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residency and having a car

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maradel
  3/19/2019 08:20 EST

Ciao a tutti! Well, my experience in Italy has so far been a bit difficult, not Italy's fault! Maybe some poor planning on my part plus (lots of) unexpected circumstances.

I apologize if some of this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find the information I needed. So, the poor planning part is not realizing I should have nailed down a place that would provide legal residency before I got to Italy. I didn't realize all the ramifications of not having that, and I didn't know that it was going to be difficult finding a dog friendly rental. Maybe it's not difficult if the entirety of Italy can be included, but after getting very sick within 2 days of arrival and realizing how helpless I am here, my choices of where I should live for the near future are quite a bit less than the entirety of Italy.

I've settled on Lucca although it may not work out if I can't find a place I can afford that allows dogs. Lucca has lots of friendly expats and also friendly Italians. My experience in Todi helped me understand how important "friendly" is.

I'm in a B&B in Lucca Centro for 2 months while I try to find a long term rental. I understand hopeless in terms of dog-friendly rentals. In the US I ended up buying houses because there was nothing (decent) for rent that allowed pets. I don't really want to do that here. But I do not understand how real estate works in Italy. Each realtor seems to have his/her own list of properties and they don't know anything outside of that.

So my first question is should I go into every every real estate office in Lucca and ask for help? Is it considered "bad form" if I have a stable full of realtors? I don't want to start off on the wrong foot because I don't know how things are done here. I've been told to be patient, but the clock is ticking on my short term rental, and it's amazing how 2 months can evaporate. And at the end of 2 months, it will be high season for B&Bs, and I can't afford those rates.

The other concern I have is that I have a car only until the end of June. The current lease is not renewable. Question 2: how do I buy or lease a car in Italy without legal residency? Is it possible? I thought I read somewhere on this forum that I can buy a car (without a legal residence and carta d'identita) if I have some kind of document from the comune where my citizenship is registered (Calabritto). I can't find the post now. Can someone verify that?

And what about insurance? Can I get insurance without legal residency?

Anyone know anything about long term car leases through this company: www.leaseplan.com/it-it/

Maybe I'm looking at the worst case scenario, but it could be possible for me to end up without a place to live and without transportation, not because there isn't a place, but because I don't know how things work here and I am limited in my ability to communicate. I've also reached out to the expat community in Lucca by way of FaceBook.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Advice?

HenryGiovanni
  3/19/2019 14:56 EST

Hi Maradel,
I forget all the details, but it sounds like you have citizenship already. I am surprised, however, that you have a B&B for two months. I was told that the law only allowed stays of 30 days, notwithstanding that we spent 3 months in the same B&B. Without receipts, of course, and in low season, but for a very reasonable price. Maybe that's just here in Padova.

On real estate, we visited umpteen realtors trying to buy our house, so don't worry, just do it. Go wherever your search takes you. In the end, we bought from yet-another realtor, without a buyer's agent, but using a notaio and, importantly, using my brother-in-law as the [guy who checks out the houses; in America, a buyer's inspection agent, but I forget the title here). Lacking a brother-in-law, expect to pay some bucks for his expertise. Look at my Moving to Italia post for the long thread about buying a house, probably dated around April or May of 2018. Just look for a long thread.

Do NOT buy a place with communal heating; the min/max heat is regulated by law, as are the hours. You WILL be cold in winter. Don't go there. If you are only renting (of which I know absolutely nothing, so be advised), then I suspect that the heat is communal and that's what you are stuck with. I may be wrong, so be aware of what you are getting into.

But have no fear about using multiple realtors. They seem to expect that here, and the result (a home for you) is really all that matters.

Re: the car. We needed a Residenza in order to transfer title. My wife had one, I left mine at home. Result: the car is in her name, as is the insurance. I can't say much more about that because I didn't understand the half of what went on.

On Italians, and without intending to be mean or anything, I've found that most Italians are rather more-friendly than less-friendly, but would condition that assessment on being below, generally, the E-W line of the A4 Autostrada. North of that the country was occupied by the Austrians prior to the end of WWI, and the manners are, let's just say, "different". My opinion, based on experience. But below the A4 I've found warm, friendly people everywhere (with very few exceptions).d

As for patience, I have yet to achieve the status of "a patient person", but being here has helped tremendously. Things take longer to do, here. Just a fact. Most places shut down, as I'm sure you've discovered, during what we called a "siesta" down on the Mexican border. Just how it is; get used to it or lose your mind. But, in the end, be patient, because patience will pay dividends later, if only to your own sense of being. It's kind of a reverse-psychology for Americans, who tend (at least, I tend) to expect instant results. You are no longer in Kansas, Toto. Things are done differently here. Adapt, Improvise, Overcome.

Another word on realtors: each does have their own list, and they don't always "talk" to each other. Just ask; some light is better than no light.

On a more personal note, I'm glad to hear that you are at least trying to get things done. It ain't easy moving into a new country. Some of us came here with less plans than you, but with (probably) different circumstances. I'm pretty sure I'm in the "less plans" category, at least. Keep plugging ahead, because it will get better; It only takes some doing to get through. It almost sounds like you've hit bottom, with nowhere to go but up. Take a deep breath, sit back, and look at your big picture. I know that sounds like juvenile advice, but it's advice that most people never take. Relax. Take your time to make the decisions that will benefit you. Things will work out, sometimes in spite of your own actions.

Disclaimer: I am no expert on anything.
Cheers, John.

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maradel
  3/20/2019 06:20 EST

Hi John, thanks for the advice and information! Good to know that I can get as many realtors as I can stand without offending them all! I have 2 realtors now. One keeps "forgetting" critical (negative) information about places until after I'm roped in a bit. Kind of Furba, I think.

I'm not sure how the government would know how long someone stays in these B&Bs. Why would they even care...oh never mind, it's government! I'm staying in a beautiful and very affordable apartment thanks to low season rates. I'm going to be spoiled, but it's a needed contrast to my last apartment.

Interesting information about communal heat. I was wondering how that worked. So that's probably not a good feature when heat is included in the rent in a building with several apartments. On the other hand what Italiani define as cold is T-shirt weather for me. I do have the feeling that maybe I paid for heat and hot water for everyone in the building for my Todi apartment. 250E for 6 weeks of tepid water and keeping the tiny apartment less than 65. I'm trying not to be angry.

I'll check out your previous post. I think I've read it before, but it's so full of good information that I should just save it in a file in my Italy folder.

That's interesting about the A4 line effect. I've also been told that cities have their own personalities, too. Definitely true for Todi vs Lucca. Lots of scowling faces in Todi and the Italian disapproving stare at my dogs (I had lots of Italian relatives in the US, so that one is real familiar). In Lucca, just the opposite. My dogs are mobbed by admiring people! We have literally stopped traffic as people vie for the best spot to get photos. They're celebrities! It's pretty funny.

I now have a pretty firm lead on a longer term apartment in Lucca. An american guy who owns a B&B apartment and the apartment above it is looking for someone to manage and clean the B&B apartment in exchange for a reduction in rent for the upstairs apartment. I have to go look at it and discuss some particulars, but the place is in centro storico, and I doubt I could afford to live in centro without some kind of deal. I'm certainly not averse to some manual labor. I have to try to find out what kind of lease will be acceptable for granting me legal residency. I will probably have to find someone who speaks Italian to go with me to the Ufficio Anagrafe.

Patience is not my best quality, either. I had to survive in highly competitive professions with a lot of sharp elbows, or worse. But impatience is a learned behavior, and so I should be able to unlearn it...partly. One thing that has really surprised me is how helpful the expat community has been! Most of my career experience has been with people actively trying to sabotage my success, and even survival. Asking for help doesn't usually occur to me. So when I do ask and then receive so much more help than I expected, I'm shocked!

I didn't expect this move to be easy, so I'm not disappointed yet. My anxiety is mainly for my dogs. It's my responsibility to make sure they're comfortable and cared for. Not having a stable home is hard on them. Being homeless and car-less isn't an option. I can't move around on buses and trains with 3 dogs, no matter how small and well-behaved they are.

I came to Italy not knowing where I was going to settle down. I still don't know. Lucca works for now. Maybe I'll end up staying the rest of my life! I imagined myself driving around Italy the way I drive around the US. Not happening! Not yet, anyway. 50 years of driving did not prepare me for the many things that are different here. So, I'm adjusting my plans. That's partly what this move is about: recalibrating myself in unknown ways.

By the way, I never trust "experts"!
Thanks again for all the helpful information!

MaryAnne

Ugo
  3/20/2019 16:05 EST

Hi maradel ,

many replyes ,about living in Italy , here

http://www.lifeinitaly.it/Inglese/italyresidenceguide.htm

have a good Italy

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