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Covid restriction letting up

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filmsmurf
1/25/2021 13:11 EST

Studys now show that it isn't going to go away, much like the flu or common cold.
Every year they are predicting it will resurface once or twice a year, people will get sick, some get better, some don't.

Is there talk of returning to normal either via vaccines or just from everyone getting antibodies?

Wearing masks for the rest of our lives just doesnt seem like a good way to live, but what to do?

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polsan
1/25/2021 23:26 EST

Filmsmurf, just ignore it and live as if nothing happened. Covid is a global hoax to introduce the new world order. Seasonal flu kills much more people every year around the globe than this "terrible deadly" covid. It's all hugely exaggerated. And don't wear mask if you don't want a serious health complications like lung hypoxia, fungal lung infection, limited oxygen intake to your body but especially brain.

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filmsmurf
1/26/2021 14:26 EST

I appreciate you posting to my topic.

Are you seeing any easing of the restrictions in Ecuador? Cuenca specifically?

If someone doesn't wear a mask, are they arrested or ticketed?

Are there people who dont wear them or wont?

What would happen if you walked into a Mercado or Supermaxi without one?

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Kimac
1/26/2021 15:38 EST

(cont.)

People are people everywhere, and those here are getting tired of this stuff along with everyone else. The govt was empowered to institute a 'state of emergency' last year which has expired, and now it's up to localities to keep doing the right thing. That there are no bodies in the street means, to some people, it's all a hoax. The hospitals are full in Quito and Cuenca: enough said. People may get those bodies those bodies they've been asking for, to get them pay attention a bit longer.

People are more frequently testing fate by eating and talking without masks these days, and as they get away with it they will be emboldened to do even less. There has been a $100 fine in Cuenca for not having a mask, but I'm sure enforcement is not as strict as it once was. Latin America is particularly prone to being forgiven in such things, now that everyone, everywhere, has become tired of the covid show. That these new strains have been identified does not offset the boredom, and the fact that people are ready to move-on. Like everyone else, Ecuador stands to catch it as the bug reasserts itself in the wake of people's complacency. That we are bored with the bug does not mean it is bored with us, and even now we can expect a new and bigger wave to be building.

Resisters I'm sure exist. After all, even I haven't seen anyone die. This is all just one big abstraction that makes one have to think too much, whose dramatic value is spent, and frankly we're all just bored with it all.

There are guards at the Mercados who take temps and spray hands; at supermaxi employees will do so. In either case you would provoke a scene if you just tried to bluster your maskless way in (after all, you're an American, right?)

How such a scene resolves I wouldn't want to stick around to watch. Clueless Americans are an embarrassment.

I suspect we're both bored and with nothing better to do, when at least these answers are, or should be, obvious.

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kmoriarty45
1/26/2021 15:45 EST

The restrictions are NOT loosening! Because of the recalcitrance of some, - such as the previous poster - to adhere to the rules and requests, the virus is once again starting to flare up in many cities. Masks ARE REQUIRED for shopping in stores and the mercados. You can be ticketed by the municipal police for refusing to don your mask and will be refused entry into Malls, SuperMaxi, TIA, etc. if you aren't wearing one.

Driving and business curfews are still in place in many cities and as difficult as it is to conform to, social distancing is required for queues, and on public transportation, and in restaurants. Bars and discos are still closed in most areas.

Many stores and businesses are still spritzing you before you enter and making you step into a shoe disinfectant.

If you are traveling or are just "out and about", it is a good idea to carry either a small bottle of alcohol spy or gel to disinfect yourself.

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filmsmurf
1/26/2021 16:24 EST

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

Sounds like Ecuador still believes that if they mask and spray people they will save lives, and possibly they will. Who really knows?

I suppose this would be true with any bug/virus/illness that is contagious. If the population is all wearing medical masks, and wearing the properly, then some that would have caught the flu from a passerby, may not.

Of course there are some that read medical studies in the JAMA and believe that because virus' are microscopic, if you can smell odors through your mask, virus' could easy get through. My employer jokingly says "If I can peel an orange and you can smell it, your mask wont stop a virus".
They may very well be right.

That would explain why some of the most mask-strict areas in the states are having some of the largest flare ups. (California for example)

I'll admit, I have a hard time imagining that the world will always be masked up. I long for the time when we can take them off, smile at one another and give each other a cold the old fashioned way. :D

Thanks for letting us know how things are going there. We wish you all well. We will see how the next several months go.

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Kimac
1/26/2021 18:25 EST

Black & White thinking will frustrate people hoping to make good decisions re covid. Good luck.

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LeapFrog
1/26/2021 23:07 EST

Thanks for this thread filmsmurf, it is exactly the info I have been trying to get.

Having my hands spritzed, shoes disinfected and temperature taken prior to entering a store is an unacceptable way to live in my view.

polsan, please let me know which part of the country you stay in and what you have to put up with there in terms of protocols. I think it was mentioned before that Vilcabamba is not as strict.

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Ramshomerfan
1/26/2021 23:15 EST

Here’s a thought. Don’t go to the store that wants to help fight Covid. You may not be a believer but please don’t impose your beliefs on the Ecuadorian people that are attempting to curb this pandemic. The last thing they want to see are gringos who believe they’re above the local population. Be respectful and remember you’re just a visitor in their county. Set a great example for expats.
In my humble opinion,
Chris

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polsan
1/26/2021 23:21 EST

I'm not there, I was thinking about moving to Ecuador but the madness is unacceptable. And compulsory vaccinations will be unavoidable. Nicaragua is much more relaxed, so I probably will be moving there.

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LeapFrog
1/26/2021 23:41 EST

In my own humble opinion, this is precisely why I need to gather this info in advance. A big surprise on such an important issue is not a good thing. Do people living there agree that vaccination is likely to be mandatory, based on your familiarity with the culture and government?

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Ramshomerfan
1/26/2021 23:55 EST

I think just like in the US there’s a mixed bag of beliefs. However, I think as expats, or visitors in another country, we should adhere to the local government and business protocols during the pandemic regardless your personal beliefs??

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LeapFrog
1/27/2021 07:21 EST

I appreciate the replies and hope there are more. Perhaps different areas have different rules. I have made inquiries and this is the first I have heard of anything beyond masks, closed businesses and curfews.

I am looking for complete information regarding the rules and protocols, and would appreciate informed speculation regarding mandatory vaccination in order to make my own informed decisions.

I am not interested in debating compliiance or what the rules ought to be. Too many assumptions are being made from your own preconceptions.

I suggest that a person who refuses to abide by rules would probably not make too deep an inquiry into them.

Thank you.

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user001
1/27/2021 08:36 EST

Things are not loosening here in Ecuador. Health service is on the bring after increased cases after Christmas / New year.

Talk of mini lockdowns coming in for Carnival to avoid festivities and talk of another strict long lockdown if cases continue their uptick pushing hospitals to near breaking point.

To people questioning whether masks and hand cleaning works, have a word with yourselves. All Drs / nurses in infectious wards wear masks and regularly wash / sanitise hand because it is proven science. There is no debate about this. None at all.

If you think you can come here, and flout the rules, do be warned. Local people see foreigners thinking they are above the rules, putting their eldery and infirm relatives at risk. In areas where foreigners behave like this, animosity is growing with the local populations. A once very welcoming people are not going to be so welcoming in the future.

Poverty is on the increase, hardship is on the increase. In times such as these, rightly or wrongly it is human nature to look around for someone to blame.

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polsan
1/27/2021 09:28 EST

Many people around the world need to switch off TVs and switch on thinking.
Sheeple needs to wake up and understand what is really happening in the world under the cover of this fake pandemic- the plandemic
https://vrevealed.com/covid/trailer/buttar/?sub4=116e3d980aec48f2961a8621c5ba24c9&afid=57

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desertcogo
1/27/2021 10:23 EST

Ramshomerfan, I completely agree with you. The last thing I want to see is gringos or any other expat come here and thumb their noses to the rules the government has in place for dealing with the virus. If anyone in any other country believes otherwise, they need to stay where they are because they are NOT WANTED here.

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filmsmurf
1/27/2021 12:14 EST

All of your input is greatly appreciated. Being kind to everyone is the most important thing every time.

Our opinions don't matter when we are in a foreign country. We should be respecting their rules and I know that everyone here agrees with that.

The thread is about what is really happening on the street?
I believe we have answered that.

Restrictions have NOT eased and no one knows what the govt of Ecuador will do next; ie easing, vaccinations etc.

Our opinions about what they should do is irrelevant. It's not our call when on foreign soil.

Please feel free to use this thread going forward to post what is ACTUALLY happening as far as rules, restrictions, travel limitations etc. If anyone has visited the hospital or been in the ICU, please let us know what they are seeing.

Please do not use this forum to post opinions about whether its real or fake, what happened to the flu, or politics and keep insults to yourself. We know that there are wildly varying opinions about these things and I would like to keep them off here. Kindness. Please.

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filmsmurf
1/27/2021 12:39 EST

Very clearly it not acceptable to go disrespecting another country's rules of any kind.

We should also tone down the rhetoric about this person's beliefs.

If we have learned anything, it's that black and white thinking is immature at best and divisive at worst. In every city or group of people you can find people who are pro-government and those that are antigovernmental.

Live and let live, right? Kindness?

Yes please.

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gyuris
1/31/2021 15:28 EST

filmsmurf:
I am a licensed emergency health-care worker.
Please don’t spread misinformation implying that mask being useless against spreading or contracting COVID-19 microorganisms.
While mask effectiveness is spurring all kinds of conversations worldwide and causing unnecessary controversy, anybody with a modicum of high school level education in basic science will know that is bunk. —
Some posts circulating online, like yours, are claiming that since you can smell things like food or smoke through a cloth mask, the covering will not filter the coronavirus. That's false, and only proves that you are misinformed about the size of a virus and the size of the molecules causing a smell.

The particles that cause odors are extremely tiny MOLECULES. Although the COVID-19 virus is a very tiny microscopic microorganism it still is much, much more complex and much larger than the molecules that would cause odors to be smelled. Each single virion ( a single virus) is composed of millions of molecules.

In fact, there is no way you can prevent an odor molecule coming into your nose unless you weren't able to breathe.

With that said, no mask is proven to keep the coronavirus out 100% of the time. That's why THE CORRECT WAY you use your mask is very important.

When it comes to masks for the everyday person, experts recommend cloth coverings with as many layers as possible. The most effective types are the N95 and the plain old blue single-use surgical mask but in any case any barrier is better than no barrier at all.

— IMPORTANT NOTE: I see some misinformed people wearing masks with valves, for example, some cloth masks have tiny valves incorporated in the mask, or some are wearing industrial painter’s masks with the two huge breathing filter valves on either side that make you look like Darth Vader. Those type of industrial masks are not effective against spreading the virus, and are are not meant to be used outside of the industrial environment. Any mask with a breathing valve only protects the person wearing the mask, but NOT the persons around him, since the filtering valves on the mask only filter the air being inhaled, but not the air being exhaled. — that is the reason why most airlines will not allow you to board wearing a mask with valves.

Bottom line: Any mask or face covering with greater than two layers is going to reduce the chance of transmitting or receiving COVID-19 at least by half if not more so.

Please don’t spread false information and fake theories discouraging people from wearing masks during this pandemic. You are causing much harm and even posssibly deaths by doing so.

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filmsmurf
1/31/2021 16:30 EST

Thank you for you reply.

On the surface it appears that the most heavily masked areas such as NY and California are having the highest rates of outbreak. I wonder why?

Then there is the study of millions of patients recently published in JAMA showing asymptomatic transmission at .07%, which it well below nominal. Out of 10,000 infected, asymptomatic patients, only 7 of the might be shedding? There is literally a better chance you will be hit by lightning. A recent exhaustive study published by about 40 internal med docs also shows children at virtually zero transmission rate.

So why are people who aren’t sick wearing masks? My neighbor is a pulmonologist and tells me the CDC has been wrong from the start and published methods of treatment that were literally killing patients, so they switched to what they knew about treating lung disease and presto! Patients started surviving at a rate much better than the flu. He said then that healthy people should not be wearing masks. Turns out he was right. This is a pulmonologist mind you.

He says If you’re sick stay home. Wear a mask when around others. If you’re healthy, don’t. That’s what the pulmonologist, and dozens of doctors published in JAMA say. Sorry, but I think the recently published science as well as the advice of a fellow of pulmonology is the science I’ll follow. Keep reading!

Of course we on foreign land should always follow the rules of the country we are in. It doesn’t mean we have to drink the koolaid.

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polsan
1/31/2021 21:54 EST

filmsmurf you are spot on in every sentence. This whole pandemic is a huge exaggeration. The seasonal common flu has much higher killing rate than this covid virus.
Here is a large collection of pandemic debunking materials from doctors and scientists who are not afraid to tell the truth. An eye opener for those who still believe that we have a killer virus raging around the world. Yes that virus is called "mainstream media". Switch off your TV's people and there is no pandemic. https://concernedlawyersnetwork.net/Exhibits/

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Kimac
2/1/2021 07:54 EST

Back in the day, one didn't have to be able to outrun a hungry lion: only to run faster that at least one other guy. Things were so much simpler, direct, and unambiguous.

With modernity the question how the becomes how the herd might yet be culled, or whether human civilization in the aggregate, is on a collision course with negative time and space.

This thread is illustrative of how the system seems to be self-correcting for a lack of lions. Hallaleuh.

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remoore2001
2/1/2021 14:54 EST

If you all don't want to follow the rules that Ecuador has set out, then just stay away. They don't need your superior American attitude here. Also could you all please stop telling us how you all know so much more than the scientist. I for one don't need you to tell me what I should think or how I should act. We all know that a few of you are geniuses that know better than the rest. But please just let us mortals stew in our ignorance and it's OK that you are superior. Other wise, let everyone make up their own mind and quit trying to tell us what to think.
And again, if you don't want to follow the rules here, stay away

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kmoriarty45
2/1/2021 16:08 EST

Couldn't have said it any better, remoore2001 !

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user001
2/3/2021 07:40 EST

I love the attitude "wake up sheeple" and "do your own research" and "don't believe what you read" and "they are lying to you"....

Followed by a "here's an article, made up by an unknown person with no background in the topic they are talking about, making false claims, with a piss poor understanding of scientific endeavour and conflating small correlation with causation. They sample study is tiny and would not holdup to any peer review scunity BUT THIS IS THE TRUTH".

All these people, let's be honest, err on the side of lesser educated and have no scientific background.

The internet is a fantastic medium, a true oracle of our times. But lets face it, it's mostly good for p0rn, poker, pills and talking bullsh1t.

Why do people believe articles put out by unknown publishers who face no liability for their output, against orders of magnitude more evidence, from established sources, who do have a liability for their content, that has been peer reviewed and reputations back?

All these people, and I include those in this thread, have a serious deficit in critical thinking.

@polsan @filmsmurf you have a severe illness, lets say cancer. You get help from 100 Drs. 99 say the same thing, you have cancer, you need this medical care. But one (who is a dentist) says "no you don't have cancer, those other people are lying to you, you need some teeth work, nothing else". Who would you go with? That is about the dumbness of your arguments.

You are not truth seekers, you are not enlightened, you are not showing anything to anyone, except your own high levels of ignorance and stupidity. And that's the truth. Honestly. I don't say this to mock you, but to encourage you to step back a moment and just think about what nonsense you post and believe. Maybe there is still time for you.

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polsan
2/3/2021 08:43 EST

@user001 Almost every government in the world now has a one or two medical advisors ("experts" in covid pandemic) who do all the brainwashing of public on mainstream media. And then there are some 80 thousands of real doctors around the world who have nothing to gain but a lot to lose by speaking the truth. Who would you trust? those government heavily paid "experts" or the doctors who stick to their Hippocratic oath?
Here are all the facts of this "pandemic" prepared by World Doctors Alliance
http://online.anyflip.com/inblw/ufbs/mobile/index.html?s=08

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Restingnow
2/3/2021 13:02 EST

Greetings,

This is mainly directed to @filmsmurf.

I went to JAMA and searched Covid-19 asymptomatic transmission .07%, but was not able to identify this study that you're quoting. Incidently, I believe that .07% equals 7 in 10,000. Can you give us the correct title of this study please? I sense a cherry-pick, and an agenda in interpretation.
Yes, CDC did make mistakes in early treatment recommendations. They were pretty much flying blind then, but I believe they've made the required course corrections, based on the best science. That's their job.
I have to wonder how accurate your (respiratory illnesses) M.D. neighbor's 1 sentence analysis has been, both in substance and in your passing it on.
As for @polsan, I checked the sites you've posted. Fringe area at best. Not credible, but believe what you want.
Can anyone make an unbiased, objective review of all the covid-19 data and honestly say this isn't a serious health concern... that precautions aren't necessary? Good luck to you, but please don't cough in my direction.

Best wishes.

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Kimac
2/3/2021 13:56 EST

There's a lot that's will remain unknown about this 'novel' virus for some time, as it's impossible to do much investigatory research while docs are up to their ass in alligators, and all that's readily forthcoming is observation stuff. Still those are helpful.

The original Chinese research has largely held up about infection and morbidity rates. Sure, there are differences, but its all within the margin of error. This is the sort of bottom line data needed to have a sense of how much we individually may want to throw the dice. Even then, the real question will be about the judgement of individuals reading that data.

For example, in considering the judgment of whoever it was who got the skinny from his next door neighbor "a pulminologist" while taking out the trash. That's what's known, at best, as a sample of 1: it's irrelevant. What that guy said would be only slightly more bankable than what I heard last night from the cabbie on the next barstool, who shared several opinions with me while knocking back a few before his shift began.

We could on and on and on, and it really would be kinda pointless. There's more to being educated than having the minimal literacy necessary to read gun care instructions..

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filmsmurf
2/3/2021 16:46 EST

For Restingnow.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2774102

Read. If 5% of patients are asymptomatic, and only .07% of asymptomatic patients are shedding, then out of 2,000,000 people, 7 are shedding the virus as asymptomatic.

7 in 2,000,000.

40,000 people die of urinary tract disease and diarrhea each year in Ecuador.

We are talking about the logic behind 10's of thousands of poor people who live day to day being out of work while their families starve literally to death.

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filmsmurf
2/3/2021 16:48 EST

@ Kimac

You equate the medical experience of your cabby to a Pulmonologist.

mkaaay.

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Kimac
2/3/2021 17:45 EST

Yeah, in terms of understanding the research and rendering a bankable opinion about covid, not a lot of difference between ANY two opinions until you get to someone with a genuine specialization AND current involvement. Even then, I'd look for a consensus, which you will hear from guys like Fauci (I can hear it now: But, but, but...he's so SHORT!!!)

To split hairs a bit further, your pulmonologist would also be an internist, so he/she would be able to make a better GUESS than a radiologist, for example, on how bodily systems might be reacting to the bug. For example, when it comes to things like immune system over-reactions, which seem to be a particular problem with covid. At this point, however, even that would be a small detail. This bug is just too novel.

Through educated guesses, those actually treating covid patients seem to be feeling their way toward more effective treatments, but that's not the same as solid, reliable research.

Unless your pulmonologist friend was in the trenches, I would take his/her opinions with a BIG grain of salt. It's hard to get past that awkward business of n=1.

Actually, this was all directly pressed on me afresh by brother of good friend who is a recently retired vascular surgeon (again, n=1, but some n's are better than others). He would also be an internist, so at least he's also got a deeper degree of training in the "known" (versus the "novel") that might be helpful. Trouble is that he was cutter, not someone who has ever developed much skill in medical detective work: or even that much work with ongoing treatment--certainly not with covid.

When I mentioned having scanned research that seems to suggest covid is more a vascular condition, he educated me to how speculative pretty much everything is at this point. Bear in mind, this is a smart guy now sitting in his study all day, reading what research there is as it dribbles out, whose career experience now does him precious little good (his words), except to be able to read this stuff with a bit more circumspection. Whatever else may or may not be true, at least he is an educated consumer of the current info.

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remoore2001
2/3/2021 18:51 EST

Hey all, sit back and wait. I'm meeting my Podiatrist and a Acupuncturist for shots and beer tonite. I'll have the real facts for you all tomorrow. That's about how intelligent you two tin hatters sound. As I said before, don't want to play by the rules, stay away. And quit pushing your garbage on the rest of us. You two are pitiful

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remoore2001
2/3/2021 19:04 EST

By the way filmsmurf and polsan. You two remind me of some of the people that use to post regularly on here ten years ago. At that time they were advocating that everyone stop their cancer treatment and drink some holistic slop that would surely cure everyone. You two are the biggest joke that have graced these threads in many years. Go back to your tin hat pages and talk to those with the same lack of sense.

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kmoriarty45
2/3/2021 20:27 EST

remoore2001

One of those holistic heroes from back then - who was also into all sorts of conspiracy intrigues - died rather painfully, if it's one of the two I'm thinking of.

While those know-it-alls were amusing for their ignorance and belligerence, they certainly aren't missed and did nothing to either assist newcomers and potential ex-pats on this forum or further the planet, for that matter.

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LeapFrog
2/3/2021 22:15 EST

Somebody took the time to compile a video timeline through 2020 of "masking science" direct from official sources. This video will trigger cognitive dissonance as the official word is contrary to what you think.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/bT8NaTSEBFdZ/

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Ramshomerfan
2/4/2021 00:38 EST

I think this thread should just be about Ecuador. Stop this political craziness. Go spread your conspiracy theories on Facebook.

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Restingnow
2/4/2021 13:27 EST

Did you make a mistake, Filmsmurf, in listing that JAMA article? What came up was a meta-analysis of 54 studies totalling 78K patients. (millions and millions???) It states that transference of Covid is "significantly increased between household members when one is symptomatic or asymptomatic."
The accompanying JAMA study that came up in my search titled, SARS-CoV-2 Transmission from People Without COVID-19 Symptoms states in it's conclusions that, "... transmissions from asymptomatic individuals was estimated to account for more than half (59%) of all transmissions."

Where in the world are these numbers (5% of .07?) coming from??? A less trusting person would think that you're just having a go with us and making this stuff up. I know you've flat-out exaggerated some of this. You're not a pro, are you?

And Leapfrog, your video confirms the need and benefit of wearing a well-fitting quality mask.

Hey, back to resting now. :-) Enjoy.

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LeapFrog
7/21/2021 14:19 EST

Can we get an update please? Especially in Vilcabamba would be appreciated - how is life there right now?

Are they still disinfecting hands and shoes and taking temperatures before entering businesses? Is there talk of mandatory needles?

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cheshirecat4591
7/21/2021 14:38 EST

Masks are still legally required throughout the country. Also yes, temp taking and social distancing is also still part of the national laws. Loja is going to be starting a restriction that only those who can prove they've been fully vaccinated are allowed in restaurants, bars, etc. With the Delta variants have arrived in EC there are more restrictions coming.

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Expats in Guayaquil report a variety of opinions regarding what it's like to live there. It offers a very warm and humid climate for sun lovers, but others find the heat stifling. Similarly, crime is a major concern of some, while others find that it's perfectly acceptable with proper precautions.

8-Tips-for-Living-in-Cuenca,-Ecuador8 Tips for Living in Cuenca, Ecuador

Many expats in Cuenca, Ecuador love the city's climate, friendly people and low cost of living. Other expats find that this developing city's bland food, dirty streets and noisy neighborhoods are too much to take.

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