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Choosing a Landing Spot

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LaPatria
  1/30/2020 12:07 EST

First, I just want to thank everyone who works supporting this site and those who have used their own experiences to help others make this exciting but, often overwhelming, transition less anxiety provoking.
I've been fortunate to survive the 12 year jure sanguinis process through the New York consulate. My wife and I are both passport holding Italian citizens and intend on spending a good part of our future years in Italy.
The issue for me can be summed up in one word: "Where." I don't expect anyone to make a decision for us but, what I really would love to know is, based on your experiences, what turned out to be the most significant factor in your choice?
I've traveled from north to south (mostly through the center and west coast cities) and have enjoyed them all. I love the feeling I get down south and the weather but I seem more comfortable up north where services appear to just work better.
I guess I'm really just trying to prioritize the many factors that go into the selection process. Some the feel so important now, might turn out to be less so upon arrival and visa versa. Any all all opinions are appreciated. Thanks to all.

MrsVannelli
  1/30/2020 12:27 EST

We chose Umbria. We have travelled to many parts of the country for the past 25 years on our teacher summer breaks. We decided to buy our place outside of Todi becasue the location is scenic, it's close to a town (and Todi is a wonderful town that isn't overrun by tourists), there is plenty to see and do within an hour's drive, it's only 1.5hrs drive to Rome if we need access to larger shopping, it's only 1.5hrs to either coast for beach days, it was more affordable than other areas we looked at, and it's one of the ancestral comunes of my husband's great grandparents. We work in San Francisco and live just minutes south of the City. We know what coastal living can do to your house (fog and rust) so don't want to deal with that in Italy. We love Maratea, but it's much farther south and remote, so we'll enjoy vacations there. We love Rome, but need to escape the daily living of crowds of people and traffic (so over it!). We'll be 'in the countryside' but close enough should we miss city life and all the services it provides.

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Sergios
  1/30/2020 12:42 EST

All areas of Italy have very positive aspects and based on that there isn't any place in Italy that should not be considered. However the other side of the coin are the negatives. The south is hot in summer. Not the day or two a week but six weeks of everyday hot. The south is also crumbling due to lack of government support and high unemployment. Driving in the south, especially in cities like Palermo, is death defying.
Some of those factors are also present in the north but not to the same degree. Prices are also higher up north, but not too bad.
People are uniformly friendly everywhere.
I suggest doing what my wife and I have done. That is to live a year here another there. It's the best way to get to know a place and if it fits in with you. Also, keep in mind, since you have an EU passport, you are not restricted to living in Italy alone. You are free to live anywhere in the EU.

Sergios
  1/30/2020 13:01 EST

All areas of Italy have very positive aspects and based on that there isn't any place in Italy that should not be considered. However the other side of the coin are the negatives. The south is hot in summer. Not the day or two a week but six weeks of everyday hot. The south is also crumbling due to lack of government support and high unemployment. Driving in the south, especially in cities like Palermo, is death defying.
Some of those factors are also present in the north but not to the same degree. Prices are also higher up north, but not too bad.
People are uniformly friendly everywhere.
I suggest doing what my wife and I have done. That is to live a year here another there. It's the best way to get to know a place and if it fits in with you. Also, keep in mind, since you have an EU passport, you are not restricted to living in Italy alone. You are free to live anywhere in the EU.

Planningforit
  1/30/2020 15:36 EST

Consider what is important based on your way of life. Do you intend to use public transportation (train and bus)? Do you have medical concerns as you get older that having a hospital convenient to you is important? Do you want all four seasons? Do you want a diverse community (young, old, multi-cultural)? Do you want to be in a Centro Storico with modern amenties just around the corner? Beach or mountains? All of these should be considered when deciding where. We are also choosing Umbria to be centrally located and use as a hub as we will not be residents.

Shtinky
  1/30/2020 16:11 EST

I too am an Umbria resident and I third the suggestions. It is a beautiful area, traditional, tranquil, friendly people, the main north south rail lines run through it. 1.5 hours to Rome and 2 from Florence, It is the “cheap” Tuscany. Very similar but with less tourists and less expensive. Decent health facilities. If you are retiring, health care should be up on your list. The south has a less robust health network.

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LaPatria
  1/31/2020 16:31 EST

Thanks to all who replied. I know this is a very personal decision but, it's always good to hear from people with experience. My wife and I have been toying with the idea of renting first and maybe that's the best first step. Sergios, you've help me make up my mind with your reply. Also, confirmed was my desire to be centrally located. It was great to hear from the Umbrian denizens. I'd like to start my search there. We're definitely a centro storico couple who are big users of public transportation (probably the influence of being born and raised in NYC). In any case, it feels great to have a starting point for our new adventure. Thanks again.

Shtinky
  2/1/2020 03:34 EST

LaPatria,
I hope it’s OK to put a link to my blog here.! We moved to Umbria nearly six years ago and chronicled our whole adventure. (It is long!) there is also a page in the top navigation with all the legal, tax, technical tips we learned. Just in case you’d be interested. Good luck on your adventure!
NancyGoesToItaly.com

LaPatria
  2/1/2020 09:32 EST

Shtinky, not only is it okay but, I’m looking forward to reading it, for both pleasure and information. I’m sure I’ll learn a lot. Thanks.

Shtinky
  2/1/2020 10:01 EST

Thanks! It’s not a commercial site at all. Just for myself and friends and anyone interested to move here. I’m happy you will read it :-)

Stellalebret
  2/1/2020 15:32 EST

I have travelled around Puglia a fair bit I did indeed find the north of Puglia had great infrastructure more amenities and little bit more upmaket, with more diverse shops and elelgance and very very clean.

However south Puglia has "magic" that's the only way I can describe it. The trains are chronic, the buses are poor, the're nil shops apart from Lecce and there's tons of rubbish and dog poop. BUT, the summers are to die for, people and kids in flip flops riding their vespas to the beach, the palm trees, the blue skies even in December the fruit and veg overflowing. The people are gorgeous. The life is slow and makes your heart tick in a nice rythm.

It's poor but the people manage and they do it in style with a passion for their life.

A 2pm the local town I'm in looks abandoned, it's a far cry from my home town in the UK with bustling streets.

If you have a bit of money you can carve out a little paradise in south puglia and never look back.

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miki184
  2/2/2020 15:48 EST

Hi LaPatria,

As an ex- New Yorker I totally understand the love and desire for public transportation. I am considering returning to the States and high on my list is good public transportation which in a country of car lovers is not so easy to find! That said I certainly agree with serigo about giving different places a try here and there but would like to put Bologna in the running. Having lived here for somewhere close to 30 years, I know it pretty well. If you've been here you may have an idea of what it does and doesn't offer. On the positive side, it is a university town with graduates from all parts of Italy who decided to stay so you will find that the average 'Bolognese' is well educated and aware of the world around them. Partly due to the university but also to the curious well educated residents the city is rich with wonderful cultural activities which are often free to the public. From the 28th December to January 5th there was a dance festival all around town. Last weekend as a bonus to artefiera (fair of modern art) there were close to 100 art exhibitions around town in museums, galleries, and shops all free of charge. Saturday it was possible to visit the various locations until midnight. Public transportation work without too many problems (I took the night bus at 2.20 am last night which left right in front of my house). And of course we have a university hospital as well as an orthopedic hospital which is actually world famous (I met a young American medical student from California who actually came to Bologna to do a two week study period at the hospital). Of course we have the hills right outside the city, mountains and beaches from an hour or two or three away. An international airport 20 minutes from the city center and the best place to reach almost all the rest of Italy (Bologna is a hub). And last but not least a growing international community. It's a medium size city so there's a bit of everything. ?? Good luck with your choice!

SottoVoce
  2/4/2020 07:17 EST

A few words about the benefits and advantages of living in Liguria: We bought our apartment near Lerici in January 2018 and have absolutely no regrets (despite the Italian bureaucracy!!). We are fortunate to have gorgeous ever-changing views over the Gulf of Poets (we are located in Solaro a small village above San Terenzo with a short walk down to the sea). San Terenzo has a beautiful (Blue Flag) sandy beach (free) together with a wide variety of restaurants, shops and (arguably) the best ice-cream shop in Italy! San Terenzo is also a site of historic interest, with an ancient castle and the last home of the English Romantic poet Percy Bysshe Shelley -other famous poets and writers followed, including: Byron, D. H. Lawrence, Virginia Woolf etc.
A 20 minute walk around the bay brings you to Lerici with its excellent Saturday morning market, many restaurants, castle, marina and ferry to the stunningly beautiful Cinque Terre.
From Lerici & San Terenzo there are excellent (and frequent) bus services to/from La Spezia and Sarzanna (both with mainline railway stations to the rest of Italy). Pisa Airport is a 35 to 40 minute drive away (mostly on the E80 Autostrada/Motorway, with low cost flights to most of Europe). I'm not sure why Liguria is so overlooked by potential property buyers! It is incredibly well connected in terms of transport links and has some wonderfully unspoilt towns and villages, with fabulous local food & wines. The climate is is temperate & much less extreme than some other parts of Italy.

miki184
  2/4/2020 09:01 EST

Hello Sottovoce,

I agree Liguria is really wonderful and I love the food, but from what Italians tell me (I personally don't know as I have never looked into it) the reason it is 'overlooked' is that the houses there are terribily expensive. Is that wrong? I'm just curious as I think it probably would be a nice place to live if you're looking for a quite place outside of a city.

codybrandy
  2/4/2020 12:16 EST

Thank you! We bought in Liguria 11 yrs ago and though we have traveled all of Italy this is the best of the best. We are in a beautiful tiny hill town 20 min. inland from the 5 Terre. True, the Italian bureaucracy is simply amazing in it's inability to perform but other than that all is well. Our experiences with the health system and emergency services were outstanding. We love your area of Lerici as well and try to get down there 4+ times a year for an outing. Now, let's all band together and get some good Thai/Indian/Chinese restaurants and life will be complete. And yes, having come from Boston: the weather here couldn't be better.

SottoVoce
  2/4/2020 12:18 EST

Yes, I think it is possibly a bit more expensive than some other areas. Lerici/Gulf of Poets very popular with Italians from Parma, Bologna & Milan looking for second homes. There is also a premium for sea views, But still lots of bargains to be had! Definitely worth a look if you are house hunting in Italy.

codybrandy
  2/5/2020 03:43 EST

Hello Miki, I would always say: You get what you pay for. Our good-sized 2bd flat would be 3x+ the price on the coast than 20 minutes into the hills above the coast. Yes, you can pick up a very cheap place way down south but...how are the services, hospitals, earthquake possibilities, transportation to/from the nearest airports on and on and on? We love Liguria and are very pleased to be here...we can be in the actual mountains in no time for hiking etc and we can be in 5Terre in no time at all. Roads are very good with quick access to autostrada, airports are 1 hour north and 1 hour south (Pisa), hospitals and emergency service is excellent and the weather is perfect...not too hot/too cold. Your very best bet is to travel around, pick a landing you think you might like and rent for a period of time. That way you get to know a few people and the area. Good Luck. P.S. start for fun looking at property websites: Gate-away.com and https://www.immobiliare.it/vendita-case/carro/?criterio=rilevanza

miki184
  2/6/2020 09:10 EST

Thanks Cody for the info. I've been to the area a few times (mostly for hiking) and as said before think it's amazing. So beautiful. Of course I've never lived there so don't know how it is full time so it's nice to hear from someone who lives there. As far as the expense, all I can say is that many Italians have told me it would be a great place to retire to but that it's too expensive to buy. And again I just took them for their word.
Naturally I also think south Italy is incredible for the same reasons but there again I would have second thoughts about retiring there - remember retired people are usually older and in need at some point of good consistent medical care. Living in the north I think the health system here works very well (I worked at a major teaching hospital) and that is most likely in part due to the fact that they have more money. I don't want to criticize the doctors, just the system.
Who knows, maybe after reading your review of Liguria as well as knowing a little bit about it, I might end up there in my old age ;-)

thefountain
  2/6/2020 13:27 EST

Hi LaPatria and the rest of the group.

Glad to hear someone is from the NYC area. I have been struggling with making the move. My cousins live outside of Naples and the area is way to remote. So I too am looking to see the best area to suit a New York.

As others have said health care is important -- very important to me since i am a cancer survivor.

I don' have the means to stay a year so I was wondering if anyone have any suggestions if I visited and what amount of time would be good?

All suggestions are appreciated.

thefountain
  2/6/2020 13:30 EST

Hi Codybrandy,

Just curious --what makes the hospitals and emergency services excellent. I have heard such horror stories that I don't know what to think.

My only comparison is with hospitals in New York City.

Thank you.

thefountain
  2/6/2020 13:40 EST

Hi Sottovoce,

How are the hospitals, heathcare and emergency services?

Thank you.

codybrandy
  2/6/2020 13:50 EST

Hello Fountain, I'm from Boston so you can imagine I had high expectations. I wont bore you getting onto the health care system...become a resident, pay a % of a weird made up formula...we pay 1500/yr Euro for the both not each of us......everything is paid for by the system...0 Dr. bills, 0 hospital bills etc. all Rx cost 7E no matter what it is. Anyway, my husband had a fall in the kitchen...lots of blood, the town Dr. was there in 10min. and he then called the ambulance to take him to the emergency room (we also have a helicopter in town for the bigger stuff). He was seen right away, tons of tests, a few stiches, some waiting around a very clean well maintained ER...out we went a few hours later. No extra cost. This year he had hernia surgery. Go to the town Dr. for a referral to a specialist, See the specialist at his hospital in Chiavari...a big handsome spotless place. 2-3 weeks later we meet with him for the surgery in his other hospital (beautiful, brand new) in Rapallo All extremely efficient and professional and spotless. We (Bostonians mind you) are impressed and thankful. No extra charges. The town medivac copter is used for dire emergencies. We in Liguria are very fortunate as far as healthcare goes. There are also private doctors which are a fraction of the cost of US doctors.

thefountain
  2/6/2020 13:58 EST

Hi Codybrandy,

Wow I'm impressed. Did you have to bring your own sheets like in southern Italy?

Do the staff and doctors speak english or do you need an interpreter?

Thank you so much.

codybrandy
  2/6/2020 14:04 EST

Hi again, The hospital provided everything...most of the staff spoke only Italian but the Dr. and I got along with 1/2 italian-1/2 english. They were very calm and understanding and knew we are learning and trying our best to fit in. They were also very curious about the Americans. I have heard the horror stories of hospitals in the south and am just too old to put up with that...I'm sure they can't all be bad but it is important to look into the healthcare in the region where you will settle. We are c. 20min inland from the 5Terre.

thefountain
  2/6/2020 16:47 EST

Thank you so much . I also am too old to put up with it. This really gave me confidence in the potential move.

Good health and luck for your future.

Shtinky
  2/6/2020 16:57 EST

Hi Fountain! Ive just had knee replacement surgery here in Perugia Umbria. Couldn’t have asked for a better experience. My operation was on a Friday and on Monday I started the (included) 14 day rehab regimen. All necessities were provided, my roommate was a lovely 80 yo lady from Bari Puglia. Of course, as Italian families do, 3 members of her family were with her. She also had a knee replacement. I asked why she was there all the way from Bari (600 km away) and her son told me her doctor set her up. The doctor said she wouldn’t get the care she needed in Puglia. Just a first person account on the rumored deficiencies of the health care in the south. If you’re a cancer survivor stay north of Rome. My advice. As an aside, hospital stays will vary all over. The big university hospital I stayed in for my first surgery was completely different from the second hospital. First one expected family members to stay and do the basic care of their family member. My roommates husband spent every night in a chaise longue chair in our room, cozy!

miki184
  2/7/2020 05:48 EST

Hi! Read my suggestions about Bologna. You can also rest assure that the health care is excellent. I know first hand as a patient - I had a serious accident years ago and was recovered in 3 different hospitals and as an employee - I worked in the oncology department. I should probably mention you can reach all of them with a city bus ride, very NY style. ?? Good luck with your decision.

miki184
  2/7/2020 05:58 EST

Sorry about the question marks - it was a winky face which obviously didn't translate. I just read the other suggestions and I should probably clarify what I meant by the bus. I was referring to check up visits and non emergency visits (lots of patients have exams or visits with the doctors on a regular basis). I don't want you to get the impression I was speaking about emergencies!

SottoVoce
  2/7/2020 06:14 EST

Fortunately, neither my wife or I have had to use the local health services. However, we lent our apartment to friends last July -their 10 year old daughter slipped in the San Terenzo beach shower and hit her head. She was concussed -the life guard called an ambulance which arrived within less than 5 mins. -she was taken to A&E at La Spezia hospital. She was seen immediately by a doctor and and was immediately transferred by ambulance to a specialist neurological unit in Genoa. She was discharged after a couple of days and has subsequently made a full recovery. Our friends were full of praise for the standard of medical care their daughter received -there was no charge since they were covered by the EU Health Insurance Scheme -not sure what will happen after Jan 2021 when Brexit fully kicks-in!!!

whidden39
  2/7/2020 09:27 EST

Don’t want to beat a dead horse regarding health care in the south; but my extensive experience with some serious challenges were met with expert care at various hospitals. I say that after nearly a lifetime living in Boston where hospitals are regarded as some of the best worldwide. I’ve shared my experiences in detail. It’s all there in the archives. In a way I hesitate to correct the record because life is good here in Puglia. We really don’t need throngs of tourists or expats. There is a website I love called Non Venite in Puglia (Don’t Come to Puglia), which tongue-in-cheek name is juxtaposed with the most incredibly gorgeous and enticing photography of this lovely, often misunderstood , region. I am well acquainted with many regions of Italy. I have enjoyed all as a traveler. But Puglia stole my heart and I couldn’t imagine living anywhere else at this point in my life. To each his/her own, I guess.

LaPatria
  2/11/2020 10:43 EST

Thanks to all who have replied. Your comments helped me solidify my thinking in how to approach a move to Italy. I was great to read the passionate responses of the Umbrian, Ligurian and Pulglese posters who obviously feel they made the right choices for themselves. On a personal note, I do feel spending some extended time in different locations will be the answer to my uncertainty of where to settle down. I also intend to look into some the suggestions that were made in this thread. All in all, I got what I was looking for, great informed opinions from people with experience. Grazie mille a tutti.

1bzmom
  3/7/2020 12:22 EST

CodyBrandy-

Thank you for all the information! We are in the middle of planning a move and healthcare being top of mind. Your post said you pay 1500 euros for healthcare..is that amount per month? We will be a citizens but will need a fill in until everything is registered for..Thanks!

codybrandy
  3/7/2020 15:10 EST

Dear IbzMom, There is a formula for how much one needs to pay for Health Ins. once you are a resident and have the Permesso di Soggiorno. When you have these then you go to the local Dr. to find out where to apply for the Carta Sanitaria (Health Ins Card)...In our area of LaSpezia, Liguria it is next to a large Hospital in Chiavari. We are a retired fixed income couple and our formula is calculated on income. It works out to just about E1500/year for the both of us (not each) Once on the coverage all doctor visits are free, my husband's ride to the emergency room by ambulance: free, his surgery: free. All prescriptions are 7E a piece. So far we are very pleased. I do understand that not all areas of Italy have the same quality of care...something to look into before picking a home. If you have full citizenship I believe there is different criteria. Also, with the Covid going around I have heard that the amount of time to acquire the Permesso di Soggiorno (PdiS) is taking far longer and maybe as much as 6 months +/-.
Your US consulate in the states should have all the info you will need to apply for your first visa (1yr). Then once you arrive you will immediately start work on the PdiS. Your first visa will require you to have international health insurance for 1yr. Good Luck

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