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Sergios
  6/12/2018 06:44 EST

Expat Fatigue
Since people look onto this forum for guidance to how to make the move to Italy, perhaps this forum should also discuss the problem of Expat Fatigue. NeoExpats are full of hope, wonder, anxiety, sense of adventure, willingness to new experiences and tastes and meeting new people. When you first make your move everything is new. Everything is a challenge to be solved. The amazing restaurants with wonderfully fresh fish and vegetables, the incredible variety of local and regional wines, the exotic scenery and the wonderfully mild weather vindicates that difficult decision that you had to make to make the move. There are problems. There are always problems but they are quaint and humorous. Waiting online at the post offices while the customer at the only open window discusses her life with the teller who does not appear to have any urgency. Having to wait hours with immigrants to see government officials so you can get the documents you need only to find out that the officials had to go to another city to process the latest boat load of immigrants, is also quaint. After all what else do you have to do with your time?………………… Overtime things and attitudes change. The new and exotic becomes the old and mundane. All those restaurants now appear to have the same few dishes with only aesthetic differences but basically its all the same food. That huge variety of local and regional wines do not include the great wines of the world, just the same local stuff all the time. If you want a California Chardonnay or a Rhone Cote Rotie, you’re out of luck. Those quaint driving habits of the locals become reason for road rage on your part when you finally recognize that its actually incompetence behind the wheel. And then you really get angry when you consider that for you to get a license you have to go to driving school knowing that you already drive better than most of the people on the roads. That includes the police……………….. It’s not so much home sickness. Two weeks in the States proves to me that its not the USA that I miss. It’s the reason I became an expat in the first place. Its the New, the exotic, the change, the new experiences. Those things are easily found and more easily lost. Its important to consider this when making your plans. Are you leaving your old home because you’re tired of the same old, same old? Well then you are likely to find it again wherever you go. For me the solution is to keep moving. Give each place a few years and then seek some other place. Its not a longterm solution because eventually I will be too old to keep doing that but for now that is the plan. I understood this from the beginning and that is why we have not purchased a home. We rent so that we can easily un-rent and move on. Thats my solution but it may not be yours. However I just wanted to let the NeoExpats know about this. Looking forward to others points of view.

GeoffK
  6/12/2018 07:10 EST

An interesting article and one I can relate to having lived in four countries. The rent and move approach has some appeal. I will be interested to read other expats thoughts and experiences..

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TheresaIT
  6/12/2018 07:34 EST

Dear Sergios,

I can relate to, and identify, with some of your frustrations. I arrived a year ago, grinning from ear to ear, but then, life happens, and you settle in, pay the bills, go grocery shopping, wait in long lines at the post office (at least one of the more modern one's in my area has seats - can't say that for NYC or Seattle!), and so forth. The quote by Zen meditation teacher and author, Jon-Kabat Zinn, comes to mind "Wherever you go, there you are."

The same issues faced "at home," are the ones we confront no matter where we are. For me, life is so much easier in the US, (starting a business, shopping without lunch time closures, lower taxes, speaking the language, etc.), but is not where I choose to live - at the moment, anyway. So, how do we stay present, and make life fresh, in every the moment? Although not always easy or apparent, I think the answer to the question is the key.

I don't currently have a car, although I have a license from the US and have been driving for more than 45 years. (I do grumble a bit at the need to jump through the hoops and meet the requirements to get my Italian driver's license, but then here's where I choose to live - and I do my best to adjust - like anywhere - not everything is to my liking (-: I've often felt the same way living in "The States."

I do have the need for adventure; and so, I too, have the need to get away, have new experiences, and meet new people - even taking short day trips can be fun and renewing.

I find expat fatigue ( a good term, by the way!) has a way of creeping in to my life when my expectations get in the way. It's tiring, especially when having made the move solo, and living on one's own. But that too, can be part of the adventure. Perspective plays such an important role.

So, to those of you who have sparkles in your eyes - I say keep them. Although the honeymoon period may where off in time, like it often does in our most intimate relationships, take it a day at a time, and enjoy the pleasantries in your day to day experience. And, if in time, you feel the need to move on, trust your intuition and follow where it's leading you: Someplace new, "back home" - whoever that may be, or exploring the regions within. There's no right answer for everyone.

With that said, I so appreciate everyone on this forum, particularly you, Sergios, and all the help you provide to all of us newbies.

Wishing you all much joy and peace.

TheresaIT
  6/12/2018 08:53 EST

Moving someplace new is much like dating - it takes awhile to determine if you want a long-term relationship.

rsetzer99
  6/12/2018 08:57 EST

I really can't fault Italy for making us go through the hoops. Its because there are 50 difference licenses in the US, and Italy likely said, the heck with that. We're not making 50 separate agreements, you can't just go through the process.

Sergios
  6/12/2018 09:42 EST

That's not really the point of the post. But to respond, Austria has agreements with 50 different states, so does Belgium , Portugal and Croatia. All those countries are smaller and have fewer resources than does Italy. There really is no excuse. Even France and Germany have agreements with most states. Those are larger countries than Italy. It's legislative incompetence not difficulty.

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guestuser
  6/12/2018 10:44 EST

Except, rsetzer99, here are all the countries Italy does have reciprocity with, many of which are not part of the E.U., so one would think they could manage it for Americans, Canadians, Australians . . .

Albania
Lussemburgo
Algeria
Macedonia
Argentina
Malta
Austria
Marocco
Belgio
Moldova
Bulgaria
Norvegia
Cipro
Croazia
Polonia
Danimarca
Portogallo
El Salvador
Principato di Monaco
Ecuador
Repubblica Ceca
Estonia
Repubblica di Corea (Corea del Sud)
Filippine
Repubblica Slovacca
Finlandia
Romania
Francia
San Marino
Serbia
Germania
Slovenia
Giappone
Spagna
Gran Bretagna
Sri Lanka
Grecia
Svezia
Irlanda
Svizzera
Islanda
Taiwan
Israele
Lettonia
Tunisia
Libano
Turchia
Liechtenstein
Ungheria
Lituania
Uruguay
Ucraina

velvet
  6/12/2018 11:57 EST

Sergios. As always you have written a wonderful post and it is not specific to Italy. Your advice is for anyone considering moving anywhere in the world. Have you found the negatives character building?
Tolerance was not one of my strong points until I started working for the government. There I learnt that you could work on a project for years and it wouldn’t go anywhere. I also learnt a lot about getting things through the approval process so I am hoping that this has put me in good stead for dealing with the bureaucracy of France next year.

Sergios
  6/12/2018 12:20 EST

Velvet, character building? I'm not so sure. When I came to Italy I expected certain things just because of my background. I was expecting red tape, slow lines, bad driving, and I dealt with it. After all I was new to this world, although I speak Italian, I felt more like a guest than a participant. With time I have become more integrated in this society and like the other members of the society, I've grown cynical and a bit butter. There is no excuse that a visit to the post office should take over an hour. There is no excuse for the terrible driving skills of most Italians. especially elderly people in their Fiat 600s. I think my character development has not been buil up. Just a bit dented. .
Of course France has its own problems that you will have to deal with. That's true of anywhere you go. But when it comes down to the whole reason for what we are doing, the good and the bad are part of the experience and all of it is worth experiencing. My plans on moving had to be put on hold because we decided to explore the Italian medical care system by having my wife fracture here femur in October. Now that she recovering the difficult operation she had in November we are once again looking to find a new place. But that is going to have to wait for the summer to end and prices to drop on rental apartments.

rsetzer99
  6/12/2018 15:42 EST

Except probably every one of those has a national license. The Americans are like fifty squabbling little nations

roma2016
  6/12/2018 15:54 EST

That was a very insightful and wise post Sergios. Thank you.

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TheresaIT
  6/12/2018 17:10 EST

Wishing your wife all the best, Sergios, and a full and complete recovery.

apiegrapie
  6/12/2018 20:42 EST

Thank you for this post. I'm just starting this process and hope to be in Italy by early October 2018. I'm in my 30s and moving alone from California, US. I'm so excited and not scared at all because I've wanted to move to Italy for years and I'm finally taking the lap. Having said that I am concerned/ nervous about finding a job and getting my long term visa before moving. I'm really enjoying all the posts but this one in particular was interesting because I've also wondered about the "honeymoon phase" ending after I move. Thank you and keep the advice coming.

maluza86
  6/13/2018 02:16 EST

Apiegrapie,

I think you just need to take it all in stride. The main thing to realize is it is not the US. People do not think the same nor act the same or value the same things Americans might. That's not bad, or good, it's just different. For instance...we as Americans probably wouldn't think cooking, cleaning, doing laundry for your 40 yr old son is normal....but it in Italy it's extremely common. We look at and say "What the heck!!" The Italian mom looks at it and says, he's my son, my pride and joy, why wouldn't i take care of him?" Bad, good....just different, there are many more examples you'll come across and Italians will complain and moan, but do nothing to change the system. You just have to learn to deal with it as you are in their country, never forget that...and you've asked to live there!

One question for you since you mention a long term visa. Are you moving as an American with an elective residency visa or trying to regain Italian citizenship. As an American on an elective residency visa you cannot work in Italy. In order to work legally in Italy you need an Italian company to hire you and sponsor you and they would provide you with a work visa.

apiegrapie
  6/13/2018 19:36 EST

Thank you for the reply maluza86! I'm excited to get out of southern California, where I've lived my entire life but never felt "at home" or like I for in. This lifestyle is not for me. I'm actively looking for a job so I can get a work visa. Fingers crossed!

Francesca122
  6/13/2018 21:34 EST

Excellent article and some real truth. We are headed to Sicily this Sept. if all the visas come thru. We are two artists with 4 cats, yep!

When we were visiting I kept telling myself how will this feel every day once the "glow of newness" wears off. But we both have our art and hope to meet other artists to create a community, which I feel is one of the most important things you need to do, that and learning Italian. Reading other blogs SOME folks seem to think their lives can carry on in the usual way and don't step thru the frustration and fear of trying something new. These are just my personal thoughts and wish all who adventure out the best of excitement and happiness filled with great new friends.

rsetzer99
  6/14/2018 05:34 EST

A friend once gave me an observation that I thought quite good. He said that he would never be "italian", but would always be an American living in italy. And if you make act like you want to live here, as opposed to just being a visitor, you will likely get treated like someone who belongs. We know many here who don't shop local at all and make little effort to learn italian. It does not go unnoticed

Sergios
  6/14/2018 07:17 EST

You are 100% correct rsetzer99, but what you say has nothing to do with this thread. Its not about fitting in, being "italian". I WAS a New Yorker, having lived there most of my life, when I left for Italy. It was not that I did not not fit in. I left because I was ready for a new life, new experiences. Similarly I do fit in in Palermo. I am fluent in Italian. I have relatives nearby. I have friends. I did not come to Italy to slowly fade away and die. I still want the new and undiscovered. New experiences, new tastes, new sights. And then there are the disappointments in the new home. Little things that make life a bit better. Take coffee. I like coffee. Who would have thought that I would be disappointed with the coffee in Italy? I grind my own and prefer particular styles of coffee but not just one style. Coffee here is either sold by cafes that sell their own brand, usually just one. Or supermarkets that have a bigger variety. All the coffee available, with very few and rare exceptions, are robusta arabica blends. They are fine for espresso but not so good for other methods. To get high quality beans you are out of luck. You have a choice of one or two mediocre blends and hundreds of different pod coffees. And then there is cheese. You can have any kind you want as long as its Sicilian. Sicilian wines are generally good but not nearly as good as what is available in other parts of Italy or France or the USA. But if you want wine in Sicily, its Sicilian wine you get. Single malt Scotch? Three or four brands and none older than 8 years. Most less than 2. Fish? Great fish as long as its the handful of types that are fished locally and Norwegian salmon. Other kinds? Scallops? Haddock? Sole? out of luck. Vegetables? Again what is available is fantastic but very limited in selection. Many of the greens that are available elsewhere are not known here. And I could go on and on. There are many many things that add to the expat fatigue. Ferrel cats and abandoned dogs are too common and the idea of it drives me crazy. Trash and litter are everywhere but the Italians don't even seem to notice. The country is one of the most spectacularly beautiful places on earth, as long as you overlook the plastic and papers and dog sh.t that is everywhere.

rsetzer99
  6/14/2018 08:15 EST

That just seems to be the reality of country life. Large areas of the US are also devoid for much variety. If you are in or close to a large urban area, choice is endless, if you are in the corn belt, not so much.

There are those who just are here to sit in their little manor and wait it out, but it takes little effort to seek out artisans even in rural Abruzzo. Trip to a farm last weekend where they are looking to bring back the ancient breeds of goat, sheep and pig. Nice craft brewers down by the coast and the large urban centers of Rome and Milan on a whim really.

The cases of expat fatigue I have seen tend to be more where people miss being able to get things that were there go to comfort items before they moved to Italy. The adventure seekers spend their time with groups that fill that need for them. Alpine clubs, biking clubs, cooking, ceramics, musicians galore looking to blend to old with the new. So, on the whole, I think my post was appropriate to the topic at hand. You get what you put in. If someone is just a flat out experience junkie, then perhaps this not the right place. None of us can truthfully say that we were quite surprised that Italy is weighted heavily towards tradition.

francinecasalinolaura
  6/14/2018 12:58 EST

Francesca, where in Sicily will you be living?

francinecasalinolaura
  6/14/2018 12:58 EST

Francesca, where in Sicily will you be living?

Sergios
  6/14/2018 13:20 EST

Who are you asking?

HenryGiovanni
  6/14/2018 21:09 EST

Hi Sergios and all,
I'm writing from CA, here to see my grandson's first birthday and to see both of my children. And, just so it's not a vacation, I've been doing all those little things that got bypassed during our move but need attention. I've been watching the post with some interest, and finally have the time to write something. So, of course, I will!

First, though, many thanks to Sergios for his tireless thoughts on all matters. And for taking care of the stray cats, a matter close to my heart and for which I hope you have earned many "bonus points" in the place that counts them.

My thanks go also to those who may not agree with Sergios, for the same reasons (excepting those little kitties).

I'm with Sergios on the coffee: I like my American coffee, and an Italian espresso with an extra glass of hot water ain't cutting it. I bought a small coffee maker here and a small converter just so I can make a big mug of "dirty water", as my wife calls it. Sometimes I just want to drink coffee all day long. I can't speak to the brands, but have tried many of them from the "Little Italy" stores in my town over the years, and, besides, ain't that particular to begin with (except that "instant coffee" ain't goin' in my cup unless as a last resort (like at mom's house when she still lived).

On bureaucracies, I find that while neither are fast, at least the Italians truly want to help me resolve my problem, whatever it is, and, it seems to me, feel great discontent when they cannot personally resolve the issue. The US bureaucrats could take lessons from the Italians. So I don't mind the time here because it is at least a "not unpleasant" experience, as it so often is in the US.

On wine and food: the Chinese seem to have taken over all the cafe's and restaurants; hard to get "Italian" food that isn't some sort of "fusion" mix. I don't know enough about the Italian meat cuts to give an opinion, so I'll reserve it for later. But I do love the Cinghiali sauce that comes into season just about now, over pasta of any sort.

Same with a simple spritz: where's the damn olive? (at the Chinese places). The wine I buy here is local, from the surrounding Colli Euganea, comes in kegs, and is bought by the large bottle, payable at the tap, by litre, at the rate of EU 2 per, better on larger bottles. The wine is new, lacks all those preservatives that have so far kept me alive in America, and one can drink multiple glasses before gravity succeeds. Surprisingly, the morning overhangs are mostly non-existent (some local wines still have that impact, regardless of intake; one learns to avoid those brands).

But those are the little points. Let's get to the main point: fatigue. I'm here in CA and am already fatigued. I'm also so very grateful that I left CA, and, having returned so quickly, have no regrets at all. Some background: I was born in MD, but never lived there. At 6 mos, I was in CA (1955), and have lived here for more-or-less 50 years, on and off. Five years on the east coast, five years in Greece, some odd years here or there, and the rest in CA. MD was always my "home", but never felt like it, despite the natural beauty of the place (fearfully green in Spring!). I spent time in VA: nice, but not "home". I spent more time in CA than most folks who claim CA as their "home", but (with the exception of one year when I was in love with a heartbreaker), it never felt like my "home".

Skip to 2001: I'm on vacation to Italy with my son; wife and daughter had preceded us by a week or so. We land at Marco Polo in Venezia and take a shuttle, which, finally, drops us off at a corner in Padova. I have no idea where the hell I'm supposed to go or what to do, so I ask the driver where I'm going. He points to a gate, where I recognize a name and push a button, thereby gaining entrance. But, to back up just a few minutes, when the driver let us off, I had the distinct feeling that I was "home", never having visited Padova beforehand, to my own knowledge. Maybe it was my heart telling me I was back in the Med (well, the Adriatico, at least). I don't know and can't answer, but it felt like "home" to me, on that particular day. I never felt that way before, no matter how many places I lived (lots of them).

Skip to now: my stress has decreased markedly from not having to drive everywhere at 80+ mph on freeways loaded with idiots who really don't know how to drive (to use political correctness against those who assert it, insert "Immigrants of Color" here). Nobody is willing to say that the traffic laws of Somalia aren't valid here in Sanctuary-State CA. If I'm fatigued, it is by returning, not by leaving.

Went down to Tijuana twice to visit our long-term dentist, where the family has no compunction about entering the room and discussing family matters while I'm being done over. For some reason, that doesn't even bother me. In fact, I find it rather pleasant, except for the extended phone calls. Just how things are done down there. And the price more then justifies the interference. However, my brand new filling just broke yesterday. Next stop: an Italian dentist. I don't have the time to go down to TJ again.

Philosophically, I can justify anything, to myself. Ain't that hard. But, one cannot truly fool oneself; one can decide to look away or to see things as they are. Many look away. I choose to view each day like this: "Life could be worse, but it's not". I believe this allows me the room to take each day as it comes, as a gift, to be enjoyed if possible. Because life can always be worse.

Some say "life is what one makes of it". OK. Why not make the best of it, then? Anyone remotely conversant in American politics can find no end of negativity. But why bother?

Then again, I tried to make the most of it in CA, and finally left because I realized that, no matter my efforts, my death would precede any real change. Time to leave, so I left. So that particular philosophy is not always successful, or even right. It might work sometimes, but not always.

Sure, I miss some things American (my coffee, really!), but that is no reason to keep betting on a losing horse at the races. I can, and will, adapt my coffee preferences (he says, while bringing his American-coffee-maker with him!).

Some will ding me for this, but I believe in God because I can no longer find any excuse to not believe. When starting law school at 40 with a full-time job, a wife, and two kids, I wondered how many fine artists actually got into law school. I was headed to an admissions interview (it failed) and saw a piece of paper on the otherwise pristine walkway. Picking it up, I discovered it to be a list of admissions by prior degree, and there was one, count it, one, admission, out of 186, that was a fine arts degree. When one believes, then small miracles suddenly become apparent. This was my question, answered, at the moment of asking. After many other such instances, I can no longer credit "coincidence" with anything.

Don't know how this got so long (lawyer-speak). My only advice is to always, always, each and every morning, remind yourself that "Life could be worse, but it isn't". What one chooses to do after that is up to the individual, but that one sentence will get you a far way into each day.

Full disclosure: I'm not an expert on anything at all.

Cheers, John.

Sergios
  6/15/2018 03:43 EST

I hope, John, that you could extricate yourself from that Hell Hole California, as soon as possible. Let me clarify. But first, consider a French Press. But you will need your own grinder because the espresso grind will not work. Much too fine. I love espresso. In the afternoon when I need a quick boost. But in the morning I like to savor a mug [or three] of good coffee while I get the latest trump updates from Rachael. OK to the meat of it. Incidentally I have, in the fridge, a 3 inch aged rib steak from the Prussian region of Poland getting ready to be grilled. These steer are raised on grass that is infected with aromatic herbs and is not available in the States. OK, let me rephrase, lets get to the point. I don’t hate being in Sicily. For ten months a year I love the weather. The people I’ve met are wonderful. The produce here is incredible although a bit limited. The oranges alone are a good reason to be here. Not to mention the pistachios. But…..As a former fine arts student who became a geologist for totally practical reasons, I am no longer employed [by me] and am free to do what I really want to do and that is to go back to art. Well photography. There are those who make a life’s work one particular subject matter. A bowl of fruit or a particular model or whatever they decide. Here in Mondello, during the cooler months, there are a few dozen or so wooden boats painted in mostly traditional blue and white patterns which are quite characteristic of the area and have been the subject of several hundred of my photos. I would rather eat one than take another picture of these boats. And that is the point. I am ready for something new. A new subject. A new taste, a new smell, a new climate, new people, and so on. Thats just me. But i am not the only one like that and that is why I started this thread. At the start of the process most people do not consider their future change in feelings since their current emotions about making the big move are so strong that they overwhelm the little sparks of logic that remain deeply buried. But when you’re standing online for an hour for a single stamp and the woman at the counter is complaining about everything that has nothing to do with why she is there, then those little sparks get stronger and start to surface. Yes, life is really good here. Yes its possible to do as the locals and ignore the ugly the dirty the smelly. Yes its possible to ignore or accept the inefficient and even the corrupt. But when the wanderlust rears it head, these little overlooked things became a chorus urging you to move on. And in my case, I spent 5 months traveling western Europe a couple years ago and I found that I really liked the places I went to. Two weeks in Toulon, two weeks in Vernet les Bains, two weeks in Brittany, a month in Dieppe Normandy, two weeks in Amsterdam, two weeks in Paris and many other places for a week or less. On that trip I was able to compare Palermo to these places: what is available to buy, to eat to drink to see. Palermo does not lose to any of these places except in the sense of the familiar. Its a place that I know very well and its time to get to know other places, as well. I hit 67 a few days ago. At one time that age was in the realm of archeology but now, that its me, its not so old. Old yes, but not so old. I’m not ready to to switch off quite yet.

HenryGiovanni
  6/15/2018 20:15 EST

Hi Sergios,
We have many, many things in common, come to find out. I had a prior degree in sculpture/printmaking, then went to law school at 40. That decision was to choose the hardest thing I could think of and then do it. Also, I had kids who I didn't wish to re-live my own past of poverty in adolescence at high school. So I did it (post-school, post-bar, law) for 18 years and then quit. I am now 63. Should one care to look at my employment background, one would find liquor stores, aircraft carriers and nuclear subs, trade-show exhibits, museum exhibits, model-making (Chrysler, Solar Turbines, and many others), custom architectural signage (which was really pretty much cutting-edge at the time), and, finally, law. One could insert into that my writing (2 books on amazon, currently), woodworking design and production, and many other things. So I know about getting tired of something.

As for extricating myself from CA, I'm here to do just that. I am done with CA; done like dinner. I have no regrets leaving, except that the kids won't follow. Alas. One leads one's own life, not the life of others. I have only to remove my antique BSA motorcycle from this jurisdiction and it's finished. My law license remains, but if they want that I'll give it to them, freely. It's of little use in Italy, and no use here while I'm in Italy. The big thing to note here is that my chase for the dollar is over. That is not living, merely servitude.

On that coffee business, I am not partial to French-grind, and have always (well, not "always", but at least for many, many years) used La Llave (Spanish) espresso coffee in my US maker and got (to me, and that's who really matters with coffee!) good results. That brand is not available in Italy, but I'll find a Lavazza or something else that will do. My standards are not so formidable that they can't be modified. One "Adapts, Improvises, Overcomes". (perhaps the USMC motto, but maybe changed? I've heard it two ways, but this way makes sense to me.).

Most folks are absolutely resistant to change. I remember an old card game called "Mille Bournes", where one would try to get to 1000 kms (mille) of roadmarkers (bournes? not sure). The opponent would try to stop you while at the same time progressing his own mileage. Remember, this is a card game.

Whenever I tried to make changes in my own life, I was always reminded of Mille Bournes, where the opponent would give you a "flat tire" card, or an "engine failure" card, or an "accident" card, or whatever, in order to slow you down (or divert you from your chosen goal). One then had to get the proper card to over-ride whatever calamity had been bestowed upon oneself by the opponent.

Enter LIFE. One wants to change, but LIFE starts throwing these "cards" at you (ie- "broken femur" card comes to mind here, that requires time to heal, plus time to change your mind!!) When I started law school, I made a rule for myself: anything that took two or more hours of my time wasn't going to happen until I graduated, family emergencies exempted, of course. But there were few of those. My rule was because I was so very tired all the time (full-time job, wife, two kids, school schedules, etc) that I could not partake in "out-world" events and still graduate. Remember, my "pre-law" degree was sculpture. I enforced that rule to the continued annoyance of others (family emergencies excluded), and many found fault with it, but I graduated in the top-third and with regular merit scholarships and dean's list stuff, none of which was important in the working world of law. Insert here: Damn the Torpedoes, Full Speed Ahead! (my first motto; the USMC motto only comes into play after failure of the first motto, which, to put it bluntly, is always. The best war plan only lasts until the first shot is fired. So be it. After I passed the bar, we sold the "Red Prison Couch" where I had spent so many hours studying.

Back to Mille Bournes: I found that whenever I tried to change my life, those around me (surprisingly! Or maybe not so surprisingly) had no interest in my betterment, and would actively try to hinder my own personal interests. Then, later, they would say: "you never said a thing!", which was a complete lie. I always said want I intended to do, but nobody ever believed in that. And here's the important part: "except myself!".

So, you want to change? Do it. Let folks know, but don't listen to them or you will find yourself exactly where they would like for you to be, which is in an un-changing relationship with them. Remember that when you change your own life, you also remind others that they "could" change their own lives, but haven't. Powerful stuff, that. They want you to remain the same because they have remained the same, and will continue to do so, forever. Is this your real goal? I already know it's not mine, and never was. Change is my friend, and we are old friends. Not, I might add, by casual acquaintance, but by the constant need for me to change my own life in order to keep my head above water. Change and I are not "friends" by choice, only by necessity. Nonetheless, Change and I have become friends.

Life is change. Change is the mines ("torpedoes") faced by Adm. David Farragut in the Battle of Mobile Bay during our own Civil War. Damn those Torpedoes! Adapt, Improvise, Overcome. You are in charge of your own life, and no other's, nor are others in charge of your life. Do what you must, according to your own set of determinative values. You will hear no barking from me.

I have always considered "Change" to be like a steam-roller: it comes, and one either adapts to it or gets the hell out of the way (and be by-passed!). The only constant is change, so Adapt, Improvise, Overcome. My life now is so different from the life I grew up with; this is Change.

And, by the way, none of my friends actually thought I would move to Italy, where I now reside and where I own a condo that cost far less than anything available on the San Diego market (excepting, maybe, in the "combat zone", where I have no desire to live). I can't help but believe that they each wish they could have done the same with their own lives. Don't let your life become 'their lives".

Life could be worse, but it's not.
Coffee (at my own house) in Italy is expected to improve on my return, Sunday, June 17!

I hope this helps in return, as you have helped me over this last year.
My personal best wishes are included.
Cheers, John.

HenryGiovanni
  6/15/2018 20:33 EST

Hi Sergios, again,
I might add that my brother had a govt job forever, He was stable. I was anything except "stable", changing jobs like hats (so to speak). I admired his stability. Turns out, he admired my ability to adapt to circumstances. Don't know which it the better course, but I'm going with "change".

Hope this helps.
Cheers, John.

Sergios
  6/16/2018 02:25 EST

Thank you for the encouraging words, John. You put into words what I thought/think and it is clarifying to see/hear those concepts expressed by another. When I was an art student, with no serious intent to get a degree, I moved to Albany where my then girlfriend was in college. Needing a job I applied for a drafting job at GE. Since I knew how to draw I was picked over several actual draftsmen (I never had worked as one) and was put in the engine room design group of the Trident Submarine. A position that I was totally unqualified for. None have sunk as far as I know....
You make some good points about family and friends. I have both. Here in Sicily i have family and friends too. My wife and I are included in their events and we spend time together occasionally, including holidays, and they would do for me anything i ask, which I try not to ask. However my cousin's circle of friends and family was incredibly helpful for me to get what i needed from the commune. BUT.....he and his family and the rest of my family and friends have their own lives. We are satellites to their lives and not really integral to their existences as they are not to ours. Same with our two boys who are both married and both successful, they both have their lives which are completely apart from ours. We are both welcome in their world, we are both happy to share their world for limited periods of time, but ultimately its their world not ours. Our being with friends and family a few times a year is not enough to keep us fixed in one place. We could always get on a plane if we have to. (The possibility of grandchildren in the future may change everything). So getting back to the Expat Fatigue, the above series of conversations really have little to do with expat fatigue other than to remove the "excuses" to remain in one place. Others reading these posts may consider us daft for purposely upending stability in exchange for short term relief of boredom. They are probably right. However our lives are also short term and as time passes the constraints to "exploring the new" become tighter and overbearing. Grandkids for example. Thank you again John.

mrosephoto
  6/16/2018 14:26 EST

We are looking in Ortega We are hoping to get there b mid sept. Where are you?

Sergios
  6/16/2018 15:12 EST

Not sure who you are asking. I'm in Palermo.

thefountain
  6/17/2018 22:20 EST

John,
I always appreciate you sharing your experiences and your positive attitude.

It seems like itay is la dolce vita.

Safe trip back to Italy.

nick0126
  6/18/2018 04:33 EST

sounds about right.

oscarwildedog
  6/18/2018 06:40 EST

I couldn't agree more with "expat fatigue." Most of the posts, blogs, Instagrams, et al, I read are either from young people who have relatively little (adult) life experiences or, as the previous writer intimates, newbies who are "full of wonder" at everything that seems new and refreshing from their native country. Now, I've lived in 30 countries and visited over 70 more and I would suppose I'm one of the more jaded expats out there. I mean, I just love Italy primarily, but I won't go back to try to get a Permesso again. I'm over that s***. And it is s***. Because it doesn't have to be that way. I lived in Italy off and on long enough to know that it's all a game, all a ruse, and doesn't have to be that way. We're in the effing 21st century for crissakes. Why, even post office employees, immigration employees and other bureaucrats i know personally and can speak fluent Italian with tell me it's all part of a big game. It's almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy - the Italian govt expects expats to complain, so why change THAT?

I learned long ago that there is just too much in this world to see and I want to keep moving. If you're a Europhile, like me, you live for the trains and boats which will take you anywhere. For a continent that's older than dirt, the attitude on train and boat travel is out of this world. Love it.

I mean, I've owned land and a villa in Italy. I got it for a song. It's great. But sooner or later, Italy becomes your home and all the stuff you left your native home to find you now have here...in Italy. So you keep moving.

I've actually lived in 15 countries in Europe, and I feel the same about all of them. That said, it doesn't mean I'd never go back to any of them - of course I would. But when I want to leave for Tallinn, I want to leave. Shut the rental door in Matera and just go.

The other 15 countries I've lived in comprise the other 5 continents outside of North America. Except for Japan and South Korea, they are not very "Westernized." Meaning more soul-crushing waits for bureaucracy to get with the program. I love Chang Mai in Thailand, but I won't live there again. I'm in my mid-60's and waiting in line is not for me.

Sorry for the long post, but one more point: people talk about the lines and the "paperwork," but the real problem is finding out the information you need in the first place. Thank unicorn for the internet. When I first started my expat journey, I can't tell you how many hours it took me to discover what I HAD to know to even get in the right lines at the right times to start with. Fits and starts, hair-pulling, time-wasting mistakes were the norm. Y'all have it easy today compared to the pre-internet world.

thefountain
  6/18/2018 07:51 EST

I agree with you. Life is short term. Everyone thinks I am crazy that I want to move to Italy, especially because of the tax rules and the new government. But when my family is on Italy and not America why in the world would I want to live without my family. I miss them and they miss me. Being a cancer survivor I really know how special life is. Life is meant to be lived and enjoyed and shared with people you love. Yes sometimes people need to move away from family for a variety of reasons but for me I need to be in Italy. And yes there will be challenges but I need to live my life.
I read what John writes and am so encouraged by his positivity.
I also appreciate what you share.
Thank you.

HenryGiovanni
  6/18/2018 19:48 EST

Hi Sergios,
BTW, in my hurry in San Diego, I completely overlooked your birthday, so . . . Happy Birthday! My own was a few months back, ten years to the day that Mussolini involuntarily departed this world. I believe that one should always remember history (not as related to political content, but only as related to "history"). Things happen, and, try as one might, one cannot re-write the past.

And on that note, when, in 2008, the market took a slip, and then a great slide two days later (Sept), followed by much financial fear and the uncertain outcome of a coming election, there was little work for a transactional lawyer involved in business creation and contracts and such. When folks are broke, they don't call their lawyer.

So every day I went in to work for 1-1/2 hrs. I was usually done checking the snail mail, e-mail, and phone-mail in 15 minutes, and then wasted another 1-1/4 hrs just hanging around, waiting to see if anything else came up. Nothing ever did. All avenues of communication were dead silent in those days.

By 10.00 AM every day I was in my backyard, having decided to rebuild my antique motorcycle. My wife once wanted me to sell it, in time of need, but I told her that I needed to re-paint it prior to any possible sale, and promptly took it apart. It stayed apart for long enough for me to keep it (about 12 years, but I had young children and was in law school anyway, and didn't have any time for it back then).

So there I was, working on the bike every day, painting, doing the mechanics, and everything, because there was no one else who knew more about it than I (except, as it turned out, for my next-door neighbor, who was a motorcycle expert, and who, believe it or not, was one of the original co-founders of ComiCon in San Diego. He'd had a similar bike, though it was the smaller cc version. And he got my son into ComiCon every year for many years, for free, and me a time or two, plus my daughter when she finally got interested. Strange world we live in.). I didn't ask him for help then, though I did later. And to his credit, he always came over and helped me out. He is probably one of the nicest persons I've ever met, and has little respect for money, by the way. I'll add that he was pushed out of ComiCon before it became the commercial success it now is, but that is not an important fact. I suspect that something of his way of thinking finally rubbed off on me, hastened, probably, by the antics of CA "leadership" and my own disillusion with same.

So there I was, putting this old bike back together and glad that I took it apart to begin with. With complete disregard for the calendar, I worked each day from 10:00 AM until "quitting time" (sunset?), and it gradually came together. I took pics of the entire process, and they are wonderful to review, occasionally.

I finally got to where it was time to kick it over on Nov 22, JFK's assassination date. It worked. The bike finally "ticked-over" on the 22nd kick, after half-starting on the 6th kick and a few others. I took a video of the event.

I then proceeded with the "shake-down cruise" portion of the business, This is US Navy terminology for going out to sea trials after an overhaul, and seeing what "shook-down" (ie- came loose), and then tightening things up. Eventually, all things are tight and the ship is ready-for-action, so to speak.

This took some time, but was eventually finished on March 15, the "Ides of March", or, Julius Ceasar's assassination date!! This is one reason I like to know my place in history.

I came to refer to this bike as the "Assassination Bike", hoping I wasn't next. With the old-style girder front end and rigid rear, there was no guarantee of that!

All of this is a lead-in to one's own personal history, whatever that may be.

One may choose this way, or, maybe, that way, but any such decisions should be based on one's own personal history, and after some evaluation. At least, one (ie- me, for instance) hopes it is so. Alas, it is not always the case. However, only the individual suffers the consequences (and maybe, by extension, the family, and by further extension, maybe some folks one collides with on that journey, but the rest of us remain unaffected). I always (try to) wish the best for others, because to do otherwise is to be mean, in the new sense of the word and not in the old sense of the word ("Mean Mr. Mustard" comes to mind, where the word meant "cheap"). Best wishes, whatever you choose to do. I'm sure you will consider all possibilities beforehand, because you are already doing that, as gained from your posts.

So, another story: back when I was still "thinking" about law school, I had just about decided to forego law in exchange for. . . wait for it! . . . a degree in geology! An impromptu home invasion with intent to inflict harm, successfully stopped,, and the resultant police incompetence, decided for me the fact that I would never, ever, again, ever, be subjected to and reliant upon, police interpretation of the law. They are police, not lawyers, but were acting as curb-side lawyers (after I became an attorney I ran into many such police-lawyers, who were, in effect, practicing law without a license). At that moment, I chose law over geology, which has always been close to my heart; not "close" like my cats, but still, close. I even shipped some of my "rock collection" to Italy, despite the weight factor (don't even bring up the "stupidity factor" of shipping rocks!).

So, some are asking, when does this guy ever get to the "expat fatigue" part of the question?

Here it is, come only by roundabout, and (yet) another story.

Some ten years back I purchased an old Italian accordion, with full intent to learn how to play it. It's red, it's old, and it has just that "look" about old things that I like, even in motorcycles. I once played piano, so it can't possibly be that hard, right? My son gave me a "beginner's book", complete with CD for audio effects. It nonetheless sat by the side, un-noticed and un-loved. Well, maybe not, because I had it re-worked. And I always thought about it. Still, it's been a few years since I actually did anything with it. I will say that I started, but this move to Italia got somewhat in the way of my progress, as it did with everything else in my life. Still and all, it got bypassed.

It is my opinion, and nothing more than that, that one's growth comes not from the places one has been (though, truly, that is a huge part of it), but mostly from the internal growth. From that growth that happens to one's individual soul, in contrast to the external growth of the individual's experience. And here, one could argue that I am wrong, that experience affects the soul, and vice-versa. Perhaps that is so, but I do not intend to allow such an argument to stand in the way of my proposition that inner growth is more important than external experiences. I remind all readers that this is "my opinion", and not "settled science".

So here I am, in a "new" country, one that I have visited many, many, times over the last 50 years or so, but in which I have never "lived", or, perhaps better, "resided".

I am certain, just as I am certain that the gloss of a "new" life in Italy will eventually turn into the "old" experience of same, that I can only affect such outcome by changing the life I lead.

Whereas my life continues, apace, the experiences will change. It does not matter the location (except, perhaps, CA!!), but what one does in that location. I believe there are folks who live in the same town all their lives, but nonetheless, can change and love where and how they live. I admit it's not me, but neither is that my background. I've lived too many places for that rule to apply. So, for me, the only chance, having changed my location, is to change my life. That is my point.

As I've stated many times, one can change or one can choose to remain the same. My prior analogy to Change being a steamroller was incorrect in its conclusion as to results: one gets out of the way and is bypassed by Change, or gets "flattened" (so to speak!) by change and remains where one is, or, and this is important, runs as fast as one can in order to "stay ahead of Change". I choose to try to stay ahead of Change, and Damn Those Torpedoes anyway! What is life if not chance? The opportunity that knocks is not always heard, and less heeded. Still, it is knocking. Best to learn to recognize the sound of that knock and then do something, anything, to make the Change that is insistently telling you will be in your face anyway, regardless of want.

There it is. Mille Bournes is LIFE! (This is a fun card game, by the way; look it up. It must be at least 50 years old; I played it as a "kid", but it's still a fun game. A gambling man could make something of it, I suppose, but I prefer "penny-ante, quarter-max bet", just to keep it interesting, much like Tombola on New Year's Eve here in Italia.) Could be lots of fun with some friends and some local Colli Euganea bulk-red, senza preservatives!.

So there it is. For those who lack the option to get up and go, learn to do that inside, not outside. For those who can get up and go, more power, but sometimes one runs to the thing one wants to escape. I leave it up to the individual to choose which it is, and make no judgments either way. On that note, I repeat that all of this is my opinion, and, therefore, to be regarded or disregarded at will.

One final note: I just "survived" a 28-hr ordeal, to put it bluntly, to make a 14-hr trip. I know this because I've flown direct SD-Marco Polo (SAN-VCE for those who use official destinations) in the past in just over 14 hrs. I remember when flying used to be fun, back in the days when an airplane was little more than a transitional flying bar between different periods in one's life. It was exciting to be in an airport, watching the change of life before one's own eyes and experiencing same in one's own life. No more. The powers-that-be have turned it all into drudgery, and I could gain no excitement in anticipation of the torture that awaited my return flight to Italia, for torture it was. My back hurt, my butt was numb, and everything else was in physical pain. My body doesn't know where it's been, how it's gotten there, or what it's doing, only to make the reverse trip two weeks later under similar circumstances. Alas.

I flew Jet Blue for the first time out of SD, to JFK. I will say that the Jet Blue seats were a welcome remembrance of the old days, when one had seats wider than one's body, and room to cross one's legs in front. That was an eye-opener for me, to be reminded that someone out there listens to, and, maybe, even cares about, such things as personal comfort for the ultimate customer (ie-me). Points given to Jet Blue for so thinking, and then doing.

Special thanks to Sergios and to thefountain for your kind words, and to those others who may get some encouragement, or even only some enjoyment, from my posts. It is my hope that I may, repeat, may, be able to help someone, somewhere, sometime, with something I've said. And I do so enjoy writing and telling stories that may (or may not) be relevant. So I feel obliged to warn you that any encouragement will likely lead to more posts in the future! Something like feeding the animals at the zoo. My advice to those who think my posts are too long; avoid mine, and read shorter posts.

Cheers to all, John.

GeoffK
  6/18/2018 20:20 EST

Keep them up John. I will follow with interest. Until I don't.

HenryGiovanni
  6/18/2018 20:26 EST

Hi Geoffk,
I will begin to prepare to start to get ready to do as you say, in hopes you will continue to follow them until you don't!
Cheers, John.

velvet
  6/21/2018 06:53 EST

Hi All
For those of you who have downsized to an apartment how have you found the experience. Has this contributed to the fatigue. The reason I am asking is we currently live in a small three bedroom house with a garden and when looking at apartments for rent they seem quite small. We think we could cope with a 70 sq m place plus a balcony. I would love to hear of your experiences.

Sergios
  6/21/2018 07:02 EST

Velvet, it depends on where you live. My wife and I came from a 5 bedroom sprawling house and moved into a 100 m, 3 bedroom house here in Italy. First we sold, gifted or disposed of just about everything we had. We rented furnished apartments so that we are not tied to "stuff" (as per George Carlin). The reason the place you are going to is important is that for most of the year life is spent outside as much as inside, given you live in a sunny place. In that case the size of the house is not as critical. Also, since you are not likely to have more kids (just an assumption on my part) you don't need room for them. Lastly, once you find a place and don't like it, you could always move. Most contracts have a six month option. If you give 6 months notice you do not have to pay a penalty.

velvet
  6/21/2018 07:19 EST

Thanks Sergios. I have taken your post to apply to living anywhere in Europe and not just Italy.
We intend to do the same as you just in France and after our recent trip to France and Spain, it made us see what we need size wise, and wonder if we are being to fussy.
The biggest issue for me was the bathroom size. Hope I’m not coming across as a princess.
You are correct in that there will be no more children or even grandchildren so I have been told. Not that it is an issue for us. But we will need a spare room for visitors.
By the way I really value your advice.

marchelive
  6/21/2018 07:28 EST

We moved from our 3k sqft home in Texas to a 100m home in Italy. Our Italian home has a 1 car garage. Our biggest problem is lack of storage. Makes me wish I had a two car garage! There just isn't enough indoor storage space. At the moment we are rebuilding a 190m home. I'm really looking forward to it's completion!

codybrandy
  6/21/2018 08:07 EST

Hello Velvet, You are right: Sergio is one of our 'Stars' and his info is invaluable. Size is a relative term...what you need and what you would like. I would take into consideration if you are outdoor people or not and if you will need indoor space for bad weather drying needs. We downsized to c. 110m with nice sized rooms, a sunroom (great for drying clothes in the winter) and a porch. There is nothing worse than drying clothes in the living room even if you don't have company. We are seriously considering a dryer...if you dry clothes inside too often you get mold...lots of mold...yuck and it's a lot of work to get rid of. We did finally buy a dehumidifier and it helps.
And, yes marchelive....storage...most houses don't have closets so you have to buy an armadio for almost every room not to mention have room possibly for outdoor equipment storage....a garage would be wonderful. You are not a princess for wanting a larger bathroom...it would be nice to have room for not only the towels, sheets and washing machine but also just room to move around in. Hint: we are taking out the bidet to give us more room...dirty? take a shower! For such a big decision as moving...renting may be your best bet and then decide what is important to you as you settle. Good Luck.

velvet
  6/21/2018 08:36 EST

I love the information provided here. We are outdoor people and I always sit outside despite the weather. It was -4 here this morning.
I hadn’t even thought about drying clothes so thanks codybrandy

Sergios
  6/21/2018 11:38 EST

Velvet, the further north and the closer to the Atlantic you live, the more days indor. I stayed in Dieppe Normandy for the month of July two years ago. A light jacket, rain gear and an umbrella are essentials. That does not mean we didn't spend time outside. In fact the cool weather was more pleasurable than July in Palermo.. I think Dante had Sicily in mind when he wrote his poem. However, the other seasons are going to be cooler and wetter unless your on the Med coast. I could see you in San Tropea.

Sergios
  6/21/2018 12:50 EST

One more thing. Many rentals in Europe do not have central heating. It does not get cold enough to freeze in southern, lowland Europe so people suffer thru the cold wearing sweaters inside. Not for me. My house has no central heating so I bought a pellet stove and installed it. Excellent €600 purchase. Keep that in mind when looking for a place.

mauradlmt
  6/23/2018 10:26 EST

Happy Belated Birthday to you Sergios and wonderful reading all the posts - I have not even moved to Italy yet and I am already gearing up for expat fatigue. My son and I are moving to Puglia at the end of July and every few days I tell him we will have some "fast days and some really slow days." When we arrive, start getting settled and start waiting in lines for things etc, he will know then what I mean by "really slow days :)" Thanks for everyone's insight and keeping this change a positive thing. I am the middle of five siblings who all live on the east coast of the US and me the lone sheep in the Pacific NW. My brother recently emailed me to ask when I was moving back East to be near everyone - I told him I am moving back East - back to the East coast of Puglia in Italy - he still has not responded to me.

maluza86
  6/23/2018 21:57 EST

Congrats on the move Maura...seems all worked out with your ER visa appointment then! Several Puglia expats on this site, where are you heading as I see you have family in Puglia? I am in San Vito Dei Normanni.

July is a good time to move lots going on in the summertime...many festivals, beaches and everyone is out and about. Tourism is also at its highest, though so areas will be a lot more crowded. Oh, yeah and don’t expect to get anything official done in August...first two weeks leading up to Ferragosto August 15 everyone is off and goes to the beach towns...then the rest of the month they are on “summer hours” so trying to get anything remotely official accomplished is next to impossible ;-)

Hope the move and transition goes well.

In bocca al lupo :-)

Sergios
  6/24/2018 01:40 EST

Thank you Mauradnt, there is a problem with the PM system. To answer your question, what is done with the translations in Italy is similar to apostle but it's not. It's a legalization of the translation before it is accepted by the commune as a legal document.

Francesca122
  6/25/2018 14:46 EST

I have to also thank you Sergios for all the information and yes happy belated Birthday! Hope you are still celebrating.

Mauradlmt, hope all goes well with your move to Italy with your son....how wonderful. We live on Vashon Island, where are you?

TheresaIT
  6/25/2018 15:10 EST

Ah! Also happy belated, Sergios! Hope you had a good one!

Sergios
  6/25/2018 16:26 EST

Thank you all for your well wishes. As Woody Allen said "You can live to be a hundred if you give up all the things that make you want to live to be a hundred."  Woody Allen (1935- )
So that's how it's done. Who wants to live to be a hundred anyway.

lifelover
  6/25/2018 16:52 EST

Happy Birthday Sergio’s!
Always full of great advice and great humour!!

janilee
  7/2/2018 17:47 EST

Just about to cross the three years in Italy line, I have to say I'm about 50/50 with you. Expat Fatigue does have triggers, and the equal and opposite cures.
The post office: Figuring out which ticket button to push for which window, then finding out you got it right, is like winning the lottery. The clerk at the window is just as likely to be discussing life stories with other employees, as well as customers. But, when it is your turn, you get the same attention others get and they do try to help. The immigration hoops can be frightening: "No! You cannot be here. You will soon be arrested for being here illegally. You must leave, now!" Those are offset by learning which Questura to visit to find helpful people who are glad you are in the country and say, "Oh, that is impossible that you were treated that way. Italy loves to welcome new, financially responsible, people who wish to be a part of our country." The food remains wonderful, but the dishes in your U.S. restaurant stomping grounds tend to be similar from one to the next, too. I found a balance by introducing the dishes of my Southern roots with the locals. Who would have thought that, with polenta as a staple, no one had thought of cornbread? One recipient was so taken with the muffins that she carefully posed one beside her plate and took several photos for friends. I gave her the recipe and I still get messages from her to tell me when she introduces cornbread to new guests. On the downside, my husband is addicted to Sabrette hot dogs and continues to suffer withdrawal. The solution to that was a cousin who came to visit and somehow managed to get a pack of 30 of them, frozen and packed in ice, on the plane. Flight attendants kept the ice fresh through the flight and they were still, mostly, frozen when they arrived. I would happily kill for a hickory pit barbecue sandwich, myself.
The driving! I have come to the conclusion that Italian drivers never lose that sense of immortality that we all had as children. They aim their cars and assume everyone else is looking out for them. Just as taxing, though, is for an Italian to suddenly see someone they know and stand on the brakes to spend a half hour chatting right where they are. Triple parking! And, I swear that they wait for curves before passing. Because of the need to speak fluent Italian to take the test, the general driving conditions, the 500 euro charge for the driving school, plus other charges that pop up in the endeavor, has caused me to forget about being licensed. Oh, and there is that thing about incredibly high insurance rates that go up if you make a claim. I have yet to hear of anyone who has made a claim that was successful. The flip side of that is I know of nowhere in the States we could rent an 1100 sq ft apartment with a lake view to die for, a village whose population seems to love you and make you feel like a rock star when you walk out the door, a neighborhood so safe that you wonder why the lobby door has a lock. All this, and you pay only 300 euros per month.
So far, I have found that there is a pro for every con. Except for one, maybe. We're still trying to figure out how it is that we bought my husband's Moto Guzzi motorcycle in the States 18 years ago. We went through a dealer and paid all the applicable taxes and import fees. We still have been unable to get a license and tag for the bike because the powers that be have determined we have to pay import fees on the Italian bike but they can't figure out how much that should be. The offset? We had to appear at the county DMV license division every year at tag renewal time. Guzzis were not on the list of vehicles and it had to be viewed and speculated on each time we needed a new sticker.
Achieving a balance starts at the beginning, I think. You can determine early on if you will be able to do/see/have things that were important to you in your old home. The basic comforts, the company you keep, the hobbies you have should always be possible for you to continue enjoying. Everything beyond that will continue to present new challenges and solutions on a daily basis. The U.S. is very isolated. Outside our new door is the entire EU. We're retired. We won't live long enough to visit every city in every country that we'd like to see, even with the EU NHS at our fingertips. I'm anything but bored. When I remember that we hardly knew anyone in our subdivision after fourteen years, that the current atmosphere pits neighbor against neighbor whether you know them, or not, that I was always wary if I found myself away from home, alone, when dark fell, or in a parking deck at any time of day, that anyone can sue anyone else for anything that crosses their mind, the rushing, the stress, etc. I am asked on a daily basis if I love this "paradiso tranquilo". Oh, I do. I am home. I believe that you will find that place one day. It might be within Italy, or it might not. If not, you must keep searching for your home.

almare2
  7/2/2018 19:20 EST

Very well put and well written, janilee. Complimenti!

Sergios
  7/3/2018 01:07 EST

Janlee, thank you for all that. It was well described and I agree 100% with what you said. Each of the gripes or the benefits are just that. They exist everywhere and I'm not trying to get away from them. My problem is that I have wanderlust. I've always had that. I've always wanted to see and experience new places. Sicily, after 3 almost four years is starting to feel confined and worn. I need to tryout a new place for a while until the cycle starts again. At some point I will be too old to do any of that so now is the time. 300 Euro for a lake view apartment? Where are you living?

Sergios
  7/3/2018 01:25 EST

One more thing about driving in Italy, at least Sicily. I've concluded that most drivers consider anything behind their personal field of view, no longer exists so there is no need to consider it. Mirrors are car decorations and are not to be used. Since there is nothing behind them that is of interest. That explains their driving between lanes, and cutting you off at round-abouts because they cut straight thru instead of following the lane lines.

rsetzer99
  7/3/2018 04:31 EST

You know you have settled in when you take visitors in your car and the shriek in fright at an oncoming car and you just shrug and say, yeah, they'll do that......on the other hand, I never see road rage. You get a ciao ciao wave instead of the finger.

Sergios
  7/3/2018 04:46 EST

I was told by my driving instructor (yes, can't believe I have to learn how to drive like these people) that if you get into a fender bender, just smile and accept the blame. Not to argue since you never know who the other person is and what they are capable of doing. That does put a damper on road rage.

guestuser
  7/3/2018 04:55 EST

Wow, Sergios, I'm not sure I'd automatically accept blame, although I'd be disinclined to get into an argument with someone. I do have to say, however, I've seen plenty of road rage here and understand why your instructor might say that.

rsetzer99
  7/3/2018 05:47 EST

From observation it appears that the appropriate response is to engage in an epic gesturing contest.

rsetzer99
  7/3/2018 05:47 EST

From observation it appears that the appropriate response is to engage in an epic gesturing contest.

janilee
  7/3/2018 10:57 EST

That sounds just about right. And, don't forget the very quiet little scooters and the extremely fast sport bikes that lane split and fly by so fast that they never show up in your rearview.

Sergios
  7/3/2018 12:16 EST

If any of you are familiar with spring black flies, the midges that fly in a cloud around your head, buzzing your ears, fling into your eyes, into your mouth, and they bite. Those are the palermo, and I'm sure most cities of the south, motor scooters. The only accidents that are seen regularly (which is very surprising in itself) are motorscooter accidents.

sedona
  7/8/2018 19:17 EST

apiegrapie,

I'm from California also and planning to move to southern Italy (as a retiree) in January.

sdztfm
  7/9/2018 12:47 EST

Janice, thank you for the thread.

What region/state of Italy are you residing?

Susanne

janilee
  7/9/2018 14:28 EST

Central Italy in the Apennines, Province of L'Aquila. About midway between Roma and Pescara.

apiegrapie
  7/9/2018 21:04 EST

@Sedona, I'm noticing that most are retiring to Italy. I believe that's an easier visa to obtain if you're financially self sufficient. I'm still actively searching for a job so that I can applyfor a long term visa and then apply for the "permission to stay" once I'm in Italy. I wish I had connections there already but I'm not giving up because I just know Italy is where I should be. Best of luck to you on your move and retirement!

TheresaIT
  7/10/2018 05:11 EST

Janilee,

What a beautiful post. Thanks so much for sharing. As a single woman, walking down my block at night in Brooklyn was always a bit creepy. In, in the small city of Trieste, I often go out at 9 or 10 p.m. to take a walk - and have had no problems whatever and except for a very quiet, isolated area that I don't feel particularly good in - but that's located far from where I am - I feel 100% safe.

I am heading back to the US for nearly two months this summer. My first time back in 15 months. It will be interesting to see how I feel and what my experience is.

And yes - that €300 apartment with a water view - sounds like heaven? I'd also love to know where you're living!

All the best,
Theresa

janilee
  7/11/2018 10:22 EST

HenryGiovanni, you don't really need a converter for the little things. Amazon.IT pretty much covers just about any appliance you need and most of them come from Germany and Austria and are of good quality. I admit we did bring a converter, but that is because I didn't want to leave my KitchenAid mixer behind and, since mine was new, I didn't want to spend the extra money they cost here. An American style coffee maker was in our first order from Amazon.IT. A lot of kitchen staples not available in my area (vanilla extract, brown sugar, baking powder), along with American junk food can be found on the My American Market site, but you pay dearly. I quickly learned to make my own brown sugar and vanilla extract. I still order baking powder. I miss pecans and hickory smoked barbecue, though. Hope you find a happy medium for the things you miss.

janilee
  7/11/2018 10:40 EST

Sergio, thank you for your kind words. My little Abruzzo village is so old that it has its own dialect. You wouldn't happen on it unless by accident. The only reason we know it exists is because my husband started doing the ancestry thing to find out where his grandparents lived before landing in NJ. Two visits later, he wanted to know if there was any possibility we could retire here. This is where I empathize with your wanderlust. I never felt like I was truly at home anywhere I lived in the States. Thirty-five years ago, we did a driving tour through Europe and covered a lot of ground in that month. There were several places that called to me. I wouldn't let myself even think of ever moving to Europe. Alabamians don't do things like that. But, I knew that there were places out there I might truly feel at home. There might be more than one but, for now, this place feels like it could be the one. So, keep looking. One day, you'll get a feeling. It won't be the view, the food, or the cost, but something in the air will give you a nostalgic feeling that makes you think that place has been waiting for you. Viaggi sicuri!

janilee
  7/11/2018 10:47 EST

TheresaIT, thank you for your kindness. I'm in the Apennines, a snug little village surrounded by a ring of mountains. Please be sure to post about your experiences and impressions on your return visit to the States. I often imagine how I would feel were I to do that. If you don't mind, PM me when you do that so I can be sure not to miss it.

TheresaIT
  7/11/2018 11:07 EST

Hi Janilee,

I so enjoy reading your posts - so kind, heartfelt and beautiful. I do my best to remember to remember to post and 'tag' you about my experience in the US. (-:

BTW, I brought a Melitta and filters with me - though have been using a stove top espresso maker. I drink the whole thing (normally two or three servings), with a quarter to a third cup of soy milk to make a mug! Where do you buy "American" coffee? If I have room in my suitcase, I may bring Trader Joe's French roast!

codybrandy
  7/11/2018 11:19 EST

Janilee, You just brought up a problem I have.....Amazon.it....I have Amazon.com and Am.uk.com but when I tried to join A.it I was asked for an Italian Visa card...they didn't seem to accept my US Visa...what do you use? And how did you get an Italian Visa? I went to my bank and they hemmed and hawed about my being American even though I'm a full time Italian resident (not citizen). They said they would look into it and call me....that was months ago. Thank you for any help.

equitraveler
  7/11/2018 11:37 EST

Hi CodyBrandy,
I think you need to change banks. We use Cassa di Risparmio di Bra. When we opened our account 10+ years ago we requested and were issued both credit and debit cards, even though we are American and only live in IT 5 1/2 months a year. The only downside to these is that they have monthly limits for charges and withdrawals. The upside is, if one of us loses a card a crook couldn't clean us out before we canceled it. Good luck.


And here's a separate reply on buying appliances from A.IT. If you buy a German appliance you may need to buy a DE:IT plug adapter, which is cheap and easily found at your local fai da te. We know this because our vacuum is German.

whidden39
  7/11/2018 12:06 EST

I have all 3 Amazons you mentioned and I use only my US credit cards. No problems. I had a credit card issued by a local Italian bank, but it was a real hassle. They wanted to hold an extraordinary amount of money beyond the full credit limit, full payment of acct balance every month (no problem there, but how is that different from a debit card?), fees, and a low low credit line. The only time there would be value is at an unattended gas station on a Sunday where only an Italian card would be accepted. Not for me!

Sergios
  7/11/2018 12:06 EST

Amazon.it took my amex card. As far as American coffee, if you use espresso with a red lable, like lavaza or ili red, they are lighter roasts with more acid and less alkali similar to French or Vienna roast. Also, you will be amazed about the number of closed retail stores in the states due to the Amazon syndrome.

whidden39
  7/11/2018 12:16 EST

BTW, I use the same US VISA credit card with Amazon in the US, UK and Italy. Sidebar: When you use your US credit cards at any merchant online, they often will suggest being able to “conveniently” convert your transaction from euro to dollars. However, the exchange rate is usually unfavorable to the consumer. I always buy in Euro and let my US card issuer do the conversion with a much more attractive rate. This is especially attractive since I made sure before I got to Italy that all my cards have no foreign transaction fees.

Sergios
  7/11/2018 12:18 EST

Thanks Widden, I was wondering about that.

maluza86
  7/11/2018 12:37 EST

I use CheBanca...and they had no problem giving me a mortgage, bank account and credit card. I use Amazon.it all the time an pay with PayPal.it as I do all my bills, electric, gas and internet. I linked my visa to my paypal.

Sergios
  7/11/2018 13:35 EST

Janilee, I think you are misreading me. I can live in many places happily. My criteria when i first started thinking about expating was to live where Rosemary can grow wild and places where I can touch remnants of [my] civilization from the beginning. My criteria has expanded somewhat and has been modified somewhat. First, rosemary can grow in some pretty miserable heat. Its not not having found the right place, its more not having seen all my choices yet. Your'e probably right, I'll come to a place and decide that that is the place. Probably because I'll be too tired to go anywhere else.

TheresaIT
  7/11/2018 15:39 EST

I use my Mastercard from the US. On Amazon.it. Have never had a problem.

TheresaIT
  7/11/2018 15:50 EST

Ah! I was also wondering about that! Thanks for clarifying.

TheresaIT
  7/11/2018 15:57 EST

Thanks for the heads on the coffee options, Sergios. I've seen them in the supermarkets, but have never tried them. Will give it a try when I get back.

It will be interesting to see what's changed in the US, although TJ's is almost a cult - I was a loyal shopper for a couple of decades - started out in Seattle and continued in New York. Hoping I'll find it filled with all my favorite products!

HenryGiovanni
  7/11/2018 16:20 EST

Hi Janilee,
There's hardly anything I can't do without, but my big mug of coffee (which I did without for 5 mos) is closer to my heart than lots of other things. I couldn't fit the 12-cup version into the suitcase and had to settle for the 5-cup size (which, practically speaking, only makes less than two mugs, so I have to make two pots each morning! Oh, how the sun shines down on my day!). And, being the particular type, I tend to use whatever espresso I have on hand. Here, Lavazza Suerte works fine. Back home, it was Spanish La Llave that I liked. Like cooking, whatever is at hand goes into the pot. And I only needed one of those small travel converters. Works fine. I'm happy.

Someone else on this thread noted that Amazon is putting lots of retail places out of business. With some exceptions, and without any intent to virtue-signal because I don't care, I like to "spend my money close to home". Always have. This means hire the neighbor kids for yardwork (when I had a yard), support the local stores, and etc. Jeff Bezos is not my neighbor, and I don't particularly like him or his style. I use Amazon as a last resort. I'm sure my wife makes up for any discomfort their accounting dept might feel as a result of my disdain.

One other thing: I don't buy German appliances. I live in Italy, I will (and did) buy Italian appliances. We just bought a used Fiat Panda yesterday. There were lots of choices, but this is my home now ((slaps another Italian mosquito)).

While back in CA last month I stocked up on herbs and spices and brought them back. For some reason I could not find ground Cumin here (among other things). I also bought a small mortar-and-pestle for just such exigencies. And brought some Sriracha hot sauce (and jalapeno seeds), but couldn't fit the peanut butter (nuts!) or cans of chili (nuts again, but I can make my own chili easily enough, and better, to boot). All that and pants; I lost two sizes in the five months being here. and was beginning to look like one of those gang-bangers with his pants falling down. Couldn't have that. What WOULD people think? Probably can't lose much more. Ate lots of American burgers when back there, but that's all gone by now.

As for CA, immediate stress on entry, the gut-churning kind. Won't miss that or the state, not one bit. The propaganda radio in the car was working overtime. What people talk themselves into believing truly bewilders me. There is a complete disconnect from any reality. Folks who've read earlier posts already know, so I won't get into it again. Don't watch much TV; again, it's only propaganda. And on that note, I didn't get that internet service thing (VPN? I forget.) so I could watch "all my favorite US TV shows" (both of them), but can find what I want on youtube and watch it on that TV out there that's so smart I can't figure out how to work it so the actual channels come in. Still don't watch much TV.

Don't care.

Life could be worse, but it's not.
Cheers, John.

PS: By the way, you are in a heavy earthquake area. Marsica (sometimes called Avezzano) at 7:55 AM on January 13, 1915; 1/4 of the population (or, roughly, 30,000 out of 120,000 in the region) killed almost immediately when the quake struck before folks got out of the house for the day). In the city of Avezzano, 96% of the people died that morning.

Then there's L'Aquila, more recent (2009), which still hasn't been rebuilt according to my Alpini friends.

Followed by Amatrice (ruined, 2016) and Norcia (shortly after Amatrice in 2016). If you look at a map, all of these are in a more-or-less direct line up the Appenini and are clearly on a fault. Be earthquake-safe, to the extent you can. I've lived through my fair share of quakes in San Diego, but nothing like those. Glad to be on the Padovan Plains now.

janilee
  7/11/2018 18:04 EST

codybrandy, I've never had a problem with any Amazon. I can't remember the application procedure, but I can tell you that one of the first things we did when we got here was to get a Codice Fiscal. It was very simple and we got our number online immediately. We were later mailed a hard copy. We used it constantly until we got our Carta di Sanitario, which has the codice on it. The only other thing I can think of is that we use either an Amazon card or a bank card with no foreign exchange fees that allows us to pay in euros. You can PM me if you think I can help you hash it out.

janilee
  7/11/2018 18:11 EST

TheresaIT, my husband, a Dunkin' Donuts addict, is the coffee aficionado in the house. He says Lavazza Oro is as good a coffee as any American brew that isn't DD. IT is a finer grind, but you use the same measurements you would with U.S. coffees. I find that the filters are more expensive than in the States, so I'd buy Lavazza and fill that suitcase with filters.

janilee
  7/11/2018 18:16 EST

Sergios, let's make a bet. I'm betting you'll find a spot you know is yours. If not, let me know and I'll invite you to my spot to see if that might be it. If not, you'll at least get a U.S. Southern meal of fried chicken, mashed potatoes, green beans, and biscuits. Now, what's your favorite kind of pie? :)

janilee
  7/11/2018 18:32 EST

HenryGiovanni, now aren't you just a little ray of sunshine? You forgot 1984. That was when my village was split in two by a quake. Every place has its safety issues. I lived in Tornado Alley most of my life. There, we had a basement. Here, we have tension cables across the building. As they say: Where every you, there you are. As for shopping, I'm glad you are able to shop locally and find what you need. Unfortunately, it would be quite a drive for me to shop locally. The few retail stores in our area carry Chinese products almost exclusively. By the way, those few things you do miss can be found on.....Amazon. :)

Sergios
  7/12/2018 03:11 EST

Pecan with maple ice cream.

janilee
  7/12/2018 05:29 EST

Sergios, that'll work. But, you haven't lived until you've tried blueberry pecan ice cream. It has a flavor like divinity candy. I don't have an ice cream maker, though, so I'll stick to pecan pie and a few chocolate chip/pecan cookies.

Sergios
  7/12/2018 06:19 EST

Janilee, I've been making ice cream for many years even though I'm lactose intolerant. When I first started I made fresh blueberry (I picked from mountain bushes) ice cream. I had never used blueberries before and I just threw them into the mix. The ice cream was delicious with the exception that the berries froze solid and had the texture of steel ball bearings. No one lost a tooth but that ice cream became legend amongst my friends.

TheresaIT
  7/12/2018 06:47 EST

Janilee,

Thanks for the heads up! It's generally cheaper than other brands of coffee, as well! Who knew!

Will add "coffee filters" to my shopping list. Hope I have enough room in my suitcase!

codybrandy
  7/12/2018 07:20 EST

Thank you for the reply...maybe my problem is that my US Visa still has my US address not an Italian address??? I'll go back to the bank (Carispezia) and try again or maybe try another bank. Hope all is well with your settling in...seems to take years to iron out the problems...but they get fewer and fewer...we do love Liguria...it's cooler here than in Boston! Perfetto!

Sergios
  7/12/2018 07:24 EST

Coddybrand, exactly the address has to machine what the credit card company has on file. Since most credit cards don't allow you to be a resident of a different country, you need to us your USA address.

Sergios
  7/12/2018 07:30 EST

About coffee filters, I bought an automatic (espresso) coffee maker. It has two buttons that can be programmed. I programmed one to make Americano. The coffee comes out fine. The one I use uses coffee beans that it grinds as needed. That is my big problem. There is a very limited choice of coffee beans but you can buy hundreds of different types of coffee pods (the cloth ones). Those machines are much cheaper and allow you to do the same thing, that is to make cafe Americano.

velvet
  7/12/2018 08:20 EST

Could all the marvellous cooks on this forum please take pity on an Aussie who is not a great cook and send us food parcels. Although probably not the ice cream as it is really not the weather at the moment. It was -7 the other morning. Good comfort food would be great. Sergios your tales always make us laugh.

HenryGiovanni
  7/12/2018 08:50 EST

Hi Janilee,
I've been called a lot of things but "little ray of sunshine" hasn't been one so far!

I research medals, and their history, from the Risorgimento through WWI, including earthquake medals. Your town-splitter wouldn't qualify on age, though the others happened in my time-frame of knowledge (for earthquakes in Italia).

Didn't mean to be a damper on life. If it's any consolation, I left earthquake-country behind, but my new garage is downslope, so I put everything up 6" or so, on pallets. The "Diluvio Universale" (think Noah and his ark; Italians name these weather events!) put at least 9" of water into my garage. Had to throw a lot of stuff out. Sort of a forced down-sizing, if you will. Alas. If it ain't one natural disaster then it's another.

Lots of Chinese stuff here, including food at the restaurants and almost all pizza places. I will still try to buy local, if only because I live here and it has to improve the economy at least a little bit. I may or may not always be successful on that. On the downside, buying something particular seems to take more time now; one must first find it.

One last word on coffee-makers: they all seem to be complicated here, with every sort of electronic choice under the sun available for the price of the time it takes to figure out the programming functions. I just wanted a simple on-off switch. I don't really require programmed coffee. It's easy to make life hard, but hard to keep life easy. I just want coffee, and lots of it.

And those plastic-dose coffee makers (Keurig comes to mind) just don't cut it; the coffee is terrible. That is my opinion; results may vary.

Cheers, John.

Sergios
  7/12/2018 09:04 EST

HenryGiovanni, I understand your reluctance to try an automatic machine for coffee, these machines are not really anymore complicated than a Mr. Coffee. Once they are setup, which takes just a minute or so {you simply hold the button when making your first cup until you reach the amount you want and then you let go. After that the machine is programmed to repeat that quantity} you can have your first cup in less than a minute in the morning or anytime. The pods are not like the Nespresso or Kurige, they are little coffee pucks covered in cloth, like tea bags. And, unlike Nespresso, every coffee roaster in the world makes these so you have a wide choice.
I live adjacent to a major city, Palermo, so my food choices are reasonably good with several large chain supermarkets in the area as well as smaller specialty shops. Its still not what I want but it isn't bad. I still want to live someplace that has a daily market like they have [had] in Florence, San Lorenzo, and others I've seen in Paris and other cities. I would like that without the Big City part.

HenryGiovanni
  7/12/2018 09:17 EST

Hi Sergios,
I understand your points, but sometimes, at least for me, the joy is in the doing, and not in just getting it done, if that makes any sense. I still like to cut up garlic by hand, into tiny little pieces that stick to me and smell "garlicky". Same with rosemary: pick it, wash it, strip it, cut it by hand. By the way, those two processes often follow one another in short order, just before it all goes into the pan with the oil. I want to enjoy those smells, that stickiness, the cutting, and everything else.

I'm about 4 miles out of Padova, where they have a fresh market every day (not Sundays). I don't get into town every day, but when I do we always pass by and see what's to be had. Here in Tencarola there is a fresh market every Friday (with food and dry goods) and Sat (local bio foodstuffs only). Nobody asked me, they just did it. Otherwise, it's the local supermarkets for the general stuff (Italian-made, where possible).
Cheers, John.

Sergios
  7/12/2018 09:31 EST

I also have a French Press and my hands have a perennial aroma to them, garlic, onions, basil and, of course rosemary, with the occasional thyme and marjoram, all of which are growing in my back yard. Not to mention the chilies, so I won't.

TheresaIT
  7/12/2018 09:40 EST

Hi Codybrandy,

Just an FYI, my card has my US address, so strange that you're having problems. Worth a call to VISA, but trusting you've already done so.

Good luck with it!

TheresaIT
  7/12/2018 09:42 EST

Thanks for the coffee tip, Sergios.

I was surprised at how good the coffee was when I rented the apartment I stayed at in Prague. They had one of the machines that uses the "pod" filters. Really good.

HenryGiovanni
  7/12/2018 09:44 EST

Hi Sergios,
Best you didn't mention the chilis!

My old house was about 15 miles (20 minutes) from the Mexican border. I grew up on chilis. They have chilis here, some hot, but it seems to be a luck-of-the-draw matter. I really like jalapenos, and so brought some seeds back with me (only to see jalapeno seeds for sale at eurobrico on my return! Doesn't matter; I'm covered.). Serranos (just a bit hotter) were interchangeable with jalapenos for cooking and eating purposes. I've had jalapenos so hot couldn't finish them, but that is very rare, for me. I like to finish what I start, especially where peppers are concerned. I do like my chilis.

One thing to note: the capsaicins (sp?) in ALL peppers (including paprika) are really good for you. Anything worth doing is worth over-doing, so I try to get more than my fair share of peppers into my diet!!

Good thing you didn't mention the chilis!
Cheers, John.

TheresaIT
  7/12/2018 10:04 EST

Just realized the coffee machine I used when in Prague took ground coffee, not the pods. The owner supplied Lily Coffee - I have had coffee that used the pods, however, and recall it being quite good.

The machine in Prague was also easy to use, though I needed some instruction to get started!

whidden39
  7/12/2018 10:46 EST

My cards also have only my US address. This is the billing address. On the three Amazons I use, I have several delivery addresses stored. One of these is my Italian address. Whenever I order online, I always use the US address as the billing address. This is critical. Then I use one of my delivery addresses — often it’s my Italian address. Never had a problem with these transactions.

whidden39
  7/12/2018 10:46 EST

My cards also have only my US address. This is the billing address. On the three Amazons I use, I have several delivery addresses stored. One of these is my Italian address. Whenever I order online, I always use the US address as the billing address. This is critical. Then I use one of my delivery addresses — often it’s my Italian address. Never had a problem with these transactions.

lifelover
  7/12/2018 13:24 EST

That flavor sounds AMAZING

janilee
  7/13/2018 12:48 EST

Sergios, I'm glad you've got a story like that to keep you humble. We've all got one. Next time, though, put the berries in at the beginning (with the pecan chips) and let them get beaten up. The ice cream turns a beautiful lavender color.

Sergios
  7/13/2018 14:18 EST

Janlee, I've learned, I've learned. Here is a tip. When you want to make fruit ice cream out of season, get a jar of the best fruit preserves you can buy and used that with the cream and optional eggs. It actually comes out really good considering you need to "let them get beaten up". But only the best preserves.

Sergios
  7/17/2018 06:46 EST

More about coffee. I was on the amazon.it site buying something when I saw a coffee maker being offered. I don't really need one but I looked and attached was an offer for coffee. I never considered buying coffee from Amazon but I did a search for Arabica coffees and found quite a few organic whole bean coffees from around the world at reasonable prices. I ordered some Ethiopian, Sumatra, Brazil Santos, and a Hawaiian blend. I thought some of you would like to know.

ReziTT
  7/17/2018 07:22 EST

Thank you Sergios for starting a vital discussion for those of us who have left the US with stars in our eyes, only to find that wherever you go, there you are. Some of us, myself included, left prestigious occupations that constituted a great deal of our identity. Now, we are nothing but an American in a strange land. The smaller the locale, the more exclusive is the club entry. This is exciting for awhile, but then reality hits. One must find a way to fit in or to while away the hours with pleasure and fulfillment. Or, as you suggest, you move on to another adventure which is what I am considering. It's also tough if you are alone. Part of my consideration in moving here was that I have remote family (first cousins twice removed) in this country who I barely see once the novelty of the American cousin wore off for them. I guess my only piece of advice for would-be expats is that you really need to cultivate a hobby and passion (preferably before you get here) that you can springboard into a full-time endeavor. That, and to rent, not buy, and move when you are experiencing more than a few months of expat fatigue which can turn into depression.

Sergios
  7/17/2018 07:28 EST

Well put ReziTT, I have close cousins with whom I am friendly with but they have their own lives to live so the monthly or by monthly visits really don't provide that "family" feel but they are there if I need them. Regardless your point about developing an interest is critical. For me its photography which leads to my other point. When I run out of things to photograph, I have hundreds of finished photos of blue and white fishing boats, it is time to look for other subjects.

bogart2
  7/17/2018 09:17 EST

Some of what you are talking about is retirement. It is a challenge moving from full-time work to not working, wherever you are. And the advice is pretty much the same.

rsetzer99
  7/17/2018 10:38 EST

I seems the 'having an interest' part would be no different where you retired Retirement in your original country without things to keep you busy would be the same. There are many posts about the stages of expat transition. Honeymoon, Crisis, Recovery and finally Adjustment. For many of the Brits here, it seems they can put off much of the adjustment as it is quite easy for them to pop back home. We are into our second year here in Italy, and have found language lessons to be perhaps one of the biggest help in assimilating. In fact, once our neighborhood found out we were taking private lessons, everyone decided to join in and help. Not only that, the more we practice our Italian, the more people start using bits of English. We are at the point now where we do not foresee running out of new things to do. Heck, we will never be done learning Italian. I also kind of like that things have transitioned from exotic and new, to everyday live in a green and pleasant land full of perhaps the kindest and most generous people I have ever met.

TheresaIT
  7/17/2018 17:56 EST

Hi Sergios,

Thanks for the heads up! Still planning to bring back some TJ's. French Roast if I can fit it in my suitcase!

TheresaIT
  7/17/2018 18:05 EST

Dear ReziTT,

I also moved alone as a single woman at the age of 64. It sounds like you're in a smaller city / town than I am, but I've found a number of resources through the visitor center, FB, and the like. I once heard it takes one to three years to adjust to a new place.

I had been feeling lonely on and off a few months after I arrived, and a wise woman from one of the expat groups here in Trieste told me that I was at a crisis point - wondering if I'd ever learn the language, get invites to join people for activities rather than being the one who always made attempts, etc. etc. - she told me that's when most people move - or go back to their home country. She encouraged me to stick it out, that things would change, and they have.

I'm not saying that's right for you, or for anyone else; we each need to follow our own path, but her advise was invaluable to me, and after 15 months feel like things are falling back into place.

She also told me that she experienced the same things I was feeling, and that she started to reach out to people she liked - telling them she was looking for friends - thought they were cool - and invited them for coffee or pizza. I recently did the same, and made a brand new, fun, simpatico friend!

I've learned that it's important to reach out, and that invitations come in time.

Big hugs to you!

TheresaIT
  7/17/2018 18:11 EST

So true, bogart2. So many people's lives stop - literally, shortly after retirement because they have no outside interests. Someone once told me she was afraid to retire, because she didn't know what she would do. She still had another year or so left before transitioning out of her full-time job. I advised her to make a list of her interests, and to begin exploring them "now," before she retired, so she would have resources already in place.

CarinaAmanda
  7/17/2018 22:31 EST

I agree with TheresaIT.

In my (limited) experience, there are cycles to living abroad. There is the "Honeymoon" phase (as mentioned by others), where everything seems grand and exciting, and full of new life.

That can last for varying time periods, depending on the person. For some, it can fade on day two, for others it can take six months, a year - who knows.

The first time I lived abroad, I was so excited, until I began to feel "culture shock" setting in. I did not know what it was at the time, so I would not have labeled it that, but it was culture shock. I yearned to go back to the US so much, but due to certain circumstances, I would have given up achieving something I had gone there to do, and so I felt pressured to "stick it out."

Another American who had been wild about the place also began to get disillusioned. He began to complain, and see the negatives. I was depressed, cried often, and missed many things.

It was such a difficult time, but I would not change that I did it.

Funny thing is, after some months went by, and spring rolled around again, my friend who had gone from not wanting to ever leave, to wanting to leave, started seeing the positives again! Kind of like what Theresa said... and to this day, when I see memorabilia that reminds me of that country, I get all teary-eyed sometimes...not out of depression, but out of thanks. :)

janilee
  7/18/2018 05:27 EST

rsetzer99, I'm with you! We were taken in by our village as if we had just been away for a while. My husband had a motorcycle accident just short of a year after we arrived. He called from the ambulance and told me to contact a friend he had grown close to and ask him if he would locate the bike and have it towed to a garage. The man had a small shop on the street below our apartment and, by the time I got things together and set out to go to the hospital, most of the village was in the street. Our friend had spread the word. I got hugs, tears, good wishes. Then, a man came running down the street yelling, "We found the bike! It is being towed to Gentile for repair." Several people debated on whether I should be allowed to drive alone. I won that one. I didn't know where our car was, but someone in the crowd knew. There ensued an argument as to who would get to drive me to where my husband had last parked the car. (Tourist season makes it hard to park close to home.) The winner of that argument immediately closed his shop and popped me in his car. As we pulled away, I looked back and saw the village waving and throwing kisses. My husband had a bad cut on his hand and lots of bumps and bruises but was able to come home the next day. He was treated like royalty while he recovered and we found anonymous gifts of food and wines on our doorstep almost every day for a week. This is why I feel more at home here than I have anywhere in the States.

janilee
  7/18/2018 06:53 EST

velvet, we moved from a two-story house over a full footprint garage and full attic into a 100 sqm apartment that was the attic of an old hotel. When we found out the cost of shipping from the States, we sold everything we could possibly get rid of. We ended up with two motorcycles, 42 large U-Haul boxes, and a small bachelor's chest I couldn't part with. We still ended up with more than we truly needed. The apartment came furnished with the stuff people don't care about anymore but don't want to throw away, but we were glad to have it. The landlord said we could keep any of it we wanted, but to get rid of what we didn't want because he didn't want it, either. It gave us the freedom of choosing what we wanted without rushing and replacing things as we pleased. It also gave us time to adapt to the Italian tradition of huge, ornate furnishings in small spaces. We learned about tempera paint on walls, which ceramic tiles show every spilled drop of water and the aggravation of all the valuable space below windows being taken up by a radiator. Living in the attic gave us the bonus of a large dormer that had been opened up and glassed in for a sunroom. We're retired and have no heirs, so we didn't try to find high-end furniture that will outlast us and be a shame to leave behind. Hello, Ikea! Once we took out the huge, dark furniture, we found we actually had some nice-sized rooms. We adapted to living with a matrimoniale bed that almost accommodates two adults and four cats, Latex paints seem to be relatively new to Italy, but those they have are great ones! (Sikkens) And, Bonus: You don't need to consider faux finishes because the plaster walls already have the finish Americans work so hard to emulate. You're pretty much going to have to tear out whatever is in the kitchen and install something that gives more efficient storage. (Love all those drawers instead of cabinets!) We don't have, or need, a dishwasher, despite the fact that I love to cook and do a lot of it. Those above the sink drain cabinets work great. We kept one bedroom, and turned the guest room into a den with a sofa bed for visitors, and made the third bedroom a man cave/office/media space. What was the living room was tough because it has SIX doors! Try making a living/dining room around that. So, the former living room is now a dining/entry area. My husband built two large storage chests that we topped with cushions, so we have window seats in the sunroom that makes a great guest sitting area. There is a tiny utility area I filled with shelves where I store craft supplies and we added a retractable clothesline for rainy days. So, plan multipurpose rooms, assume a lot of furniture you already have may be too big for a small space to work efficiently. Keep in mind the cost of shipping household goods, rather than replacing them. When you buy new things, always keep storage value in mind. Our bed has drawers under the rete and a wide headboard. Think vertical: small tables with wall lighting instead of table lamps. The bathroom: We're still trying to figure out how to reconfigure to allow a shower larger than a tardis. I'm enjoying the creativity of efficient living and it takes less than half the time to clean house, giving more time to explore. I have a single clothesline outside the window and am thrilled at the freedom air my clean laundry on sunny days. My U.S. HOA didn't allow outdoor clotheslines and I really missed the smell of sun-dried sheets. I hope this is helpful rather than intimidating because I wouldn't give up living here for anything. We rented this apartment sight unseen with plans to look around for a house. As it turns out, this is the perfect place for us and we have no desire to jump through the hoops of property ownership. So, take the leap, trust your instincts, and enjoy the good life in Bella Italia!

codybrandy
  7/18/2018 07:21 EST

Janilee, small town Italians...they are wonderful. I hope your husband is all patched up and know you must feel so comforted by all the help you both found in time of need. My husband just had his (not as scary tho) first neighbor + doctor + ambulance experience and you are so right...the friends just jump into action. I still marvel at these quiet unassuming people....drop everything, spend 9hrs in the ER with you and never think twice about it. P.S. Good for you on your move...we went a little heavier but are also getting used to smaller space. One hint...when I do get rid of that tiny shower/tub next spring...I'm getting rid of the bidet...my slogan "if you're dirty take a shower". I'll have a nice big spot left for a bigger shower and storage. Have a great day in your new paese!

Sergios
  7/18/2018 08:37 EST

Codybrandy, one of the hallmarks of civilization, the thing that most separates the barbarians of the north from the cultured of the south, an object of such utility and convenience that I can't imagine living without it and in-fact I miss very much when I travel to the backwoods, the holler, the USA. The bidet deserves its place in the marble chamber.

codybrandy
  7/18/2018 08:41 EST

Dear Sergios I love and respect you but: phooey on the mighty bidet. P.S. do you really use it?? To wash your underpinnings, feet etc??

Sergios
  7/18/2018 08:46 EST

Actually I need it rarely because I am regular and well timed in the morning to correspond with my shower. However, those days that are not, the bidet is a real life saver. People in the north and in the USA have gotten used to having that bit of extra lubrication when walking. I'm not there anymore. I am civilized now.

codybrandy
  7/18/2018 08:47 EST

TMI dear Sergios

maluza86
  7/18/2018 08:51 EST

I'm not sure there is way to discuss bidets without providing TMI...so let's just say there are those pro bidet 99% of Europeans and those that are not 99% of Americans. My wife, being Italian, had them put into our house we built in the US, which we subsequently sold to move to Italy.

I have to agree with Sergio...I am a convert and like having them.

codybrandy
  7/18/2018 08:56 EST

OK Maluza...you are another who's opinion I always respect...I give up. But do you think I'll be shunned if I have it taken out...I might return to being "The American" who moved into the paese 4 yrs ago?

rsetzer99
  7/18/2018 08:57 EST

Ah! The clothesline!!! That shot in every brochure. If you ask an Italian if they have a clothes dryer, they give you that 'are you nuts' look. Who would pay good money to dry clothes! We also discovered that the roller brushes from Brico were a little rough and gave you a really nice textured finish when you painted a wall. Really nice as it pretty much makes little flaws invisible. Ah, old Italian houses....Straight? Square? Don't be silly. Those aren't flaws....those are features. :)

Sergios
  7/18/2018 09:03 EST

All is not lost. You can buy a handheld shower handle specifically designed to replace the bidet. It mounts to the wall next to the toilet. It's also handy for cleaning the bowl. See you can be squeeky clean and have extra space too.

maluza86
  7/18/2018 09:26 EST

CodyBrandy...I think you’ll be fine...just don’t invite any Italians into your bathroom, ha, ha, ha.

The apartment we rented before we bought ours was a three bedroom, 2 bathroom and only one had a bidet...soooooooooo ;-)

islandblues
  7/18/2018 09:38 EST

Admitting to Italians you dont have a bidet, is tantamount to telling your American friends you dont have toilet paper. I too am an extreme convert!

islandblues
  7/18/2018 09:38 EST

Admitting to Italians you dont have a bidet, is tantamount to telling your American friends you dont have toilet paper. I too am an extreme convert!

janilee
  7/18/2018 13:46 EST

Since I don’t seem to be able to make the thumbs up button work and it’s a production to make individual replies on a subject, I’m giving a bulk response.
Codybrandy, Nelson is fine, thank you. It was mostly scratches, other than the lacerated palm. He landed in bushes with huge briars that poked him painfully through his leathers, but kept him from falling off the side of the mountain. Yes, our Italian country folk are the epitome of “salt of the earth. They are never afraid to show the love. You have a shower/TUB?!?!? Uptown girl!
The Bidet issue: My bidet vote is definitely thumbs up. Where else am I going to shave my legs when the shower is a ceramic refrigerator box? I am a bit disappointed in the design, though. I lived in a house designed by a British company when I lived in Saudi. That bidet had a directional faucet on the end against the wall and a fountain near the front. If I could find one of those, I’d switch out. I can’t speak of the norm because I never visited a Saudi house and the public restrooms I saw were a hole in the ground with footprint decals on either side of it. What I can’t figure out is why some Italian public restrooms have the shower things and the whole floor is a wading pond. That makes no sense, except for the fact that few of them have toilet paper. Water is cheaper than toilet paper? Why are public restrooms so rare? The mind boggles to think of what the Italian bladder and digestive system must be like.
Sergio, you are, indeed civilized; evolved even. However, I can’t thank you for the mental picture you gave me of Italian bidet users as squeaking along down the street from the cleanliness and American’s “squishing” from being…not.
rsetzer99, thanks for the info on Brico roller covers. The rest of our apartment will be treated with such. You mean Italian houses aren’t plumb, in general? I thought it was from the 10 inch thick walls settling after the earthquake of 1984.
maluza86, maybe there is a thing about the number of bidets a house needs. We, too, have 1 ½ baths and only one bidet.

Francesca122
  7/18/2018 14:47 EST

Hi John, Just finished reading your post from June, you were back in CA. Loved it...so much rings true regarding the simple thing of just enjoying our life day by day. I was very fortunate to live in Padua a few decades ago and loved and felt a little lost too as I didn't speak the language. Folks were amazing there and did so much to help. We are headed to Sicily to retire this fall and I've been getting overwhelmed with everything. I am an artist, finally, a lifelong dream and worry about creating works over there and supplies, selling etc... but I know I will figure it out somehow. We don't know if we will stay in Sicily but decided to try it for a year and see. Perhaps Italy is there for the lucky ones who find her so they can slow down and enjoy life again. Ciao Francesca coming from Vashon Island WA

francinecasalinolaura
  7/18/2018 15:05 EST

Francesca122 -

I'm looking to move to Sicilia as well as soon as my citizenship comes through.

Where do you plan to settle? Right now Siracusa is still at the top of my list.

maluza86
  7/18/2018 15:06 EST

Luckily the apartment we bought was an attic apartment that was only exterior walls, doors and windows, so we completely designed and constructed the interior to our specifications....large open kitchen dining living space, 2 bedrooms, separate laundry room with large American washer and gas vented dryer, study, craft room and two bathrooms...both with large showers and bidets ;-)

Francesca122
  7/18/2018 15:07 EST

Keep them coming John, as they keep me going. Are you making art? Just wondering.
Francesca122

Francesca122
  7/18/2018 15:56 EST

Wonderful advise...we have sold just about everything and will have another sale end of Sept. when we leave, (here putting out good vibes for getting our visas). We have a pretty new couch/chair/bed which friends are borrowing/using so that helps with the storage. My biggest problem is my art supplies, what to take/leave/store. Yes, it all can be replaced but is expensive there, Italy, and I've spent a fortune here obtaining them. I work in photography, encaustic and steel for details. I have to say goodbye to my 44" printer which is breaking my heart as it took awhile to save up for. Our other situation is trying to find an apartment where we can have room to work, I'm sure the folks who are helping are thinking we are crazy for wanting a space over 110sq.m. but we are hopeful. In our research we found in Portugal there are a lot of "old" closed school buildings, folks are buying and renovating. We are not looking to buy but has anyone heard about any such thing in Italy, Sicily??? Oh, the decisions we have to make just in getting there. If I was really smart I would just pack a suitcase the 4 cats and go leave everything else to Good Will or Habitat for Humanity, who knows that still may happen. I didn't say I was smart. Wanted to thank everyone who writes with great advise, the coffee thing,..... well I'll leave that one alone, I owned an espresso shop here in Seattle for 11 years, hate Starbucks, have a fancy machine at home, found myself just going to the local cafe and loving the espresso with everyone else. I found it a real treat. OK I'll just laugh at all the coffee stuff and enjoy the reading.
Ciao Francesca

HenryGiovanni
  7/19/2018 16:18 EST

Hi Francesca122,
It's true. Years ago someone asked me how I could be so happy mopping the floors in my house. Sometimes the joy is in the doing. Disney said to whistle while you work.

Bring your 44" printer if you can. I've owned a particular table saw for 25 years or so. I've used plenty of professional-grade table saws, professionally, None come close to this one, so I brought it with me, along with a large converter (USD $125 at Fry's. I also brought a smaller converter for smaller tools and for music in the garage while I'm working.). If you need your printer for your work, or just want it because you are comfortable using it, then make the decision to have it here. Also bring your art stuff. I've spent some time reconnoitering the supply chain here; it's expensive. I brought my old printing press, but it requires no electricity, being powered only by Armstrong units. I also brought all the pencils, paints, inks, paper, brushes, markers, tools, and other supplies that I could possibly fit into that container, which had no weight limit attached to the price. If you're not buying a container, then you have some hard choices ahead of you.

On art; still not making anything. YET. I'm still moving in!! That and the downstairs garage (the one UNDER the condos) flooded while I was in CA. We didn't have a car, so it was hard to get stuff, like shelving. I cleaned it up a bit, which mostly meant taking things out of boxes and leaving them to dry. It was a real mess for a long time.

We finally bought a car last week; an amazing experience, in itself, and a story for a different day. I truly don't understand the Italian way of doing business. But we managed it in spite of things.

Someone brought up Leroy Merlin in my Moving to Italia post. Thanks. Yesterday I drove to Leroy Merlin in Vicenza and loaded up with steel shelving. Today I installed steel shelving in the garage and finished (he lies, with a straight face) the clean-up. OK, with MOST, but not ALL, of the clean-up from last month's flood. I will have to re-make some things that were damaged before I can start up again, and I'll need to replace some tools that got sunk.

Things like that flood keep getting in the way, but I'm getting closer. Fewer things need immediate attention. In fact, I've even gotten out the accordion and copied the lessons onto my phone so I can take it into the piazza across the street and start practicing. I figure nobody will mind if I'm outside. I'm sure they'll let me know if I'm getting that bit wrong.

I also finished (finally!) the third edition of my medals book and am in the editing process. Everything takes longer than you think. I need to publish it afterwards, which was no small job last time around. That's been my main goal lately.

Once I have the garage organized again I can manage the art stuff in the heat of the day and the publishing and accordion at night. I expect we'll be done with the mandatory stuff in another month or so. After that, it's just small jobs here and there, put off for as long as possible.

I hope you like Sicilia. If you look at a globe, then you'll find that San Diego is roughly equivalent (in degrees of latitude) to Tripolitania, in Libia. Padova is about 8 degrees N of San Diego, and equals Portland, OR. It's something of a big change, for me (and they have mosquitos here). Without looking, I'd guess that Sicilia (rather large, and you didn't define the destination) is somewhere that would look like Santa Barbara, latitude-wise, maybe, if you headed straight south from your island. And I'm not even sure where that starting point would be relative to Italy. My globe is up high and my back hurts from the garage today, so it will have to wait.

No, I just can't let that go. I got it down and looked. Sicilia is, more or less, equivalent to San Francisco (but probably with better weather). And Vashon Island is roughly equivalent to Nuremberg, Germany. I figure you've got about 10 or 11 degrees heading South in your move. Big changes coming your way, too!

Good luck with the visas and all, and I hope your move goes with the fewest number of obstacles. Keep us posted, because we all want to know how it works out for you.
Cheers, John.

bogart2
  7/20/2018 02:53 EST

You should move the supplies, other than chemicals. It will cost less than replacing and give you time to locate new suppliers. If you are moving a container or being moved, there is no real added cost. If you are moving with a couple of suitcases, then sending the supplies via Ship Your Bags or the like will not be unreasonable. You should get pricing on shipping the printer and then compare to replacement cost (and consider your time lost in locating a new one).

Francesca122
  7/20/2018 20:36 EST

Hi Bogart2, thank you for the advice it really helps. The printer I will probably sell as it weighs over 350 pounds just by its self and would have to be crated the cost would be well over the cost of buying a new one. It's a canon so they would be able to ship another one. Are you an artist? Any idea if they consider oil paints chemical? I did read somewhere you say they are colours in vegetable oil and stick to it.???? I'll keep researching. We will most likely be shipping a partial container of supplies. Hope you are enjoying your new life in Italy. Ciao Francesca

Francesca122
  7/21/2018 14:13 EST

Hi Bogart2, thanks for info again...also you mention "Ship your Bags" have you used them. We have been looking at "Upack We ship", they also started doing large bags door to door $100.00. Anyone else for a good company for shipping, we aren't doing a whole container. Ciao Francesca

Francesca122
  7/21/2018 14:13 EST

Hi Bogart2, thanks for info again...also you mention "Ship your Bags" have you used them. We have been looking at "Upack We ship", they also started doing large bags door to door $100.00. Anyone else for a good company for shipping, we aren't doing a whole container. Ciao Francesca

bogart2
  7/22/2018 01:33 EST

Re art supplies: I did not move such things so I don't know what the rules are. But anything caustic or flammable is probably out as is anything that is temperature sensitive.
I did use a bag shipping service (which I am having trouble locating) that worked well. Up to 60 pounds per bag, picked up from a friend after we left and delivered to the new address. I know others have as well as I got the idea from discussions on this list. There are a number of services -- include the vacation delivery services as the pricing is all that matters. I looked at UPack but rejected it for my purposes.

Napol01
  7/22/2018 11:45 EST

I used Send My Bag a company based in the UK when I shipped a small box to Italy. I highly recommend them. They are efficient got my box in three days, great customer service and easy to follow their instructions. They were half the cost of DHL, Fedex, UPS even the US Postal Service. They do have a long list as to what you can't ship but you can call their customer service line and they will gladly assist you, trust me I called many times and surprisingly they are open late hours.
Good luck.

mrosephoto
  7/22/2018 11:51 EST

Thanks bogart2. Still checking unpack sites. Will post later on how it all worked out
Francesca122

TheresaIT
  7/22/2018 12:09 EST

I also used Send My Bag. Very good customer service. I thought they were a bit expensive, but don't know how they compare to other companies. Cost was around $168 for a large suitcase.

Stellalebret
  10/4/2018 14:50 EST

Great write up. My brother feels exactly the same after 10 years. I must admit there is a hint of this for me after 2 months, but I couldn't bear to live in the UK again!

thefountain
  10/4/2018 21:04 EST

Thank s for the insite. To be honest I got so overwhelmed that I cancelled my flight to Italy to start looking for a place to live -
It freaked me out. I don't know how to release the fear of moving. You see I have no family in America and very few friends. Family is important to me. As I get older I don't want to be in America feeling alone and scared should something happen to me. But in Italy with a large family and the respect to take care of the elderly at home this gives me safety. Even if I was put in a home at least people will visit. In America people don't even call to see if I am ok when I don't feel well. I miss my parents and all the
Italian traditions, the sound of the language etc. So, how do I get past thge anxiety of just looking.
I know others experience this but What is the first mental step to take. Lonely in america. Any advise is appreciated. My friends call me Sunshine.

thefountain
  10/4/2018 21:04 EST

Thank s for the insite. To be honest I got so overwhelmed that I cancelled my flight to Italy to start looking for a place to live -
It freaked me out. I don't know how to release the fear of moving. You see I have no family in America and very few friends. Family is important to me. As I get older I don't want to be in America feeling alone and scared should something happen to me. But in Italy with a large family and the respect to take care of the elderly at home this gives me safety. Even if I was put in a home at least people will visit. In America people don't even call to see if I am ok when I don't feel well. I miss my parents and all the
Italian traditions, the sound of the language etc. So, how do I get past thge anxiety of just looking.
I know others experience this but What is the first mental step to take. Lonely in america. Any advise is appreciated. My friends call me Sunshine.

thefountain
  10/4/2018 21:34 EST

John you hit the nerve that I needed to be hit. I need to move /change out of necessity. That is firghtening to me. The move is to be with my cousins, as i have no other family (noone in america). But this move is scaring me so much. Silly I know. No real friends in America but this move is still scaring me. Any advise.
You and Sergio have such good advise. I need a real push/advise from you. Thank. Sunshine

Sergios
  10/5/2018 01:22 EST

The fountain, I never intended to scare anybody away from traveling, exploring, changing. The opposite. My problem is, and it is my problem, I look for something new after what was new has become familiar. Most people are not like that, from what I can see. All I can tell you, given the description of your life in the USA, is that I would stop thinking about it and just do it. What can go wrong? And if it does, do something else afterwards. Even if the Italians that you think will look after you turn out to be jerks, at least you will be in Italy. If you have a reasonable income or savings you will live better in Italy.

rsetzer99
  10/5/2018 03:34 EST

You have what I call 'decision paralysis'. It happens to many people I know. They are so afraid of making the wrong decision, that they end up making no decision. The famous American general Patton once said that more battles were lost because no decision was made, than were lost because a wrong decision was made. His point was that it was very rare that a decision was completely wrong. Even if not perfect, it was possible to adjust after to make it work. At the end of the day, there is no perfect house, or perfect town.

codybrandy
  10/5/2018 03:39 EST

Ms Sunshine/Fountain, Sergio is so right...maybe think of this as a trial not a forever move. Rent don't buy (selling can be a multi year adventure) but look for the area you think you might be happiest. Don't isolate yourself too far out from people and maybe find an area with more english speakers who can help you assimilate. Unless you have been visiting your Italian cousins often and know them well don't put too much hope that they will instantly become best friends. You will walk in your new town, go to the local bar/forno, get involved with the local Pro Loco (they do all the feste etc. in the area), meet people, take language courses and all sorts of activities to help you settle in. If you are unhappy where you are...take the leap. Also it's true, you can live quite cheaply here. Best of luck.

Wineladywhims
  10/5/2018 09:00 EST

OMG.... Thank you for this post! I am experiencing the same thing...Time to make the decision!! Wow, you just made my day

HenryGiovanni
  10/5/2018 10:33 EST

Hi Sunshine,
I apologize for taking so long to respond to your request, but my computer could no longer find the wi-fi signal. It's been a few days now without internet. Fortunately, I brought a spare new computer with us last year, but then forgot the links and the passwords. I swear, if it's not one thing then it's another!

I think it is your e-mail that has hit a nerve, and I can offer only words in support. Perhaps they will suffice.

I believe rsetzer99 said it well: your choice may not be perfect but it is better than not making a choice. About 25 years ago, when starting law school with my pre-law degree in Sculpture, I chose to adopt two mottos to get me through an extraordinary change of life:
1) Damn the Torpedoes, Full Speed Ahead; and
2) Adapt, Improvise, Overcome.

When seeking a resolution to a problem, I would mentally toss "pennies on a scale", meaning weigh the pros and cons. For big decisions the "penny" process could take days, or even weeks. More often, the process would be pretty short-lived because the answer quickly became obvious as the pennies tilted the scale to one side or the other.

I would then have a decision concerning something I wanted to do. So the next question to answer was "Can I afford it?" The answer is always "No" (Scottish blood). Having decided I wanted to do something but couldn't afford it, my very next question was "Can I afford to NOT do it?" If the answer is "Yes", then the problem is solved because it's something that is not really necessary. However, in this case, two "Nos" make a "Yes", so if I couldn't afford to NOT do it then I had to do it. One might be surprised how many things should be done when approached by the negative of not doing it.

I am now at the position of wanting to do something, having decided that I must do it because I can't afford to not do it. I think you might be at this point now, from your e-mail.

Time for the mottos. I've made a decision, so it's time to act. "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead." Anyone can google that phrase and find how it originated, or at least the attribution of origination, and it's a story worth reading. My short version is that when one wants to change, Life will send "torpedoes" your way to try to prevent you from changing. Little things (unexpected bills, a flat tire, a job loss, etc) pile on you and you almost want to give up. Don't do that. Damn those torpedoes. The funny thing is that when you ignore them (torpedoes), then Life quits sending them at you.

The first motto, while good for starting, rarely ever gets me home. A battle plan never survives the first shot, because the enemy has his own battle plan, and it conflicts with yours, obviously.

Time for the second motto: "Adapt, Improvise, Overcome." Like rsetzer99 says, your choice won't be perfect. That's fine. Just adapt to what happens. Life is little more than continual change (the only Constant, some say). One adapts by accepting that change will come. Own that change by improvising to suit your particular needs. Bear in mind that to overcome sometimes means that you have improvised your goals (probably a better description is that you have adapted your goals and are improvising new means to achieve them). Or else you reached those goals and now need new goals.

A long time ago I read an advice column. A woman wanted to go to college, but wouldn't graduate until she was 65 (I forget her exact age, but she was a late student). Ann Landers (?) asked her how old she would be by that time if she didn't go to college. I always liked that response; it clarifies an option when one places the question into the time-frame of a limited life. This might be you right now; you want to move but are afraid to make that change. So I'll ask, where will you be in 5 years if you don't move now (or next year)? It's kind of like that question "Can I afford to NOT do it?"

Life is change, so live your life by embracing change. Sergios does this, I think, and seems to like it. Life will still change even if you don't embrace that change, so better to just accept it and move forward. Change is always frightening, at first. Humans are creatures of habit. But confidence replaces fear when you start acting upon your plan.

As a purely practical matter, when faced with indecision, I like to make a list, with checkboxes. It helps to start moving. Be generous with your list; divide things up so that you can check off a few boxes each day. This will keep you focused and help you move forward. Every two or three days make a new list, because new things will come up even as other things get done and drop off the list. This is a simple, 10-minute process; I make mine by hand because it should be something quick and easy. Checking off those boxes is a confidence-builder if ever there was one.

One last thing: trust yourself. The only time to look backwards is when you feel you are not moving forwards. That is the only time it's OK to look back; so you can see how far you've already come. Look back, note your accomplishments, which represent progress. See who you are, who you've become. See what you've done. Note that you have already done things that once seemed too hard, or maybe impossible (a word one should never apply to oneself). Trust that you can accomplish yet another task you've set for yourself. Then get back to work and move forward with your plan.

I hope there is something in here that helps. I am not an expert on anything, nor much of a motivational speaker. Sometimes I can't even motivate myself. Cheers, John.

maluza86
  10/5/2018 11:34 EST

So being a military guy...one motto I've always lived by is "no plan survives initial contact with the enemy". Which means, yes, you need to have a plan, but realize that it will always change. A plan is no more than a point to diverge from. Without one, you will never get where you need to go...but you must remain flexible and not be wedded solely to the initial plan. So in your case...you move to city X in Italy (your plan). It doesn't work out and city X isn't all its cracked up to be, but Italy is, so you travel and find the place that is right for you. And what John wrote is spot on...what's the worst thing that can happen? What I'm reading from your post, you're not happy and lonely in the US so although highly unlikely given what all the expats write on here, that is highly unlikely to happen in Italy. Then I'll leave you with this...."What is holding you back?"

In bocca al lupo.

HenryGiovanni
  10/5/2018 16:00 EST

Hi Wineladywhims,
If your thanks were for my post, then thanks. I wrote it particularly for Sunshine/thefountain, but am glad if others find it useful.

I should note, for you and Sunshine, how I once felt about change. This was when I went from Sculpture to Law. One can easily guess that my background was "unlike" everyone else's (gross understatement), and they were all so damn smart. Truly. Idiots don't get into law school (absent political or other favors being called in), and lots of smart people don't get out of law school. I was neither; just determined. And besides, once started, I couldn't go back without debt too heavy to repay. There really was no option except to succeed. Nothing like pressure.

Change always came at me like a Mack truck. I clearly remember feeling like a prisoner standing on the "plank" of a pirate ship. A sword was behind me, urging me forward, and sharks waited below for my next move.

Surprisingly, every time I got up the courage to take another step, that plank grew longer by one step. This is not a dream, because I was forced to make decisions that had real consequences. And I was EVER at the end of that plank, but it was always an amazing thing to find that I was still on that plank. Mind you, the sword was always behind me and the sharks were always waiting. Still, that plank grew every single time I decided to take a "leap of faith".

So I think that the prior post about torpedoes is valid. Life will try to discourage one from changing (plank, sword, sharks: it's discomfiting), as will one's friends (I'd know more about that if I had any friends). I should clarify that: by "friends", I really mean "acquaintances". True friends will support you in times of change, as my two now-dead real friends used to do. Acquaintances, on the other hand, view your change as a reminder of their own contentment with mediocrity, and are more than happy to be your ball-and-chain to keep you from showing what can, in fact, be accomplished with just a little bit of effort (OK, maybe a lot of effort. Certainly more effort than they are willing to give). They know that when your life changes they risk being left behind. Whether that is a true assessment of the "risk" is of no concern of mine because they are your acquaintances, not mine. I can only say that my acquaintances acted in that manner: some derisive of my intent to change, laughing right in my face; some belittling my dreams; some just trying to hang on to whatever relationship we enjoyed; many were co-workers who wanted me to stay (some others were just as happy to see me leave, I might add); and such. These are the "torpedoes" that Life sends at you. Once you have made up your mind, don't change it on account of anyone else's opinion.

Because when you take that next step on the plank, you will find that Life actually agrees with your choice. Sure, the initial torpedoes will seem like major hits, but they aren't, and if you ignore them, then Life gets on your side and helps you to change.

I don't know if any of this makes sense to anyone but me, so use it if you can. I am not qualified to act as a counselor, but many on this site helped me, and I owe much to all of them. I am glad to return any small favor I can if it helps someone to reach their own personal goal. That said, I pretend to no expertise. It is more a debt of gratitude.
Cheers, John.

thefountain
  10/5/2018 17:25 EST

Hi all. I didn't see my response to all of you. If you didn't see my post let me know.
Sunshine

thefountain
  10/5/2018 17:53 EST

Hi all. So I didn't find my response to all of you and it is important that I respond. Thank you all for taking the time for all your great advise. I guess life gave me a kick in the pants and knocked me down- from losing my family in America, losing my parents (my rocks) had an abusive/cheating exhusband and breast cancer. But I am gradually getting my fight back. From what you all wrote I realized as a former accountant life cannot fit into the columns perfectly as life is perfectly imbalanced. As a former manager i remembered I wrote the rules and reg manuals and then I remembered that I had to revise the manuals. And so this applies to the move. Make a plan and revise as needed. I also remembered as a little girl I would walk with my dad and as we walked he would say left, left, left ,right, left. It somehow made me feel more in charge. And so in life If we walk with power it doesn't matter if we walk straight ahead or change direction we must always be in charge and not be shaken but be able to adjust.
Well almost reaching 65 I need to take charge and form my adjustable plan because where I live no one takes the time like you all did in responding to my post. So one day when I move I want to invite you and your families to celebrate Ferragosto with me as a thank you. Thank you again. All the best to you and your families.

HenryGiovanni
  10/5/2018 17:58 EST

Hi Sunshine,
I do not seek it, but I do not see it.
Cheers, John.

codybrandy
  10/5/2018 18:05 EST

Hello again Sunshine...you stay upbeat...you've been given a lot of lemons now time to make that lemonade. Good luck and keep in touch. Exciting life ahead...be open to accepting it.

HenryGiovanni
  10/5/2018 18:36 EST

Hi Sunshine,
"I see", said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw.

I hope I have been of some help.
Cheers, John.

almare2
  10/5/2018 18:50 EST

I think it is so nice that you have all pitched in with your encouragement and advice. What a great group of people on this forum! Makes me feel all warm inside to be a part of it. Happy weekend, everyone!

thefountain
  10/7/2018 11:02 EST

Hi John. Sorry it is taking do long to respond. I have a such bad allergies, dizzy, nausea etc. It is even hard to think. I can't even go out today because of the high pollen . I did see in Campagnia there is no allergies!
I appreciate everything you say and agree 100%. You should be a counselor. Such wise advise.
Once the allergies are over and I have a clear mind I will put a new revised attitude and plan together.
Until then be well.
Warm regards
Sunshine

thefountain
  10/7/2018 11:06 EST

Hi codybrandy. Sorry it took so long to respond. Allergies where I live a very bad - dizzy, nausea etc.
Thank you for the kind words.
I will keep everyone updated.
Warm regards. Sunshine

thefountain
  10/7/2018 11:09 EST

This is definitely a great group of kind and caring human beings.
I haven't met anyone where I live that took so much time to help.
I can say they are my friends. ??

miki184
  10/7/2018 12:04 EST

Dear Sunshine,

I know I will probably get flak for my response, but I can't help wondering where you live or who the people are that you call 'friends'.

I understand you are still in the States and it seems (at least to me and excuse me if I misunderstand) that you feel that it is the Americans who are cold and cruel hearted. Well, I just want to say that I live in Italy and can say exactly the same as you. When I'm sick no one calls or comes round to see how I am either. Oh yes, if I call and ask I'm sure I could get someone to come over, but it pretty much has to come from me. So as they say, tutto il mondo e' paese.

As far as the Americans go, some years ago when my uncle was still alive in of all places; the Bronx, his neighbors always took good care of him. I remember him telling me that the new neighbor would cook him full meals when he had the flu and have her nephew bring them over. I would like to add that she was happily married and only about 40 years his junior so it wasn't a question of hoping for a romance. That is just one example. All the neighbors banned together and would offer help to me too when I went to visit. Funny but that doesn't happen here. I live in an apartment building where there is actually closer contact and yet I basically have no interaction with my neighbors.

It might even shock you as it did me that a friend of mine was actually disturbed when her neighbor brought her and her husband a bottle of spumante to welcome them to the building. Just as I was about to say how nice, she preceded me by saying, 'Can you imagine the nerve?' I merely laughed to myself thinking I guess it's just a matter of culture.

What I am trying to say to you is that you may be unhappy wherever you are now, but please don't expect Italy to be utopia because it isn't.

With that said, I don't want to discourage you, just want you to know that no place is perfect.

thefountain
  10/7/2018 14:03 EST

Don't get me wrong. I don't believe all Americans don't care. Where i live people are very clickish and so busy- self centered they don't want their schedules interrupted. Today is Sunday and I always go to church. I volunteer in church on Sundays. Of All the people I contacted to let them know why I wouldn't be not there not one asked if I needed anything. Since 8:30 am till now almost 2 in the afternoon not one Person contacted me to see how I am feeling. As they all know I have no family here.
I totally agree with you that no place is perfect. But with the amount of family I have in Italy
I believe (hopefully i am not wrong) at least one person would care.
The other thing about Italy is that I miss the traditions, the food, the feelings, the sound of the language. None of which I have here. I was raised with all beautiful Italian things - now all this is dieing. And the worst part is so many people I know who came from Italy and are here wish they could move back. They too miss all things Italian. So, yes no place is perfect. I guess the perfectly imperfect is where you feel the most comfortable and call home.
So the best way to know where home is by visiting and visiting until you know in your gut where home really is.

Well thanks for your view. All the best. Sunshine

Maria222
  10/7/2018 14:09 EST

For sure, no place is perfect. You just have to trust your gut, and visit. I’ve been several times, and Sicilia is definitely where my heart is.
Maria

thefountain
  10/7/2018 14:31 EST

My last response was to answer miki184

HenryGiovanni
  10/7/2018 17:09 EST

Hi Sunshine,
I hope you get better soon. You are down in Florida, if I remember correctly. A state I've never visited. Doesn't matter; the list-making can wait a day or two, but Time is rarely on our side, so keep it at the top of the priority list.

No pedestals, please; they make fat heads. : ) Just plain John works for me, and I'm truly glad if I said something you can use. All I have to offer is words, but if you need some then I have some to share.
Cheers, John.

miki184
  10/7/2018 17:59 EST

Thanks for your response Sunshine. I'm so glad you didn't take it as a negative criticism because that was not my intent. I confess I too felt like you many years ago thinking once I was in Italy life would be 'perfect?' Well, it isn't but it isn't 'bad' either. I have lots of things to do and know many people with different interests so I can usually find someone to do something interesting with.

Italian songs are a thing of the past here (I'm in a northern city) and traditions are not as strong as one might think. For instance in my Italian American family we would never have thought of going off on a holiday unless it was with the family and skipping Easter lunch was unheard of. Here instead, it's quite normal to go off with whom ever you please without thinking twice. And did you know that Halloween is one of the most anticipated 'holidays' of the year? When I came nobody even knew what it was execpt for what they saw in the movies. I just mean that I guess even Italy has become 'globalized' in it's traditons. And if we talk about food - Starbucks just opened a mega store/bar in Milan, MacDonald's offers Big Macs galore, even Pizza Hut has landed!!!
Hopefully when you get here you will find your relatives are indeed your best friends and will be there when you need them. I met a woman years ago tired of the States, bought a house in her family's little town only to find she had nothing in common with her relatives. She stuck it out for as long as she could and finally put the place up for sale and went off to seek greener pastures.
I think in the end you are no doubt doing the right thing (and certainly I am no one to tell you not to, after all I too took a chance!) - to plan to come - as from what you say you don't have much to lose, but just be careful and don't close all your doors until you are sure this is the place for you. ;-)

thefountain
  10/7/2018 21:04 EST

Thank you John . Yes I know time isn't on our side. I wondered how fast the years have gone as I am almost 65. My mind keeps saying I'm in my 30's.
I am in New York , a city I don't even recognise anymore.
I will keep my list a priority- I realized I am the only one who can know what makes me happy (and I can also sabotage myself from happiness). So yes indeed your advise is priceless and I Will keep you updated. God bless you and your family.
Sending Smiles,
Sunshine

thefountain
  10/7/2018 21:38 EST

Hi Miki184. I understand what you are saying and thank you for your thoughts. My family is traditional as far as holidays go. If I didn't say it before I have met them. and some have come to america just to see me after my mom died. They are loving and want me to move to Italy so I can develop a new family dynamic with them. Yes I understand people are people but family is family. Some will be close and others not. The last time I was in Italy they asked me to cook a thanksgiving dinner and they loved it. And I will do it every year.
As far as music I still play all the old italian songs that I love now so I am not worried about what they play in Italy. I like Il Volo , Bocelli etc. I love music.
The world is changing i am not surprised that McDonalds etc opened.
All in all what I can say is after getting so many posts from who I consider my friends from this site I now can say when all else fails the there is always 'Under the Tuscan Sun'. Looking on the positive side and working on my plan.

codybrandy
  10/8/2018 07:49 EST

Good Morning, So, I was just thinking: how are your language skills? We arrived (4yrs ago/stars in eyes/etc)with only a basic grasp of italian. We could get along...fair vocab., basic grammar. We bought a car, did the Permesso bit at the Questura, got drivers' license (took almost a yr...driving italian language is not like speaking italian and the tests are in italian only) and got the health insurance. True we had a few english speaking neighbors to help. But as I was sitting in the local Dr.s office it occured to me the hardest part is chit/chatting. That is how you really get to know people and they get to know you. Even if you already have a good grasp of the language, it's the idioms and idiosyncrasies of the region that are so important. If you are proficient but need practice you might even find free groups in your area that might just want an evening of conversation..(the Italian-American Club in my area near Boston had one) We're still working on getting better (boy, post 65 I don't learn as quickly!) and I do have to push myself to just 'chat' more often. You say you're from NY? Boston may be a little gentler but here small town people are a wonder (we live in the hills near 5Terre). It seems the more we get involved with the paese the more people are interested in us. It's not Under the Tuscan Sun fantasy (remember she had not only her own $$/EE but also a partner to help her remodel that house...book not movie) but it's a pretty good life. We live quite frugally but enjoy trips to the coast, the bar in the am, quiet stroll meeting various folks also out on a gorgeous day. Weather is great, not too hot and never too cold. You get used to mediocre wifi, awful tv, no clothes dryer (I may just give in on that one) and the not being able to eat or even buy good ethnic foods we Americans are so used to. Sorry, this got a bit long. To sum up: language, do you have your codice fiscale (easy to get at consulate) and one other thing: as the time gets closer buy essentials in the US.(Rx to hold you for a while, new
eyeglasses..terrible selections here, ) If you would like some nice books to keep your enthusiasm up private message me and I'll send you a list of a few of my favs...you can probably pick up cheap on Alibris.com. Bon Di (see what I did there...dialect in this area)

foxwhite1
  10/8/2018 12:27 EST

I find the longing for variety in foodstuffs, vino and other items that are not regional or local, very depressing. Perhaps a Walmart or other mass merchant hocking goods from all over the world would be desired by some, but then, as happened in the US most of the local producers and small businesses would be out of business! In the US every town now looks the same. Nothing but franchise chains and as a result, arguably quality and regionality have suffered! Mediocrity is the norm in the US whereas in Italy there are still hundreds, if not more 'mom and pop' producers taking pride in their products. I know that is changing and in my opinion that is sad. There is hardly a city in the US that on the surface does not look alike if one were to peruse the local business. As for expat fatigue in general, its part of living, the new becoming mundane. I try to live by this quote; happiness grows in direct proportion to my acceptance, and in inverse proportion to my expectations!

glorirz
  10/8/2018 12:28 EST

codybrandy I'd love your book list too!

glorirz
  10/8/2018 12:30 EST

Foxwhite1 I love the quote! Do you know who said that? Thanks

foxwhite1
  10/8/2018 12:38 EST

Glorirz, I googled it and it is attributable to a Michael Fox, not sure who he is. I got the quote a few years ago from a greeting card I think...no matter it is spot on and I keep a copy taped to my mac, just to remind me to don't sweat the small stuff! Saluti

glorirz
  10/8/2018 12:40 EST

Grazie! foxwhite1

Sergios
  10/8/2018 12:48 EST

I made a maple pecan pie yesterday, in Palermo. It's possible to get foods that are not common to your local area. I had to go to three different stores to get what I needed and the pie came in at a cool 30 euros. But it was nice to get a different dessert than the overly sweet cream filled glops that you get in pastry shops. The Sicilians that I fed it to loved it. You aren't going to find much in the way of ethnic food but you can get most of the ingredients you need to make it yourself.

TheresaIT
  10/8/2018 16:00 EST

Hi TheFountain,

I'm a Life Coach, and I also had a lot of fear about moving to Italy. I was particularly concerned about health care, as I had been dealing with some challenges at the time. I posted questions on this forum, and spoke with a friends, who connected me with two people in Italy who were receiving health care for a serious illness and I arranged to talk with them. The people I spoke with told me they were receiving excellent care. I also learned that like in the US, the quality of care depends on who you see. As I am an Italian citizen, I was guaranteed health care under the NHS. Little by little, I gained the courage and the information I need to take the next step. I had also taken several trips to Italy before I made the move.

Many of us experience fear when making small, let alone major changes. It's okay. It's normal. If you really want to make the move, I suggest you take small steps. Maybe come for an extended visit and stay for several months. Look around. See how you feel. Check out the resources in the area you'd like to live. You can move at your own speed; and you don't have to make the move all in one step.

Small steps, with support, and over time, lead to the changes we desire to make.

Wishing you much success and comfort for your journey.

Theresa

TheresaIT
  10/8/2018 16:06 EST

Hi the fountain,

One more thing. I made the move by myself at the age of 64. (-:

Buona fortuna!

miki184
  10/8/2018 16:41 EST

Hey there, just gotta make a quick response to your post because you made me smile! Bad selection of eyeglasses, well I don't know about that but they seem to cost a fortune here, don't know what they're up to in the States, but on 'sale' LAST YEAR they were asking over a 1000 euro! Is that what you'd pay over there?
Dryers, I guess I'm old 'cause up in the Bronx and out on LI we air dried as much as possible. I guess I'm lucky that way as even though we had dryers I really don't miss them. So much better out in the air!
Foreign food, ha that too can be easily found but depends on where you live. Milan, Torino, Bologna, Rome no problem. But be honest, if you live in Pella, Iowa do you really think you're going to find a great Hungarian Restuarant??? I don't think so :-/ My wasp roommate in college had no idea what a bagel was, ha, ha, ha! So don't be so critical. Remember if you miss it you can make it (can't find the ingredients, there's internet).
Knowing the language is fundamental for having the best experience possible.
As far as doctors/medical services go again a lot depends on where you live. There are some amazing doctors here (many of whom speak excellent English) as there are also some to stay as far away from as possible! The best are generally in the north, not because Northerns are better, many are from the south, but because there is more money and a better organiziation.

thefountain
  10/8/2018 21:13 EST

Theresa I am also 64. If you don't mind at some point I may ask you additional questions as a woman in Italy.. be well.

TheresaIT
  10/9/2018 04:37 EST

Hi Sunshine,

Yes, feel free to send a PM if you have questions. I'd be happy to answer them for you.

thefountain
  10/9/2018 10:29 EST

Thank you .??

thefountain
  10/9/2018 11:52 EST

Theresa AUTO correct put in ??. Sorry. Thank you for helping

thefountain
  10/9/2018 11:56 EST

Love pecan pie. Good for you. Good food is loved world wide.

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An overview of the healthcare system in Italy - public and private hospitals, Servizio Sanitario Nazionale (SSN), getting your Tessera Sanitaria (healthcare card), Covid-19 entry requirements, vaccinations for Italy, prescription medication availability and more.

Cost of Living in ItalyCost of Living in Italy

Expats offer insight into the cost of living in Italy.

Moving to ItalyMoving to Italy Guide

Expats moving to Italy envision a romantic lifestyle in one of the most beautiful countries in the world. However, it is important to make sure that you do comprehensive research and fully understand what it will mean to move to the city, town or village you choose.

Real Estate in ItalyReal Estate in Italy

Real estate listings in popular cities and towns in Italy.

Pros Cons of Living in ItalyPros & Cons of Living in Italy

Take off your rose-colored glasses and learn what expats have to say about the biggest challenges and the greatest rewards of living in Italy.

Retiring in ItalyRetiring in Italy

Advice for people retiring in Italy.

Visa and Residency ItalyItaly Visa & Residency Guide

Expats share their experiences obtaining residency in Italy. They discuss the ins and outs of the applying for the permesso di soggiorno, recent travel issues, permanent residency in Italy and more.

10 Tips for Living in Italy10 Tips for Living in Italy

If you've recently arrived in Italy, here are 10 tips for digital nomads living in Italy.

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Allianz Care

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Allianz CareAllianz Care

Flexible solutions allow you to tailor your cover to meet your needs and budget. Use Promocode: LIFE10 and get 10% off your international health insurance for life!
Get Quote

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Help others in Italy by answering questions about the challenges and adventures of living in Italy.

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