Or they are going to leave you bleeding in the street because you didnt paty for EPS (Or didnt pay enough)

I sure dont worry about crap lik that

Chau y tengas buen dia

Blenheim
  9/19/2019 10:08 EST

With basic EPS it also depends on where one lives and what provider one has. Some are better than others.

When i turned 65 my Col-Santias doubled so i dropped that and now just have Santias EPS for about 35-40,000 pesos a month i recall-(my wife fools with this issue).

When i think i do have an issue i make an appointment with a regular Col-Santias doctor for about 200,000 pesos and get a report from him / her.

Then i go to my Santias EPS clinic to see what they have to say-
Then after an exam with one's EPS clinic, If they determine one requires a specialist for an issue, one's clinic will then make an appointment to see one of their own specialists, which may take a certain amount of time for another appointment.

However If one already has results as in the previous paragraph,--typically the EPS doctor will use that info, rather than their making another appointment for one to see one of their specialists--this will typically save time--in any case works for me--

Hope have not confused one--

Once one is over 65 here a full paid medical program will be 700.000 to a million pesos a month depending on what provider-

Travel29
  9/19/2019 13:08 EST

EPS is mandatory and price depends on the enterprise you go with.

There are Colombians who can't afford it (EPS) so they go with another alternative, the name escapes me now, remember it starting with an S I think.

fecherklyn
  9/19/2019 17:43 EST

The "Scary"post has now been closed, but my following comment is equally appropriate to this thread.

One last message from this “Stupid old fart” who a vociferous haggle of you have accused of many things including lying, giving incorrect information and encouraging the notion the DIAN are beginning to get their act together in tracking tax evasion, whereas they have no such capacity and nobody has been bothered in this context.

The following letter from DIAN arrived with me today. As you can see, it is a follow up to an incident I already reported to this forum earlier this year and it refers to their “International Source Checks” and the fact the allegation of tax evasion they originally accused me of had now been closed because of error on their part. Hopefully this should convince some of you that tax evasion is now being actively persued by the DIAN, although the “haggle” I earlier referred to will no doubt continue to damn my imagination.

DIAN Letter to Fecherklyn dated 19 de septiembre de 2019 – Google translation

Respected contributor,

Giving scope to the notice of the matter sent on July 31, 2019 with consecutive No. xxxxxxxx, inviting to voluntarily standardize the possible omitted assets and/or non-existent liabilities present in its income tax return and supplementary, we inform you that at the time of carrying out the international source checks, it was found that the data submitted do not correspond to your tax identification, for this reason, we appreciate ignoring the invitation referred.

However, we invite you to review your economic reality and if you determine that there is a omission of assets or register non-existent liabilities on your income statement and therefore need to normalize them, do so by filing Form 445 "Tax Return Supplementary to Tax Standardization", before September 25, 2019, using the Entity's electronic computer services.

Remember that the Tax Administration, based on its audit functions, may carry out the relevant checks in order to determine the compliance of the tax obligations by the taxpayers.

The authenticity of this email can be verified by taking the alphanumeric code found on the upper right side of the communiqué, on our page www.dian.gov.co

Kind regards

Asunto: Alcance comunicado No. XXXXXXXXXXX - Invitación a Normalizar activos omitidos y/o pasivos inexistentes

Respetado contribuyente,

Dando alcance al comunicado del asunto enviado el pasado 31 de julio de 2019 con consecutivo No. XXXX, invitando a normalizar voluntariamente los posibles activos omitidos y/o pasivos inexistentes presentes en su declaración del Impuesto sobre la Renta y complementarios, le informamos que al momento de realizar las verificaciones de fuente internacional, se encontró que los datos remitidos no corresponden a su identificación tributaria, por tal motivo, agradecemos hacer caso omiso a la invitación referida.

No obstante, lo invitamos a revisar su realidad económica y en caso de determinar que existe omisión de activos o registró pasivos inexistentes en su declaración de renta y por tanto deba normalizarlos, lo haga presentando el Formulario 445 “Declaración del Impuesto Complementario de Normalización Tributaria”, antes del 25 de septiembre de 2019, utilizando los servicios informáticos electrónicos de la Entidad.
Recuerde que la Administración Tributaria con base en sus funciones de fiscalización, podrá realizar las verificaciones pertinentes con el fin de determinar el cumplimento de las obligaciones tributarias por parte de los contribuyentes.

La autenticidad de este correo la puede verificar tomando el código alfanumérico que se encuentran en el lado superior derecho del comunicado, en nuestra página www.dian.gov.co

Atentamente,

jo12208
  9/19/2019 17:52 EST

I wouldn't be posting sweeping generalizations about anything in Colombia.

EPS..I have Colsanitas EPS in Cali and I can make an appointment with a general doctor for the next day ususally. You can make appointments up until 8 PM at night. All online.

Some banks give different exchange rates for their ATMs at different locations in the same city.


You shouldn't post your generalizations like they apply everywhere because they don't.

tubes
  9/19/2019 18:20 EST

Thanks Fecherklyn;
but what have your DIAN affairs got to do with this EPS topic?

fecherklyn
  9/19/2019 20:39 EST

Tubes,

Things were getting nasty on the "Scary" thread and it was taken down so nobody can post on it. Unfortunately, the letter I received from DIAN answered many of the allegations from forum "disbelievers" (those who state there is nothing to fear from the DIAN) and I wanted to post it so all can see the DIAN is in fact very active.

This thread is another one where my posts about tax and EPS have been rubbished, so I though it fitted quite well here without opening yet another post.

Elexpatriado
  9/20/2019 09:28 EST

I think they just picked on you because they got pizzed off you were bugging them all the time with your incessant questions and disturbing them from watching futbol matches, looking at Instagram models and chatting with their Mozas during work. time

Matter of fact I am sure thats why.

Poke a beehive with a stick too many times you get stung

fecherklyn
  9/20/2019 11:24 EST

@ Elexpatriado

Elexpatriado, thank you very much for your post as I think it explains better than anything I can say as to why disputes occur on this and similar forums.

I do take you as an intelligent person as some of your posts can be interesting and helpful, but would you kindly take a look at what I posted, how you replied and then explain what on earth prompted you to be so unpleasant?

Let me help you see why I feel upset.

In summary, I believe your only reason for contriving your message was to demean your target, me. Is it of help for other members? No.

You hint that the DIAN targets me because I “piss them off with incessant questions”. Absolutely not; neither I, nor my wife who has also received similar communications from the DIAN, have had any direct contact with them over the 19 years we have lived in Colombia. Our tax declarations are prepared by our tax accountants, signed by us electronically, and “fed” into their systems.

You then try to justify your message to forum members that the DIAN is incompetent and unable to “reach” resident expats by labelling them as “watching futbol matches, looking at Instagram models and chatting with their Mozas during work time”. Trump does this all the time; make any allegation that suits your case and then hope it “sticks” because there is no way you can provide any evidence about what you are saying.

What you are doing is not new; taking out your anger on the messenger who brings bad news. Sorry, the “news” actually exists (New laws and tax evasion control procedures) and I am just a “messenger” mostly offering facts and opinion regarding queries made by members. What you are doing is trying to resist the reality of change around you by demeaning its existence.

SkyMan
  9/20/2019 11:43 EST

Tranquilo, Tranquilo, Tranquilo. It may be in everyone's best interest not to take these posts personally. It is.....after all...not a bar fight.
Buena Suerte !

JustSomeGuy
  9/20/2019 12:01 EST

Fecherklyn,

For what it is worth, I find your posts about taxes interesting and informative.

On the other hand I can’t see how bringing up Trump or White House tweets has anything to do with taxes or health insurance. The man’s a dick but his body count is lower than the last two. It would be better for everyone if we don’t argue here about whether late night tweets are worse than late night bombs. We might be able to agree that gratuitous mentions of US presidents does not improve the discussion of EPS or taxes.

mattinnorfolk
  9/20/2019 12:56 EST

Damn that was well said Just Some Guy!!!! Thanks.

Elexpatriado
  9/20/2019 12:57 EST

Fech

Dont take itso personally

Cant live with a little ribbing.?

Cheers

Elexpatriado
  9/20/2019 13:00 EST

PS- I am not angry--

I really dont take it that seriously-LOL

Neither should you

Maybe you should look at afew videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJUhlRoBL8M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU

Elexpatriado
  9/20/2019 13:03 EST

Another PS

I am not a Trump suporter and think he is a bufoon

Allthough I am more conservative than a lot of people

I would describe myself as "libertariaN"

nonames
  9/20/2019 19:22 EST

Xman, Of course you're not a Trump supporter; you're CanaDIAN !

Elexpatriado
  9/20/2019 20:55 EST

well he maybe an idiot but he shines compare to that guevon TURDeau

Wildstubby
  9/21/2019 09:49 EST

Yeah, I haven't seen any photos of President Trump in 'black face'!

nonames
  9/21/2019 11:58 EST

HaHa!

JustSomeGuy
  9/21/2019 13:20 EST

Orange is the new black.

ponymalta
  9/25/2019 13:39 EST

I do appreciate everyone's opinions as I don't know much about the intricacies of EPS etc and lots of different opinions expressed- I think shows how in Colombia things are rarely clear in theory or in practice. between complicated and conflicting rules, poor training and comprehension often in service providers and government personnel,

In any case I think it is helpful all the information , at a minimum shows questions one might ask. Heck I think my wife has health insurance for me but I dont pay attention as I have health insurance outside the country and for anythings serious I would go abroad.

I do remember signing up for health and life insurance the agent coaching me what to say to the nurse and not to worry because she would sometimes split part of her commission with the nurse. The life insurance for someone over 60 very affordable, while under 60 we checked much cheaper in the states.

But thanks to everyone for all the posts , makes me think if nothing else out of intellectual curiosity to see what all the fuss is about.

colarguns
  10/8/2019 22:55 EST

Does the EPS take 12 percent of your pension? I will be receiving SSDI & SSI, and next year moving to Colombia. I used to work in Plan Colombia for four years, but the DOS carried the weight on my medical needs. If it is 12 percent of your income, that seems pretty darn steep! Then another forum, they said roughly $35 per month. If it's 12 percent, I would pay roughly $330 per month, which is insane. Any concrete evidence of what the monthly EPS would be, for a single male, 55 years young, and a Veteran? Thanks

saiid20
  10/9/2019 09:27 EST

This needs a little clearing up....EPS is not mandatory for all...yet, if you work in Colombia...it really is.
They not only assign you an eps...deducy the monthly fees, but also, if you are lucky enough to get a second job...as my wife did you get the same business all over again...yes, two accounts, two payments.........

Andresen
  10/9/2019 09:47 EST

They don't take 12% of mine. And i don't believe my Colombian wife pays anything.

JustSomeGuy
  10/9/2019 11:43 EST

Someone commented at one time that it is 12% of 40% of your income. That works out to 5%.

I don’t have any first hand knowledge of EPS or its cost.

geoffbob
  10/12/2019 08:55 EST

Your comment is vulgar and demeans the idea of a blog like this.

aadigu1234
  10/12/2019 14:57 EST

Any recommendations on healthcare insurance if you are planning to spending two months in Colombia?

JustSomeGuy
  10/12/2019 23:19 EST

GeoffBob said:
“ Your comment is vulgar and demeans the idea of a blog like this”

This is true so I won’t argue the point but I would like to say that while it demeans the idea, the reality is such that it didn’t make it a whole lot worse.
Also, please don’t blame my parents, they did the best they could, sadly the material they had to work with placed severe limits on their success. And, this is more of a message board than a blog.

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