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Resident Visa and EPS

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Bickerss
  10/30/2020 21:18 EST

With a Resident visa, every 5 years a traspaso needs to be completed, where MRE will check that you have fulfilled the relevant obligations ie if you have been out of Colombia for 2 continuous years your residency visa lapses.

I was told today that in order to renew the 5 years stamp, everyone with a resident now needs to prove they have EPS at the correct rate. When I questioned this pertaining to the many people who have resident visas, but are not tax residents, I was told that regardless, you have to have EPS relative to your salary.

So, if someone has a resident visa based on a child, but live in the USA or elsewhere - and say visit Colombia every 6 months for 2 weeks - they have to have EPS? And if your salary is 150,000 USD as an eg, you would need to pay 12.5% of 40% of that?

That does not make sense if you are not a tax resident here. Has anyone applied for this extension recently who is not physically living here?

tubes
  10/31/2020 07:28 EST

This is all part of MRE Bogota's new deal to make visas harder, if not impossible.

It is affecting all classes of visa, usually demanding obscure and often irrelevant additional information.

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Elexpatriado
  10/31/2020 19:59 EST

Bickers

Did people actually renew their visa and ran int o this or this is what they heard?

If that is the case I will be gertting EPS for one (1) month

What if you are on a marriage visa and dont show your income?

Elexpatriado
  10/31/2020 20:00 EST

They would really prefer we dont spend our money in Colombia, I guess...

Electricista
  11/1/2020 13:06 EST

If one has a resident visa based on a Colombian child, or gained a resident visa through the process of being a house husband, it would be very easy to hide one´s foreign income. If one spends the majority of their time outside of Colombia, and provides proof of medical insurance from the country of their passport, Imigracion Colombia would likely give that person a pass on the EPS requirement. Colombia acknowledges the possibility of dual residency. (these are all untested theories)

Scott1
  11/1/2020 14:27 EST

Spoke to a Medellin gringo friend last week who said while renewing his spousal visa he received a message from MRE requesting the following information. 1. Notarized letter from his wife. 2. Income certificate signed by a public accountant. 3. Copy of last 6 months bank statements. 4. Copy of last 6 months EPS payments. He also said 2 of his gringo friends had recently renewed their visa's and shortly thereafter their EPS payments greatly increased.

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bigjailerman
  11/1/2020 14:59 EST

Yes and this is my category for the last 7 years..

Bickerss
  11/1/2020 15:10 EST

Expatriado. I saw various posts by people who tried to renew their visa, have the application denied due to not having the correct EPS. One was a resident visa, and one a Pensioner visa. The latter was denied because he was paying the minimum EPS, and his Social Security check was much more than minimum salary.

The individuals stated that immigration requested 6 months of banks statements and employment contracts / proof.

I asked a question as to if a holder of a resident visa needs to provide EPS proof for an extension (5 years) if he does not live in Colombia ie is a non tax resident. I was told (without proof) that yes you do.

That poses various questions -

1) if you are a non tax resident, why do you need to have EPS, when a Colombian who lives abroad doesn't.

2) If you do need to still provide EPS as a non tax resident, is the EPS based on your world wide income, or Colombian minimum wage (assuming no income is earned in Colombia).

Note = people can have a Resident visa and not live in Colombia, as long as they are not absent for more than 2 years.

EPS based on worldwide income could be hideously expensive if you live here or not. If you earn say 200 k USD a year, then it is based on that x .4 x .12 (although I believe the cap is at 25 x minimum wage) - that is a LOT to pay for EPS if someone is not a tax resident.

For initial applications, you need general insurance for up to a year, according to comments from different individuals.

Bickerss
  11/1/2020 15:13 EST

EPS calculation extract screen shot.

eastern
  11/1/2020 15:14 EST

Did MRE request bank statements from the Gringo US bank? Was income certification US as well?

Bickerss
  11/1/2020 15:19 EST

I am only going on a post by one expat - he wrote, '''......for my Resident Visa, I am required to be part of the EPS which I always was, but you have to verify your income to make sure you are paying the correct amount. The days of one minimum salary are over. As part of the visa renewal, I had to sed someone to the US embassy to verify and notarize my income.....''

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fecherklyn
  11/1/2020 18:23 EST

Finally some of you are coming “on board” - I have been disclosing all this (How much is the EPS payment) for the last two years, but all I got in reply was malice and accusations of lies. Usually I hate people who say “told you so”, but I will allow myself a sly smirk this time.

This subject (Liquidacion de aportes en seguridad social comes under the auspices of Minhacienda, specifically La Unidad de Pensiones y Parafiscales (UGPP), see Articulo 135 de la ley 1753 de 2015 and a number of other spin-offs. In practice, it is UGPP, using its trade name of La Unidad, who will chase you if they have reason to think you are not complying with this law (My wife and I have been controlled several times in the last 2 years)
.
Most of what has already been said in earlier posts is correct. I thought Bickerss remark ….The days of one minimum salary are over.” was particulary appropriate.

The all important question has been raised (Is the EPS cotisation calculated on worldwide incomes, or only Colombian incomes?), but nobody so far has offered a response. What I have to offer is given below:

La Unidad sent my wife and me “Radicados” under the titles “Respuesta Acciones Persuasivas” stating our äportes” did not seem to be in compliance with the incomes disclosed in our annual Colombian tax declarations. We were very concerned as EPS payments based at 12.5% of 40% of our worldwide incomes would have been enormous…..well in excess of what we were paying for our Colsanitas Medicina Prepegada for example (One million peso per month, per person at the moment). We determined to seek legal advice before replying to La Unidad.

Our expensive lawyer was very honest; he said he did not know because this new law was already riddled with needed application explanations for ordinary Colombian citizens, let alone the particularities that may apply to foreign incomes. He advised us to speak with Minhacienda and after enormous hassle we were invited to communicate with Minhacienda Bogota via a secure line within the Minhacienda offices in Medellin. The outcome was favourable, the Bogota officer stated ONLY our Colombian incomes were applicable to the EPS cotisation calculation as it was disclosed in the annual tax declaration. That is what we have been doing ever since and we have had no further problems since
.
Am I confident this is the ultimate word on the subject – Certainly not. If we made the same phone call again today and spoke to someone else……..????!!!!

Lastly, a practical problem in computing your monthly EPS payment; La Unidad EXPECT it to be a true computation base on the REAL incomes for the previous month. In our case, our monthly Colombian incomes vary every month, sometimes wildly and I have had to set up a special Excel spreadsheet just to track these incomes every month….it is a bit like doing an annual tax declaration EVERY MONTH. That is just what we do; nobody else with a sound mind would do what we do!

Bickerss
  11/1/2020 19:25 EST

fecherklyn, thanks for replying. I remember your previous post, and never gave you any flack for it. It was much appreciated information - and made me double check to ensure I never stayed more that 183 days.

I have always been aware that EPS is required for foreign tax residents, however for non tax residents with a world wide income - that is a new animal, if its true (noting what you stated). Even if it is only EPS for local income, how will they apply that to non tax residents - and, for eg, I know individuals who return 1 time every two years for two weeks just to maintain their R visa - how will this be applied. I just cannot fathom a reasonable agency requiring them to contribute to EPS ... I say reasonable with a touch of salt...

fecherklyn
  11/1/2020 19:59 EST

@Bickerss

In case clarification is needed, what I expressed relates to my case as a tax resident with 'Permanent" visa who stays more than 183 days in Colombia every year. I am NOT stating expats in Colombia who not have a residence visa/cedula are required to subscribe to Colombian EPS......I simply do not know (although I would have thought it unlikely).

fecherklyn
  11/1/2020 20:16 EST

I have given extra thought to the question of whether, or not, one should expect to pay EPS equivalent in a country where you do not reside.

I find just about every option exists:

I pay EPS in Colombia because I live there and the amount is based on my local Colombian income, but with a minimum of one monthly salary as the basis
.
My UK pensions are paid without deduction of any medical healthcare charge on the basis I do not reside there
.
My French pensions are paid net a deductions for medical healthcare with a cost graduated on the basis of the amount of my pension. France does not care that I do not reside there, or even visit very often; their documentation simply states I will be eligible for medical care if I visit and need it.

Go figure!

Elexpatriado
  11/2/2020 06:41 EST

I really dont understand why you need a Resident visa if you plan to be here less than 6 months.Just be a tourist.

I wonder if Medicina Prepago payments would suffice?

SmI am sure there is someway around this.

They are obviously not charging new visa applicationts for 6 months EPS record.

Go as tourist fir 6 months apply for new visa with 1 month EPS than quit EPS.

If not , quess I move to Ecuador

No big deal for me

I told you guys not to get married and buy houses and all that crap.

Next they will be embargoing and expropriating your houses and bank accounts.

Elexpatriado
  11/2/2020 06:48 EST

So then if Ihave zero Colombian income I payzero EPS

Sounds good

Bogota
  11/3/2020 09:39 EST

I do not have family, kids, wife, property, nor investments in Colombia. I have a girlfriend but it will never rise to a legal relationship. So although I could simply spend maximum 6 months in Colombia, I would prefer to spend all year here. My idea is not the solution for everyone's situation...but here is what I am considering trying.
I have an M visa that expires in April. I Will leave Colombia prior. I plan to return to Colombia on the passport stamp after April 2 times for a total of 180 days or less. I believe the days in Colombia during the M visa WILL NOT count against the available 180 days as a tourist. That gives me a total of 9 months in Colombia WITHOUT having to get EPS insurance. 9 months is about all I would be here anyway since I also want some time in USA.
Then...early in 2022 I will apply for a new M visa. I think doing it this way the M visa request in 2022 will not be a "renewal" and EPS will not be required. I think the visa will only require a proof of travel insurance that I used for my current visa.
When that new visa expires I will repeat the process of a period entering solely on the passport stamp.
I will still be required to declare renta, I don't see how too legally avoid it. Unless eventually I decide to just limit myself to 6 months max.
This plan will change if I find I am wrong about the details...or...if borders close again and/or travel becomes overly restricted.

Elexpatriado
  11/3/2020 18:12 EST

You are mistaken if you think the time on your visa does not count in the year.

I am on a similar situation. My Visa expires in April as well

We will see how it goes.

Elexpatriado
  11/3/2020 18:15 EST

Also, if it is a new visa and not a renewal, you will still probably have to show you are paying EPS, but you would not have to show previous payments.

So you coud get it for a mont (or 2 maximum) and then cancel.

pascoa2013
  11/3/2020 19:24 EST

I am in the Santa Marta area. Can I get
EPS here, for 2 months and cancel it? (for Visa renewal purposes). All I hear from the locals is about 1 year plans. I have broad insurance coverage from an American insurer, but I have a feeling when I go to renew they will want to see contributions to their sysem.

Bogota
  11/3/2020 20:44 EST

Its hard to know what info is correct...but I have "read" (and I know to say that without sources is lacking) that to get EPS enrollment a cédula is required. And the visa is issued before the cédula. So therefore my opinion that an EPS enrollment can not be expected or required for a visa issuance. But it is just that...an opinion.

Bickerss
  11/3/2020 21:15 EST

Bogota = for your first visa, you do not need to show EPS for the visa application, just insurance at a certain limit for a year. Once the Cedula has been issued, you are required to have EPS if living here as a tax resident.

For your next traspaso (in my case) after 5 years, they are now saying that I could be asked for the EPS payment, and going off peoples posts on other groups - they have been asked to show a HISTORY of paying, that correlates to their tax statement.

I asked an agency today, and they were adamant that its required, and that even though someone doesn't live here as a tax resident, they have to pay the EPS based on worldwide income.

Of course, when I asked for the document that states this, i drew a blank. I would be surprised, even for Colombia, if they really expect foreigners with a R visa who are not tax residents to pay EPS based on world wide income.... but, it is Colombia.

Bogota
  11/3/2020 22:10 EST

Bickerss and Elex..
I have been trying to say that by not renewing my visa, and going a period of time solely on a passport stamp, and then applying for a "new" visa I will never be expected to have EPS at time of application because my cedula will have expired also. Thisis based on info that led me to believe a cédula is required to enroll in EPS. I think this is why the requirement for EPS is only for "renewals".

Elex... I hope I am correct that the days under a visa do not affect days allowed on a passport stamp as it pertains to legal days allowed in Colombia. But I won't be surprised if they do.
If on the other hand you mean that all days count toward tax resident status, i agree that all days do count.

Franklin99
  11/4/2020 01:18 EST

wow, what a holy mess. I'm totally confused, bewildered and confounded. Maybe boring Ecuador doesn't look so bad anymore.

Elexpatriado
  11/4/2020 06:59 EST

Youcan cancel EPS at any time.

Just dont pay.

Everybody pays by the month.

This is all specultion anyway , and dependent on a pérsons individual situación and could all change any time in the next few months.

Cross that bridge when you reach it.

A bit of pre planning a few months before doesnt hurt.

Elexpatriado
  11/4/2020 07:07 EST

Bogota

I hope you are right as well becaause I plan to do the same thing.


But maybe you dont have to wait until the end of the year

Who knowa it is all specultion until you go through the process

Bogota
  11/4/2020 10:14 EST

Elex...if I understand you correctly...excellent point about maybe not having to wait much time to apply. Maybe any lapse..even 1 day..technically would make the application a "new" versus "renewal" visa application.

bigjailerman
  11/4/2020 11:02 EST

Makes sense..

Btw doors anytime know the prices of you are late renewing your residente? I've gotta call the NJ Colombian Embassy today..mmhm

panamajames
  11/4/2020 12:17 EST

Here was my situation.  I got my Colombian Visa through the Colombian Embassy in Panama because that is where I was living at the time and I had Panamanian residency.  I went to Colombia and applied for my Cedula.  The Cedula was approved and I got my card.  I was now a resident of Colombia but there was no mention of EPS.  I wanted EPS and applied for it through SURA.  I went to the appointment, and it seemed as though 1000 other people were there at the same time.  I got called to the desk.  They said to me that I was approved in principle for EPS and the cost is such and such based on my pension and I could use my Banistmo bank card to set up monthly payments.  However there was a glitch.  They told me that within the next 10 days, they would be calling me on my Colombian telephone and interview me in Spanish to see if I was approved at the EPS end.  The problem was that I had a flight booked out of Colombia in the next few days, so we declined.  So far, I have not had any responses regarding EPS from SURA or the Government or anyone and it has been over a year.  So I will find out the situation one day when I make contact again, as I do want EPS insurance unless I can find something better.............

Scott1
  11/10/2020 19:35 EST

Copy and paste from Facebook group, "Expats in Colombia".

Milo Olan

I just learned that in order to renew my Retirement Visa, I must obtain an EPS, at least 6 months before the renewal.
I already pay for SURA Global and the EPS would be an additional 1,800,000 Colombian Pesos, according to my retirement income... this would be a total of approximately 3,000,000 a month.
It is becoming a bit expensive to live here... anyone has had any experience with this?

golferfred
  11/11/2020 09:40 EST

Scott1 is exactly right. The list he posted is exactly what I had to produce in October 2020.

pascoa2013
  11/15/2020 13:29 EST

Where is Scott i's list? Thanks!

pascoa2013
  11/15/2020 13:32 EST

Can you get EPS for a few months and then cancel it after you get your new visa? Thanks for the intell.

Bickerss
  11/15/2020 16:10 EST

golferfred - what list did scott post - he just said he paid EPS.

HarleyRider
  11/17/2020 16:28 EST

Wow! Just jumped in here to see about living in Colombia. What a hassle with all the EPS crap. Apparently they don't want Ex-pats and their money which is fine. Plenty of other fish in the sea as they say!

HarleyRider
  11/17/2020 16:29 EST

Wow! Just jumped in here to see about living in Colombia. What a hassle with all the EPS crap. Apparently they don't want Ex-pats and their money which is fine. Plenty of other fish in the sea as they say!

JustSomeGuy
  11/17/2020 16:37 EST

Scott’s list:
1. Notarized letter from his wife. 2. Income certificate signed by a public accountant. 3. Copy of last 6 months bank statements. 4. Copy of last 6 months EPS payments.

It is in a post near the start of the thread.

SkyMan
  11/18/2020 14:05 EST

Actually reading all of the posts in a thread is a good thing. Stay Well. Buena Suerte !

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