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peddington
  7/16/2017 11:00 EST

Whatever you do if you live in Hungary DON'T order merchandise from a non-EU country! I recently ordered a cell phone for my step daughter from China. The cost was $42 (half price) with free shipping. This was not an issue before due to the low amount but the Hungarian government stopped letting through low cost/small shipments (I suspect mostly electronics) and now imposes customs fees, VAT/AFA which on electronics is a whopping 30% (27% AFA/VAT and a 3% surcharge). My item has arrived in Hungary 2 1/2 weeks ago. I received some paperwork which I filled out, copied my passport, included my bill (actual payment for the phone). I got an answer that the Hungarian Post office will transfer this precious cargo to Customs for customs fee etc and will take 8-10 days (a miracle itself because many things in Hungary can take up to 30 days). It's been 6 days since that notice and nothing yet. In the end it will cost somewhere between 4,000 to 7,000 forints to get the phone but in my estimation it is NOT WORTH IT! At this point I just rather they send it back and I get my $42 back from the credit card company...NO TAX/CUSTOMS for the GOVERNMENT but will see. Keep you posted! As of right now I would say order from a company with a EU warehouse. Yes the item will be a little more expensive but you won't have to wait 4 weeks and deal with the paperwork!......just one person's experience! What's yours?

Tomrock
  7/17/2017 05:57 EST

Hi Peddington,

According to the law the exempt from VAT is 22 euro. Anything abouve that you will to pay VAT and thats all over the EU (not just Hungary).

I am buying small stuff for less than 10$ and never had a problem. Once I wanted some Led lamps, It's 8$ a piece so I bought one. waited a weak bought another one and I did that for 5 times. If I bought it together I would have to pay VAT and other stuff... but what I did is perfectly legal. In any case if I buy something and the post office asks me to fill forms and stuff I will tell them NO THANKS, send it back I don't care.

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borschelrh
  7/17/2017 06:51 EST

I have experienced the same thing and have seen very different tax rates. I think it averages 35% for electronics stuff from China. However, there are ways around this. If you purchase from sites that maintain European warehouses then you avoid the Hungarian customs duties. Bangood, Gearbest have these among others. Or you can purchase from Amazon.de and it will still be coming from China but laundered through a Polish warehouse. Some sites will allow you to pay a bit more and they do a transhipment through Sweden for a slightly additional fee and once again you avoid customs. The Chinese are smart people and apparently have no problems cheating the tax man. Personally, I think a 27% VAT is atrocious and it pushes people to try and get around it. I thought it was a good idea when trying to get the IMF and World Bank loans paid off which was the intent. That happened a long time ago now so it is time to drop the VAT back to something reasonable like 16%. People will generally not cheat if the tax is reasonable such as happened in Russia when they dropped their income tax to a flat rate of 13%. Of course, as long as politicians are lining their pockets this will never happen.

Tomrock
  7/17/2017 07:52 EST

borschelrh,

Next year is election year. I think that Orban lost a lot of support because of his actions (CEU, Sunday shopping....) so, he might lower the VAT to gain support before the election.

borschelrh
  7/17/2017 13:06 EST

Maybe, but I doubt it. If anything certain items might get temporarily reduced but I don't expect any dramatic changes. He will win because of the immigration policy and his opposition to Soros. The polls (arguably and especially unreliable in Hungary) show Fidez solidly in the lead. Itn is still a long ways off though and anything can happen. Hosting the NATO exercises is an enormous mistake. He will make others. Here in Balatonfured where they installed at some insane expense "free" wifi just for the FINA swimming competition (which to do so they tore up our recently newly installed sidewalks (his son-in-law of course owns that company) and are now crapified with asphalt) is of such low bandwidth they (Lazar) ordered all spectators to stop using the free wifi service as it is interfering in the actual data processing for the competition. I imagine it is the same in Budapest and I am wondering how much of that money (I think 65 billion forints) ended up in politician's pockets instead of for the actual work product. It is very similar to what happened in Russia for the Sochi Olympics so Hungary is not unique. Maybe it is things like that which might rain on his parade. The FIDEZ idiots have no lack of appetite for avarice. It reminds me of the book I used to read my kids "If you give a mouse a cookie...".

Tomrock
  7/17/2017 15:48 EST

In Budapest they built an ugly swimming complex on the banks of the Danube... waste of money, no one gives a F about the Fina sh!t (anyway it's peanuts compare to Sochi).

I hope the elections are not rigged...like in Russia.

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peddington
  7/17/2017 17:08 EST

Of course you are right but once government get's used to the money likely they don't want to give it up. Interestingly the Romanians of all people rolled back the VAT/tax. Go figure! Good for them! Here in Hungary they will just build more soccer stadiums.......

peddington
  7/17/2017 17:10 EST

Thanks! indeed. I already told them to send it back if it will take a few more weeks and more than 30% of my actual cost! Live and learn...

Grazka
  7/18/2017 01:12 EST

Exemption is 22 euro in all EU but if you go over 22e they want vat here from whole amount not what's over 22e. And they adding to the value of the parcel also the postage..I think for people who are buying from eBay or from not a business the limit is 50 usd inc postage.
In reality in 99% if value of your parcel is up to $40 here they don't want anything form u and deliver your parcel with out any costs to you. .And I'm doing the same if happens they want vat from me ...I'll send them email saying return to sender.
Problem is that is not only vat 27% but also post office charging for themselfs 2500 huf ...what's its more then I pay for the postage ( often I buy from iherb or vitacost where the postage is $4-10 ).
Options are 1/ if possible and cheaper then paying vat ,order in few smaller parcels or 2/ ask seller to decler smaller amount.Businesses don't do( some exceptions) but individuals mostly will do.

peddington
  7/20/2017 09:46 EST

So here is the end of the story about the cell phone I ordered. After the phone has been in the hands of Hungarian authorities for 3 yes three weeks there was no resolution on a crappy 11,000 forint (42 USD mobile phone) OMG! They build soccer stadiums faster in Hungary...but that's another story! After A lady from the Post office asked for the bill of sale which I already sent them ...well I had just about enough. I told them to forget it and I'm not waiting any longer to pay them 34.5% of the value of the phone but that is what I fugured (27% VAT/AFA, 3% surcharge and 2,500 forint Postal Handling fee...whatever that means) to the 42 USD it came out to 34.5%. Of course I was able to figure that out in about a minute yet the Hungarian postal authorities couldn't in 3 weeks! HOW RIDICULOUS IS THAT!? I guess my options are to either find a merchant with EU warehouse or buy locally! I WILL NEVER ORDER AGAIN! The Hungarian system is a nightmare!!! Well I figured I share it with you so you won't have to experience it!

borschelrh
  7/20/2017 13:21 EST

Yes, it comes to 35% which is what I always end up paying. It is hit and miss but more often they catch it. You have to figure out the actual value including the 35% before you order it. If that is ridiculous which sometimes it is) then find a better source in Europe. I notice that when they use a European warehouse the price goes up maybe 10% which to me is acceptable. We got too used to the US system of favored nation status which means no tariffs. That is also ridiculous and if you think about it until WWI we had no income tax in America and all federal revenue was obtained through excise taxes. We also have no VAT which would be a nightmare but instead we have often exorbitant "sales" taxes. In upstate New York I saw sales taxes of 30% (in Ithaca) so it isn't all that different. But, we have no property tax or death tax here in Hungary which is a big deal. I was looking to buy a house in Connecticut for a job offer I had at Plum Island and the property tax was a flat 4% per year. On a $500,000 house that means I would have been paying $20,000 a year in taxes alone. As it was a lateral transfer within the US government I turned it down just to save on those nutty taxes. I did have a second house in Hilton Head Island and my taxes were $8,000 a year and my hurricaine insurance was another $8000 so $16000 a year just to be able to live there. We dumped that place and moved to Hungary instead. I don't begrudge a country to tax its imports, especially when the prices are ridiculously low. On the other hand Hungarian businesses gouge their customers mercilessly. So, I mostly use Amazon in Germany and have typically next day delivery. For example there is an e-bike conversion I am interested in. If I bought a rebranded kit in Hungary it would cost me over 500,000 HUF. If I bought it in China it would be $800 but then I would have to add 35% to that (plus shipping) so $1180. But, there is a vendor in Greece who sells it for $800 and a Chinese seller with a European warehouse who also sells it for $800 with a flat $100 shipping fee. So, $900 must be correct and they still make a profit so it is reasonable (enough but I am waiting for something less expensive or to just build my own). But the Hungarian company wants over $1800 for the exact same item. If you allow for the 27% VAT then they are still too high by at least $300.

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peddington
  7/20/2017 16:25 EST

So refreshing "Bor" to hear you chime in! Hope you are well Brother@ So true! The taxes are just ridiculous! And I know from experience that the local are sort of "numb" to it! I guess because the genius of it is that the VAT/AFA is already in the price! In the US and many other places I suspect the tax is added on at the cash register. Seems to me a kind of a "frog in the pot" situation. LOL!

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