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From Canada to Panama

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Julsfem
  6/20/2019 09:07 EST

Hello group!
I am hoping to seek fellow Canadians that moved to Panama, to get some advise on the procedure, what to do, how to make the move, what to do in Canada before the move. It would be great to get input on some issues like our ohip.
We are husband and wife, 52/60
Not retirement age in Canada, but want to retire early. Thinking about moving to Alto bouquet, and are planning on coming out for about a month to see if we will love it as much as some on this site:)
Would like to be somewhere not too far from the beach, but close enough to hospitals, hoping to keep the cost of living from $2000- $2500 usd.
Will need to rent a 2 bd house, will need to buy a used car, will need internet, car insurance, and medical insurance, is our budget realistic?
Thank you everyone who reads and responds, stay safe! Hope to meet you soon:)

Carolannf
  6/20/2019 09:22 EST

Check out procedures with POLS, they offer great services. They gave us some great information, we will be working with them when we make our move to Panama.
We also live in Canada and will be visiting Panama in September

Kovalenko & Vera Attorneys at Law in PanamaKovalenko & Vera Attorneys at Law in Panama
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Kovalenko & Vera is a Panamanian law firm that specializes in immigration law, corporate law, real estate law, banking, contract negotiation, taxes and flag registry. With more than 20 years of professional practice, Kovalenko & Vera builds lasting relationships with our clients to ensure your interests are safeguarded.

Click connect to have our partner contact you via e-mail and/or phone.

Kovalenko & Vera Attorneys at Law in PanamaKovalenko & Vera Attorneys at Law in Panama

Kovalenko & Vera is a Panamanian law firm that specializes in immigration law, corporate law, real estate law, banking, contract negotiation, taxes and flag registry. With more than 20 years of professional practice, Kovalenko & Vera builds lasting relationships with our clients to ensure your interests are safeguarded.
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Julsfem
  6/20/2019 09:28 EST

Hi Carolann, I googled POLS, didn’t get any relevant info, what is POLS and how do I search?
Thank you

Julsfem
  6/20/2019 09:28 EST

Hi Carolann, I googled POLS, didn’t get any relevant info, what is POLS and how do I search?
Thank you

panamajames
  6/20/2019 10:18 EST

POLS do a lot of advertising for their legal services in Panama but living here in various parts of Panama off and on since 2004, I have rarely met truly satisfied clients of theirs. Mostly I hear complaints. They are still around so that is a good thing but there are much better legal firms out there that specialize in immigration.

Julsfem
  6/20/2019 11:05 EST

Thank you Panamajames, can you recommend someone?
Would I need to contact them after my move or prior?

Kovalenko & Vera Attorneys at Law in PanamaKovalenko & Vera Attorneys at Law in Panama
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Kovalenko & Vera is a Panamanian law firm that specializes in immigration law, corporate law, real estate law, banking, contract negotiation, taxes and flag registry. With more than 20 years of professional practice, Kovalenko & Vera builds lasting relationships with our clients to ensure your interests are safeguarded.

Click connect to have our partner contact you via e-mail and/or phone.

Kovalenko & Vera Attorneys at Law in PanamaKovalenko & Vera Attorneys at Law in Panama

Kovalenko & Vera is a Panamanian law firm that specializes in immigration law, corporate law, real estate law, banking, contract negotiation, taxes and flag registry. With more than 20 years of professional practice, Kovalenko & Vera builds lasting relationships with our clients to ensure your interests are safeguarded.
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Click connect to have our partner contact you via e-mail and/or phone.

Carolannf
  6/20/2019 11:05 EST

Panama Offshore Legal Services
Email [email protected]
Awesome people, They are on YouTube as well
Carol

Carolannf
  6/20/2019 11:19 EST

Hi again panamajames,
I'm curioùs who might be better?
Always searching for good info
Carol

Carolannf
  6/20/2019 11:21 EST

Julsfem
Where in Canada do you live? Curious
I'm in Ontario

Julsfem
  6/20/2019 11:33 EST

Hi Carol, I am in Bradford Ontario, used to live in maple/Vaughan
Julia

Carolannf
  6/20/2019 11:40 EST

I'm close to Orangeville
If you want to pm me I can forward the email I received from POLS if you like. panamajames is awesome, talked to him a few times.

Kovalenko & Vera Attorneys at Law in PanamaKovalenko & Vera Attorneys at Law in Panama
Connect

Kovalenko & Vera is a Panamanian law firm that specializes in immigration law, corporate law, real estate law, banking, contract negotiation, taxes and flag registry. With more than 20 years of professional practice, Kovalenko & Vera builds lasting relationships with our clients to ensure your interests are safeguarded.

Click connect to have our partner contact you via e-mail and/or phone.

Kovalenko & Vera Attorneys at Law in PanamaKovalenko & Vera Attorneys at Law in Panama

Kovalenko & Vera is a Panamanian law firm that specializes in immigration law, corporate law, real estate law, banking, contract negotiation, taxes and flag registry. With more than 20 years of professional practice, Kovalenko & Vera builds lasting relationships with our clients to ensure your interests are safeguarded.
Connect

Click connect to have our partner contact you via e-mail and/or phone.

panamajames
  6/20/2019 15:09 EST

Thanks Carolannf. I don't like to promote lawyers or firms on public forums so we can chat by email at [email protected]
The biggest complaints that I receive about cheaper priced or budget legal firms is that they quote a price, you pay it, and then they nickel and dime you with a price for every little thing in the future. We can talk about that. My Ontario places were Toronto, Scarborough, Lindsay, Barrie, St. Catherines, Hamilton, Sudbury and Welland/Port Colborne, my first adventures with a canal system and bridges that lifted to halt traffic for a half hour or so. And how about those trains loaded with nickel that would run through downtown Sudbury and stall traffic for a half hour or more. Fun times in Ontario.

ranadelnorte
  6/20/2019 15:55 EST

@Julsfem
Welcome to the forum! You have some exciting plans. Here is some feedback from a fellow Canadian from Montreal who immigrated to Panama City with a pensionado visa in late 2013.
First, what to do in Canada:
-You’ll have to decide what type of immigration visa you’ll be applying for, as you’re not eligible for pensionado visas. A lawyer will help guide you.
-Hire an immigration lawyer. Personally, I’ve never heard POLS called “awesome.” Please search the forum for names of reliable, competent lawyers. You should contact 2-3 to see who you think you can work with. The first consultation will be free.
-You’ll gather the required paperwork, get notarization and apostille in Canada, and also get notarization from the Panama embassy in Ottawa. This is not rocket science, but is detailed. It took us 2 months to complete the documentation process.
-Shut down your life in Canada - everything from closing businesses, your home, your community activities, etc. We did the whole process in 13 months, which was INSANE. For an international, cross-cultural move, 16-18 months would have been better.
-Obtain credible, competent advice on what it takes to be a non-resident of Canada for tax purposes. Not all accountants and financial advisors have expertise in this area. Here are some considerations: CRA has 50+ criteria that must be met, you’ll have to do a deemed disposition of your investments and property, you’ll no longer be able to contribute to your TFSA and RRSP accounts, you’ll no longer be eligible for Canadian universal health care, to name just a few issues.
-In the past, some Canadians maintained an address in Canada so as not to lose health care benefits. However Canada will no longer allow this practice. See:
https://www.expatexchange.com/expatguide/270/3436415/Panama/Expats-Living-in-Panama/Information-for-Canadians
Therefore, you must sever ties with Canada if you become a resident elsewhere.

Budget
-Your budget of $2000/month for a couple will get you a VERY modest lifestyle in the countryside. IMO, owning and operating a vehicle, and purchasing health insurance will not be possible on this amount. Living on the higher figure of $2500 would be possible, but would leave little budget for travel and having fun, which you might want to do given your relatively young ages. Panama is becoming quite expensive, and you’ll have to factor in future exchange rate risks with the USD.

Good luck!

Julsfem
  6/20/2019 18:32 EST

Ranadelnotre, thank you for such an extensive reply, it was very helpful, not to mention how much time it took out of your schedule, I really appreciate it!
I am so torn between what people are saying, I keep seeing cost of living ranging from $1600 to $2500, and makes me wonder how the middle income family in Panama can afford this, or is this the gringo pricing? Also, if we are renting a 2 bd house, in say alto bouquet, what would or could we expect rent to be?
I don’t really want to sever all ties with Canada, as for a while, we will continue our business that can operate with out our presence, and will continue to pay taxes.
My husband is 60, so technically that is the early retirement age, could we not qualify for retirement visa in Panama?
Sorry to throw all these questions, seems every time we take a step forward, we go right back 3:(.
Hope you are all doing well! Keep safe! Enjoy
Julia

Carolannf
  6/20/2019 19:05 EST

panamajames is my best bet, I don't feel he's trying to get anything out of anyone, I really trust him, don't shoot me down, I'm learning and getting info, how would I know which lawyer to trust?

panamajames
  6/20/2019 22:14 EST

I would just like to mention Julia that randlenorte lives in Panama City so has very little knowledge of actual costs in Alto Boquete which is a much cheaper place to live than PC. This is one of the food growing centers of Panama and most of our neighbours grow their food in greenhouses and trade with each other. The food bill is incredibly cheap in Boquete. If you want to shop at the fancy food stores and malls and purchase North American imports, that will cost you more. I come home from work every day with a bag of gifted tomatoes or potatoes or onions or lemons ,& ,limes or bananas. Today I got a bag full of grapefruit from a neighbours tree. Mangos are falling down all around us. I put some pineapple together with mango the other day in a fruit salad and it was an amazing combination. House rentals are much cheaper in Alto Boquete than Panama City. Really no comparison. Utilities are cheaper because of no heating or air conditioning required. So write me an email Julia if you need some quotes on actual living costs in Alto Boquete. [email protected]

PanamaJackie
  6/20/2019 22:17 EST

HI Julia

You can get a nice 2 bedroom house in Alto Boquete for $600 a month or $1600 a month. That's why the prices are all over the place on what your budget should be.

Some people would love the $600 a month house and some people need the $1600 a month house.

I wrote this article in 2017 about my cost of living in Boquete - you can see that my budget is much less than $2,000 a month

https://panamarelocationtours.com/category/living-in-panama/cost-of-living-in-panama-living-in-panama

My costs have not gone up since I wrote this article.

You and your husband can only get the retirement Visa (Pensionado Visa) if you can prove a lifetime income (pension) of $1250 for you both. Otherwise, you'll need to get the Friendly Nations Visa.

cesar111
  6/20/2019 22:50 EST

My wife and I are also thinking of maybe retiring in Panama (I am now retired and my wife will soon be retired in another year or so). Wondering who POLS is?

Thank You
John

cesar111
  6/20/2019 22:52 EST

Sorry about my question just saw the rest of the thread. Apologies!

volcan357
  6/20/2019 22:55 EST

Any kind of cost of living figures you see in English about any country in Latin America is based on opinions of expats. Obviously local people live on less. A lot less.

ranadelnorte
  6/21/2019 02:52 EST

@Panamajames
LOL you crack me up! The $2000/month budget for a couple living in Boquete are YOUR OWN figures, repeated on the forum on several occasions.

Best advice is to come to Panama with your home budget in hand to see how much you’d spend for the same food items, housing, medical care, utilities, telecommunications, etc.

Budgets are so personal that I can’t tell anybody how much they’d spend for their main expenses - food and housing. Everyone has different tastes and habits.

Carolannf
  6/21/2019 07:16 EST

I have intentions of going to Gorgona, it's suitable for us and 10 minutes away from all the amenities in Coronado. Ocean front living is what I have searching for along with shops close by. If the ocean front was in Boquete, that's where I would be.

SunsetSteve
  6/21/2019 07:34 EST

Forget about getting consistent and accurate answers to these types of questions. Just book a 2 week visit to Boquete in a nice place with a kitchen, rent a car, and explore the surrounding areas, the beachfront areas, the expensive and the inexpensive restaurants, the grocery shopping; experience the unbearable torrid temperatures of the beaches, the delightful climate and annoying winds of Boquete. Check out what kind of accomms you get for $600 vs $1600 (remember to bring your USD calculator!)

Once you have decided that Panama is for you (rather than the less costly and beautiful Colombia) there are several highly recommended lawyers to help you with the visa process.

Carolannf
  6/21/2019 07:47 EST

Hi PanamaJackie
So we are going with the friendly nations visa, do we not have to prove a monthly income of 1250?
Carol

lindapanama
  6/21/2019 08:58 EST

We have two places on Malibu Beach Gorgona. a one bedroom Townhouse and a 4 bedroom house right on the beach if interested.

jr555
  6/21/2019 09:38 EST

I would say that in Alto Boquete you are looking at $1000/mth for food (not restaurants), household miscellaneous, keeping a car on the road, electric, cable and internet then on top of that add rent, entertainment and health costs.
So much of your costs are down to your choice of lifestyle, but Alto Boquete cost of living is less than PC.

Carolannf
  6/21/2019 10:43 EST

I was speaking to a man named Ed, he also has a townhouse and a house. Are you the same people?
Carol

JaimeC
  6/21/2019 11:08 EST

First off it is spelled "Boquete" this will help you googling (where you will find Boquete means blowjob in Brazil), but mountain gap in Spanish. Nothing to do with flowers.

Watch out for rampant confirmation bias. Residency is relatively expensive and problematic, because of the lawyer requirement, unlike all neighboring countries and NA. If you are a dependent on the other persons pensionado, and they die or become divorced you will lose your residency (it happens).

panamajames
  6/21/2019 11:19 EST

With a Friendly Nations Visa, you do not have to prove income. Just have $5000 US available to put in a bank account that your lawyer will set up for you. You will also need a Corporation and other legal costs.

The $1250 a month is for a couple applying for a Pensionado Visa and the $1250 has to be a lifetime pension such as OAS and/or CPP. When I arrived here in 2004, it was $600 for a couple that we had to prove. It can also come from a Private Lifetime Pension. The Friendly Nations Visa is much more expensive in the long run, with Corporation costs every year, compared to the Pensionado Visa which is a one time cost, but if you don't qualify, then a Friendly Nations Visa is your best option. However I would come and stay here for 6 months first. Most expats don't last a year here before things at home cause them to return. It's a nice thought about living in paradise in your retirement until the reality sets in. Many people have arrived and gotten their Pensionado or Friendly Nations Visa, and then only stayed for 6 months and decided that Panama was not for them. That is quite a waste of dollars in my opinion. Rent first, at the beach or in the mountains, or both, and then decide if Panama is in your future. Panama is not for everyone.

PedasiPundit
  6/21/2019 11:57 EST

Absolutely great advice! Rent first, try more than one location before you decide. You just might find that your choice from afar is not for you. Another thing to do is to take a guided tour. Check out: https://www.retireinpanamatours.com/about
Oscad & Rod know Panama and their tour will show you the "Real Panama"!
Also see what we experienced at: www.ourthirdlifepedasi.com. No, we are not Canadian, but we live in Pedasi where over 60% of the expats are Canadian.

panamajames
  6/21/2019 13:37 EST

Pedasi is truly a great beach community to consider. Pedals itself is not on the ocean but rather a small town not far from the ocean. We were there one year for an annual parade through town. One float with the waving Queen on it and a bunch of students behind beating on drums. It was so cute as it wheeled around the entire town a number of times. We swore to come back and enjoy that event every year. Lots of hostels to stay at in town, and lots of close by beach communities to enjoy. We used to manage some properties in Limon and nearby areas. I love the mountain cool air living but I love the beach areas for mini holidays and Pedasi is a favourite spot. Good shopping and a hospital in nearby Las Tablas and the roads are very good these days as Pedasi is gearing up as a tourist destination of major design.

Carolannf
  6/21/2019 13:37 EST

PedasiPundit, thank you for your advice, Pedasi is on our list for checking things out
Carol

volcan357
  6/21/2019 18:22 EST

Talking about cost of living one good method of comparing different countries is PriceSmart. There are several PriceSmarts in Panama, Dominican Republic and Colombia plus other countries as well. Since PriceSmart tends to carry the exact same items in every country you can make some very accurate comparisons. These comparisons let you determine the differences in duty and taxes between the different countries. I have notices that in some countries with a lower cost of living than Panama they must charge more taxes and duty than Panama because the same items in PriceSmart are more expensive. Such comparisons indicate to me that Panama charges less duty on imported items than most of the other countries in Latin America. Of course I haven't checked everywhere.

doustoi
  6/22/2019 09:23 EST

The road into Pedasi is very good, you're right. The town itself is pretty small and rustic, but there are a couple of good places to eat. And you can hear live music (gringos) at Smiley's.

PedasiPundit
  6/22/2019 09:51 EST

Pedasi may be small geographically but it is the most cohesive communtity in Panama. There are 3 beustiful beaches within 5 minutes of downtown and 30 more with in 30 minutes. There are a plethora of fine restaurants at resonable prices from a $2.50 Breakfast at Mama FeFa's to overnignt smoked BBQ at Smiley's to the best French Bakery in Panama. Isla Iguana for snorkeling, designated as the Tuna Coast for the excellent fishing and Whale Watching from the shore! Come for the fun, stay for The People!

Carolannf
  6/22/2019 11:24 EST

Sounds amazing, close to pharmacies, medical care and shopping? I'm on heart meds

PanamaJackie
  6/22/2019 11:48 EST

Lawyers in Panama can charge what ever they can get away with.

I've found that POLS is one of the most expensive immigration lawyers in Panama.

Here's an example:

The lawyers I work with charge $3000 to get a Friendly Nations Visa, that includes the Visa, government fees and a corporation)

A guy I know went to POLS to get a Friendly Nations Visa. He made the mistake of wearing a fancy watch, designer shoes and clothes. So POLS charged him $15,000 to get a Friendly Nations Visa. He did not know any better and paid that ridiculous price.

PanamaJackie
  6/22/2019 11:51 EST

Carol

With a Friendly Nations Visa, you do not need to prove any monthly income or even annual income.

You will need to deposit $5,000 in a Panama bank account that you open. The day you get your Visa, you can start spending that money.

You will also need to set up a Panama corporation.

Let me know if you have any other questions about getting a Friendly nations Visa.

Jackie

PanamaJackie
  6/22/2019 11:59 EST

You might consider taking a www.PanamaRelocationTours.com/tours

We've been doing relocation tours since 2010 and just completed our 103rd relocation tour.

Check out the testimonials on our website, facebook and youtube.

It's a 6-day all-inclusive tour. You'll see a variety of different areas in Panama in a variety of different price points plus you'll learn all the things you need to know to relocate to Panama in the most affordable way.

Many Canadians have come on our tour then relocated to Panama.

Julsfem
  6/22/2019 17:52 EST

Thank you Jackie, I have actually considered that and I think when we come out for our first visit, it is exactly what we will do, can you contact me with pricing, thanks again everyone who took time out to comment, so much to learn and do
Julia

missinglink
  6/22/2019 18:55 EST

What never fails to astound me is all the people who are defiantly making the move to Panama but have never been for a visit even once. Not even for a 1wk vacation let alone renting a place a spending a few months at a minimum. Mind boggling!

FredfromArkansas
  6/22/2019 20:37 EST

But the magazines say it is paradise! How can you go wrong?

Julsfem
  6/22/2019 22:12 EST

Missing link
When people reach a certain age and know that the country they lived in while working, will not be affordable when retire they start to think outside of the box. I have done much reading on several countries, and did some research, by all my standards...good weather, fresh fruit and veggies, fish, and affordable cost of living puts Panama on the radar for me. That is not saying that I am definitely moving to Panama, and obviously going to go and try it on for size, but I am moving somewhere. I narrowed it down to Panama, and that’s where I’ll start. People that are planning to move are doing research, and who better to ask then folks in Panama.

FredfromArkansas
  6/22/2019 22:35 EST

I have not retired yet. I have done research, and tried to read as much about bad experiences that I could find, as well as the good. I have spent two three week vacations there. My research and experiences have lead me to the conclusion that Panama is where I want to be in about a year and a half. That being said, I can see where the average American (or Canadian) could be miserable here. I really see why most of the expats will tell you that half move back within the first year. This is most definitely not the United States - South. Ask about mail service. Ask about potential water shortages. Ask about power outages. The last trip I learned about earthquakes. Panama is not paradise, but it is a wonderful place, if you can deal with the differences.

Carolannf
  6/22/2019 22:42 EST

Dear mindboggling
We are coming to check out beautiful Panama in September

volcan357
  6/22/2019 22:53 EST

If you want to live in the tropics I think Panama is a good choice. Problems with electrical outages or the water can be dealt with in one way or another. One thing to remember is that even though Panama is a small country there are lots of locations from which to choose. You might be happy in one location and not another. You need to get to know the country a bit and do some exploring. It is just like in the USA. There are places I really like in the USA and others I totally hate. In my own case all the places I really like have a temperate climate but I wanted to live in the tropics. So here I am in Panama.

panamajames
  6/22/2019 23:57 EST

In Panama, we learn to live with the good and the bad if you are going to stay here for any length of time. It reminds me of living at the cottage on weekends or the summer, which was different than living in the city, but it was always enjoyable. At the cottage it was always summer weather, and that is what we have here in Panama year round. At the cottage we would run out of water, so we saved rain water in barrels and tucked it away to use in the toilets and to have showers, or boil to drink. We have done that here in Panama the exact same way at times. We harvest rainfall into milk or water jugs for the toilets and save filtered drinking water in Vodka and other glass bottles and keep it rotated. We never got any mail at the cottage. That was a blessing. We never get any mail here in Panama either, and we love it. I did get mail 5 years ago when I ordered birth certificates from the Government. I think we did some E-Bay and Amazon shipping a few years ago to see how that worked. It worked well. At the cottage there were always power outages. We had candles and wooden matches along with a flashlight in the glove box of the car for real emergency lighting. And we would catch fireflies in a jar. Here in Panama, we have the UPS and battery operated lights and we still use candles but they are scented. We never had earthquakes at the cottage but now we know what they were always talking about in California when they had some shakers. It was disturbing at first but now its like a ride at the local fair.
Sometimes it's a good shaker like a bull ride and other times, it's a dud. Sometimes at the cottage we had some big rains where we had to put pots and pans all over the cottage to catch the water. Sometimes we would find a frog in one of the pots. Here in Panama, we have torrential downpours where the sky just opens with warm, rain forest, liquid sunshine. We also have leaky roofs here in most places and not only frogs visit but a variety of lizard creatures love the jungle rains as well. I saw my first scorpion here in Panama, and spiders as big as my outstretched hand. I have pictures that I have taken of bugs and creatures that I have never seen before. The butterflies and birds are most amazing. Coatis, similar looking to racoons are everywhere and some people have them as pets like a cat. You can hand feed them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coati Pumas and Jaguars are seen deep in the jungles along with monkeys and other creatures. Many folks have rescue zoos on their properties. Living in Panama is a different experience to be sure, and you will either love it or hate it. The haters go home within the first year. It is not for everyone so always good to come for a holiday or two or more, so see if the Panama lifestyle is for you. Always good for the husband and the wife to both agree that Panama is mutually satisfactory.

Carolannf
  6/23/2019 00:43 EST

Again, panamajames, you're the best

volcan357
  6/23/2019 01:11 EST

I grew up on a farm in Pennsylvania. Later I lived on a property in Tennessee for 25 years where my closest neighbour was a couple of miles away. So here where I live in Volcan I don't notice that my life is that much different. Today I was clearing an area with my machete and I noticed an orchid on a tree that is just about ready to bloom. I think it is in the genus Brassica. I will see when it blooms. What is exciting is that I didn't put it there. It is a wild orchid. Actually there are lots of wild orchids but many are species with flowers that are less interesting. Anyway I think Panama is good for people who grew up in the country. If you prefer city life try Medellin. Lots of inexpensive restaurants. Lots of beautiful girls riding down the street in their motorcycles with their long hair flowing out in the wind from underneath their helmets. You can watch them as you sit sipping a Club Colombia beer at one of the many places that have tables on the sidewalk. You won't be disappointed. I mean why would anyone even dream of retiring in boring old USA when there are so many more interesting places to be? Going back to the US for me would be like buying a plot in the cemetery and picking out my gasket. It would be throwing in the towel.

panamajames
  6/23/2019 01:21 EST

As a matter of fact Volcan357, I am leaving the country life in Chiriqui for a few weeks starting July to enjoy Medellin and the restaurant scene with my favourite Colombian beer. My niece from Toronto just got a job in Ecuador and we are flying down to visit with her before she starts working. She wanted us to join her in Ecuador but we said, how about Medellin, our favourite big city as of late, a short plane ride away, and she agreed. We are meeting in Poblado and then on to Laureles and then a bit of travelling here and there. Next to Panama, Colombia is the best.

Panabud
  6/23/2019 13:15 EST

"Boring old USA"... didn't get out much did ya Volcan? We got it all here and anything not found locally is a cheap domestic flight away. There's no need to live in a foreign place where people speak a different language and accomplishing simple things is a chore. But hey to each his own.

ginnypeary
  6/23/2019 15:32 EST

I couldn’t agree with you more.
Try it on, if it’s not a great fit move on!
We have been to Belize (definitely not a good fit, ppl don’t care about there own country)
Went to Costa Rica, not a great fit but not to bad either, but after taking a tour and finding out a little more. It was a NO also.
We will be coming down for a quick week sometime in September AND then to D. R.
Panama will allow us more then CR, as in taxing what we want to bring. Panama = $10,000 each
CR taxes EVERYTHING as a artist I can see paying taxes on a $1.00 paint brush (& I have a lot of them) I also do stained glass REFUSE to pay more for what I already have (it was expensive in the 1st place.
The furniture will stay here (sell it or give it away) but there are things we want to bring with us. Just, wont fit in 2 suitcases! Like some say they did. But if Panama doesn’t feel right then it’s off to DR to check out.
But I’m hoping Panama will be just what we are looking for (fingers X’d....lol)
So the old saying “Boots on the ground” is just what people need to do before moving. We can retire here on what we will get from SS, so we are moving but to where is the question

ginnypeary
  6/23/2019 15:55 EST

That should have said ...
We can’t retire on what we get from SS here in the USA
But we can be very comfortable on it somewhere else.
I’m disabled but I can get around
Or just get a motorcycle or a golf cart to drive if need be, for short trips. Won’t need a car unless we have to go to the airport to pick someone up.
I’m also going for the friendly Nation Visa, as I want to sell my wears at the fairs or festivals.
Best of luck to all that want to see what else is out there. Cost of living is outrageous here in the states!

ranadelnorte
  6/23/2019 15:59 EST

@ginnypeary
Please check importation regulations with your immigration attorney. IMO if you and your spouse are coming in as a couple, that is to say with $1,250 monthy income for the 2 of you, the allowance for importing used personal goods is $10,000 per application. On the other hand, if you’re each coming in individually on your own, then the allowance would be $10,000 each.
Good luck!

panamajames
  6/23/2019 16:03 EST

It is very individual, because you have your specific likes and dislikes. I agree with you about Belize. I loved Venezuela but the politics were wrong. I was sold on Costa Rica until I discovered Panama. I was told that Boquete might be a great fit. I liked it a lot but others thought I might like Coronado. They were wrong. We tried El Valle and it was close to our liking but it was a no. Gamboa, Panama City, the Azuero Peninsula were all a no. We did like Penonome and we even bought a farm there of 23 acres which was all farm land and a farm house to get back to the land and the soil. We went to Volcan and it came in second spot before El Valle and after Boquete. We decided that Penonome was too hot and we really weren't farmers, so we settled in Chiriqui Province in Boquete. It is not for everyone. If everyone found the perfect place to live, it would end up being awfully crowded, so find what you like because it is all in Panama, from the big city to the small town, to the beaches and the mountains. Pick your favorite mean temperature as you head upwards from sea level to the mountain range that is the backbone of Panama. The temperatures decrease as you climb the mountain range and you can always find a little community every few miles. I found one the other day I really liked called Alanje It is all here, you just have to pick your spot.

jonoyakker
  6/23/2019 16:10 EST

Might consider Colombia and Ecuador.

volcan357
  6/23/2019 22:58 EST

If you want to live somewhere and not have a car I would seriously consider Colombia. Public transportation is cheaper and better in Colombia. Taxes are a concern since Colombia wants to tax you on your worldwide income if you have residency. However I saw on the internet that Colombia now allows foreign retirees to earn up to 120 thousand dollars per year in pension income without paying any tax. Apparently this is something new that just passed. The big downside to living in Medellin is that there is no space to have a yard. So you can't do any gardening. However there are smaller towns close to Medellin where you can. Where I live in Volcan I couldn't live without a car. I have an old Toyota Land Cruiser Jeep that costs me very little to keep up. It has a diesel engine and is very economical. I do my own repairs. It is a 1990 model. I paid 6000 dollars for it about 10 years ago and have been driving it ever since. I took the cylinder head off of it about 6 years ago and had a machine shop in David overhaul it. It runs really great. One thing about Volcan is that you have this rich black soil with a high humus content. If I move it would be hard to fine a place with such good soil. On my property you can dig down 3 or 4 feet and you still have rich black soil with a lot of humus. Actually you dig down a little over a foot and you find a thin layer of gritty material from when the volcano erupted about 1000 years ago. Below that more black humus until you get really deep. Getting back to Colombia I think it is the only Latin American country that is cheaper than Panama especially for the quality of life that it offers. Most of the other countries that are supposedly cheaper have higher duties on imported items so they are not really cheaper.

thorky
  6/24/2019 01:28 EST

Hi. Could you please tell me where on the internet you saw that retirees don't have to pay income tax on less than 120 thousand dollars. Thanks.

jonoyakker
  6/24/2019 03:50 EST

I can tell you a few more disadvantages to Medellin proper. One is air pollution-it sits in a valley. Beggars are much more present than in Panama, at least right now with the Venezuela problem. Petty crime is more present in Colombia. I find there is less English in Colombia, but El Pablado (upscale area) in Medellin is an exception. Another, and this is opinion of course...is that it is not as stable as Panama, if you are going to buy property. Also, I read that to start a business, it is a real quagmire. On the plus side, Colombia is refreshingly more clean, organized, maintained and attractive. And the quaint old culture is more present. The people seem better educated. Medellin gets less rain and humidity than Panama. And with the dollar exchange, pretty much everything in Colombia is less expensive, at least now.

jonoyakker
  6/24/2019 03:50 EST

I can tell you a few more disadvantages to Medellin proper. One is air pollution-it sits in a valley. Beggars are much more present than in Panama, at least right now with the Venezuela problem. Petty crime is more present in Colombia. I find there is less English in Colombia, but El Pablado (upscale area) in Medellin is an exception. Another, and this is opinion of course...is that it is not as stable as Panama, if you are going to buy property. Also, I read that to start a business, it is a real quagmire. On the plus side, Colombia is refreshingly more clean, organized, maintained and attractive. And the quaint old culture is more present. The people seem better educated. Medellin gets less rain and humidity than Panama. And with the dollar exchange, pretty much everything in Colombia is less expensive, at least now.

ranadelnorte
  6/24/2019 11:15 EST

@jonoyakker
You’ve nailed all the cons of immigrating to Colombia, specifically Medellin. It falls into the nice-place-to-visit-but-wouldn’t-want -to-live-there category.

JaimeC
  6/24/2019 14:40 EST

I believe you are taxed on your worldwide income AND networth (imputed at 4% return) whether a resident or not, it is 183 days in country to be taxable.

jonoyakker
  6/25/2019 06:14 EST

Randalnorte; I don't know how it is to live in Medellin, because I haven't tried it yet. Many have, and enjoy it. The bottom line is that there is no perfect place, and certainly no perfect place for everyone.

Panamaholmes
  6/26/2019 09:15 EST

The post above is the first I heard about how Columbia taxes its residents, so I did a little research out of curiosity.

https://medellinguru.com/income-taxes/

I see a lot of folks pointing to Columbia as a cheaper alternative to Panama. Columbia's tax system looks like it takes away a lot of those savings.

tmamato2001
  6/26/2019 18:27 EST

Just not true! Stop pushing for your own agenda please!

tmamato2001
  6/26/2019 18:34 EST

My advise is not to listen to any advise you get on this site until you do a lot of research on your own and experience it first hand. Many of the folks on this site are in Panama because they moved here many years ago and cannot afford to live somewhere else. When they finally run out of money they continue south. Many have there own agenda's of being lonely living in areas that are too remote. Many are trying to attract new immigrants to those areas and some are trying to sell their property or increase the value. Most that are west of Rio Hato are there for those reasons. There are limited services beyond that point. Maybe okay for a young person but older people of means want better services. Anyway beware of the advice you are getting. There will be many that will take a shot at this note and those are the ones you should really avoid. Good luck and happy hunting for a new life and new home!

tmamato2001
  6/26/2019 18:34 EST

My advise is not to listen to any advise you get on this site until you do a lot of research on your own and experience it first hand. Many of the folks on this site are in Panama because they moved here many years ago and cannot afford to live somewhere else. When they finally run out of money they continue south. Many have there own agenda's of being lonely living in areas that are too remote. Many are trying to attract new immigrants to those areas and some are trying to sell their property or increase the value. Most that are west of Rio Hato are there for those reasons. There are limited services beyond that point. Maybe okay for a young person but older people of means want better services. Anyway beware of the advice you are getting. There will be many that will take a shot at this note and those are the ones you should really avoid. Good luck and happy hunting for a new life and new home!

volcan357
  6/26/2019 22:26 EST

The idea that expats live in Panama because they can't afford to live in the US is totally ridiculous. As I pointed out in a previous post it is cheaper to buy a used travel trailer and live in an RV park in South Florida or South Texas. In fact by the time you pay for air fares and collect the paperwork plus pay the lawyer and fees for residency you could easily buy yourself a nice used travel trailer. If your family is from here and you are Panamanian maybe you might live cheaper here but an ordinary expat is going to be able to live cheaper back home. The poorest people in the US never leave. They never get a passport and they never travel. They can't afford it. When I lived in Tennessee I lived cheaper than I do here in Panama. I remember buying a 10 lb bag of chicken leg quarters as cheap as $2.90 and small eggs 3 dozen for a dollar and 5 cans of pork and beans for a dollar. Plus a 10 lb bag of potatoes for 59 cents. I am sure prices are higher now but there are a lot of things cheaper in the US. Plus where I lived in Tennessee the government gave low income retirees part time jobs working in the National Forest. If I was really struggling economically I would do better if I returned to the US rather than stay in Panama. Anyway what is the point of bashing fellow expats who use this forum like they are all somehow wanting to take advantage of the newcomers. Most of us do our best to give people useful advice. The most important thing about coming to Panama is that you can pursue something interesting that you enjoy.

FredfromArkansas
  6/26/2019 23:16 EST

Not everything is cheaper in Panama. Looking at housing prices in near Boqete, they are actually quite similar to rural Arkansas. Food is about the same, for what in Panama is not imported, sometimes higher if imported. Uilities are much cheaper in Boquete, property taxes can be avoided, public transportation is cheaper, and healthcare is cheaper. So yes, I feel I can live cheaper in Panama, not a lot, but significant. Less government services will be an adjustment. Weather is better, and from my limited experience, I feel like the lifestyle is better. I really wish that some of the magazines would stop calling Panama a paradise, it is not. If it works for you, you can be very happy on a reduced budget. If you are like half the expats that move to Panama, it will not be pleasant and you will go back screaming that you will not leave the country again.

volcan357
  6/27/2019 02:54 EST

Well you know Fred the funny thing with me is that I have become so used to living in Latin America and almost exclusively using Spanish as my spoken language that I am really part of the culture here. I know I am unusual for an expat but I couldn't go back to the US. I wouldn't be able to adjust to living there anymore. I have been here too long. I just couldn't go back. Everybody here talks to me. Back there I would be a stranger. My brother lives in Philadelphia but all his friends are weird. I can't relate to them at all. Especially the younger people. There is nothing you can say to them.

jonoyakker
  6/27/2019 05:27 EST

Volcan, I don't need a lot of living space, but I don't see myself living in a travel trailer. Certainly not with my SO. Yet, there are 2 or 3 major expense problems to living pretty much anywhere in the US as compared to Panama, and some other Latin American countries. One is the crappy mass transit systems in the US that requires owning a car or facing major hassles. The other is medical care. I confess I am no expert on the medicare system and the out of pocket costs associated with that. But for me personally, being too young, that is not even an option. I have an opportunity to do some nice work in the US but I don't want to pay the ridiculous health insurance costs. The other problem is heating and/or cooling costs as compared to where I live in El Valle. The only way to match the beauty and climate in the US would be for me to live in Hawaii. Those costs will positively choke you.

jonoyakker
  6/27/2019 05:41 EST

tmamato, I think you are over reacting. I don't think most expats here are trying to push a scheme. The biggest problem I see is that when posters write about their area, the omit the negatives. I don't think that it is a scheme, it more a personal bias. The bottom line is that, THERE IS NO PERFECT PLACE, AND CERTAINLY NO PERFECT PLACE FOR EVERYONE. Come visit, take your time, travel around, make your own choice. One way to eliminate a lot of time and travel is to decide whether or not you want to live in the heat of low elevation, or if you really prefer proximity to the ocean.

ginnypeary
  6/27/2019 17:07 EST

Medicare cost a average of $138.00 per month
That’s what they take from my disability check, and it goes up not down as I age. How’s that for “how expensive medical insurance is”
it’s cost affective per month for me to live outside the states and still get the same OR even better care some where else. If I wasn’t married I’d be living on the streets HOMELESS or on even living on more government money! I can’t wait to get the (you know what) out of the states! That’s why we are looking at different places. All ready knockout 2 country’s 2 more to look at before we decide
So I am enjoying reading all of your comments on how good, bad or ugly Panama is. I’m learning tons of information.
Anywhere is got to be better then here!!!

tmamato2001
  6/30/2019 11:52 EST

I think you will find Panama too expensive. Maybe Guatemala or Honduras maybe San Salvador will enable you to live comfortably on disability.

ginnypeary
  7/3/2019 22:30 EST

I couldn’t find the original post of someone looking for the CR rocking chairs.
I asked my husband where we were when we found the hand made lather low back chairs.
His reply was “We were in the city if Sarchi “
They were so comfortable I didn’t want to get out of it. But as we were flying back to the states, we decided to just wait and buy them after we move.
So that’s the name of the town/city where we found then. No factory made, everything in the shops there is HANDMADE by Costa Rican’s. Again good luck

KeryCruz
  7/24/2019 09:56 EST

I know pesons that does not have good experiences with POLS. Their website is great for information, but you should double check with other foreigners about their experiences with them.

KeryCruz
  7/24/2019 10:06 EST

You should check with your lawyer which is the best option for you. As you are Canadian you can apply for a friendly country visa. You check information in the following link

General Information:

https://www.kerycruz.com/en/friendly-country-visa

However, you mentioned you are pensioner or retired (not sure), you can check the requirements for the pensioner visa in the following link

https://www.kerycruz.com/en/pensioner-visa

Regarding living cost. Panama City is expensive. As expensive as South Korea, that is in the top ranking of the most expensive cities in the world. However, life in the countryside could be more affordable.

Best Regards,

KeryCruz
  7/24/2019 10:10 EST

You need to proof that you have 5000 in a bank account, and 2000 for each dependent. But, you need to prove your economic, commercial or professional relationship with Panama, for that you need to have a property, or a corporation. You can check the requirement in the following link

https://www.kerycruz.com/en/practice-area/immigration-process-panama

Also, bear in mind the requirements to open a bank account, in case you want to open an account in Panama for this process

https://www.kerycruz.com/en/news/bank-account-for-non-resident-foreigners

KeryCruz
  7/24/2019 10:10 EST

I listened worst things about them.

tiredofsnow
  5/13/2020 17:19 EST

Hello can I chat with you about our upcoming move to Panama? Drop me a line and we can go from there.id love to talk.and yes we are Canadians also.

llseldon
  5/13/2020 17:23 EST

Try David Dafydd Young: [email protected]
[email protected]
not sure either are still correct, best I can do, Dave had good info for Canukes, etc.

ranadelnorte
  5/13/2020 17:30 EST

@Tiredofsnow
This is a very long thread - close to 80 posts.
Just a hint - It would be a good idea to use the @ User Name, just like i did at the top of this post to let people know who you are addressing your comment to.

tiredofsnow
  5/14/2020 20:54 EST

Hello can other Canucks join this chat?from the white North of Yukon.

ranadelnorte
  5/14/2020 21:14 EST

Hello
I am a Canadian, a Montrealer, living in Panama City on a pensionado visa for over 6 years.
I’ve answered many of your questions in other posts.
What specific info are you seeking at this time?

VickiCollado
  5/14/2020 22:13 EST

Check www.kerycruz.com for legal advise and Premier Casa for properties rental and in sale.

https://www.premiercasa.com

thorky
  5/15/2020 11:08 EST

Thanks for your response. Specifically I want to know if there is any benefit to declaring non resident status to RevCan. If one declares non resident status and proves it with documentation is there any reduction in the 25% withholding tax? Thank you.

ranadelnorte
  5/15/2020 11:24 EST

Yes. As a non-resident filing under NR217, you negotiate a withholding rate with Revenue Canada for your Canadian-sourced pension income. You negotiate because Panama and Canada don’t have a tax treaty. My personal rate for example is 13% vs the standard 25%. It takes time for their final decision - up to 2 years. If I’d moved to a country that has a reciprocal tax treaty with Canada, like France for example, then the withholding tax would have been the rate under the treaty (10%).

There is NO income tax on investment returns if you do a deemed disposition when you depart Canada.

Consult an experienced tax accountant for all the details.

Good luck!

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