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Friendly Nations Visa

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Taurus13
  11/9/2019 09:02 EST

Hello,

What is an average cost per person (a family of two, including everything) for a FNV?
Best institution to work with in your opinion?
Not sure if it’s a smart idea to apply for it now if I’m willing to purchase a real estate in Panama now (I know I can only apply for the Visa within 6 months after purchasing) but relocate there in another 8-10 years.
I’m thinking about securing my future employment in Panama if I decide to do so when time comes.
Appreciate your input.

sleepingduty
  11/9/2019 10:44 EST

I would highly recommend that you take a tour of Panama before you make any kind of decision on what visa would be best. I personally took a 6 day tour with Jackie Lange (Panama Relocation Tours) 2 years ago and it was so informative about all aspects of Panama. She has many good people in place to help you succeed in achieving your final goal in Panama. My husband and I have our cedulas now, I used the Friendly Nations visa, and my husband used the pensions do visa. There is a lot of variables depending on which visa you choose and who helps you. Feel free to PM me. Kathy

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Taurus13
  11/9/2019 11:58 EST

Thanks Katie, appreciate your response.
We’re visiting Panama for the first time on December 5th for a week and are planning to explore the country in all directions. It’s a bit too early to participate in Jackie’s tour ( we plan to relocate in 8-10 years).
However, I’m thinking about buying a house there for our future retirement (I do understand that we need to figure out where to live by renting first) Because of that, I need to figure out the best plan of actions. With purchase of the property, I can get the FNV, just in case. That’s why I’m interested in how much it cost from those who recently applied for the FNV.

jr555
  11/9/2019 16:43 EST

I understand what you are trying to do and I’m not saying it is a bad idea as it is a buyer’s market, but keeping mind that 8 to 10 years is a long time and things can change a lot.
If you do go ahead and purchase to support pursuing a Friendly Nations Visa be sure to consider all the things that could affect you over the next 10 years before making the final move here. For example, you don’t want to come over every year and discover you need to put $10k into the property as that would spoil your trip and drain resources. Things left idle deteriorate quickly. Neither would you want regular phone calls or emails telling you to send money because something has to be fixed. Maybe you just need a small lot with a Panamanian “fixer-upper” on it that doesn’t matter if it is left idle for years.

TravelingRon1
  11/9/2019 18:59 EST

You do not need to buy a house to apply for the visa as you can use $5K in a bank account Let me summarize the total cost as most people just give part of it or just the lawyers fee which is really one of the smallest costs (about $1,500 to $2000) some lawyers are cheaper but when choosing a lawyer as with a lot of things in life the cheapest option is often not the best option. Also the one that ranks the highest on google is often not the best. To summarize all the costs
Lawyer fee $1,500 plus $750 per dependent Family of two is what husband wife and 2 kids (which is a family of 4) or is just husband and wife. I will let you do the math.
Now after the lawyer is all the other stuff for the friendly nations you need a personal bank account which is really hard to get until you have your resident card so most people do it with a lawyer and that costs $1000 so opening a bank account in todays world costs more then the immigration process for a dependent But you just need one for the family. You have to put money in the bank account which is not really a cost but you do have to have the funds and the minimum to qualify for the Visa is $5,000. Also if you are looking at applying later you have to keep the account active to deposit a bit in it each month. There is the expenses of each person (most going to the government figure about $1,500 in expenses. once you apply you have to get a multiple entry visa which the lawyer will charge about $300 to do. The other thing you need is a corporation and a corporate bank account. This can be used to buy the property or run your business from later but all in will cost about $1500 to start and another $1000 to get the bank account plus annual fees and those depend a lot on how it is set up do you use nominee directors or do you want just the minimum but the annual cost can easily be $900 per year. As you can see a lot of the costs are things that you need to qualify and would need if you were to live and do business in Panama so often are not considered expenses of the resident processes but to have everything to qualify and mover to Panama figure about $7,000 for the main person and $3,000 per dependent, plus money in the bank account. The website with a lot of information on this and all the costs is https://www.kerycruz.com/en/practice-area/immigration/friendly-country-visa
Other thing you mentioned is buying a house which is a much bigger expense than the immigration. and a home may likely be much different then and investment property and could have a cost of holding it until you move down as some locations are great to live but do not rent well. Panama city is the main investment property location (and can be a great place to live although Panama has a lot more then just Panama City) before you buy I would talk to more then one realtor for investment property I think Premier Casa is one of the better ones https://www.premiercasa.com/en/panama But you do need to really define why are you moving to Panama (it is not cheap so do not say because you cannot afford to live in the US) What will be your life style that you want to achieve? And you mentioned working so what are your skills and is it a profession that is protected for only Panamanian citizens (which you can apply for after being a permanent citizen for 5 years but is another long processes time wise) Also the wage base in Panama is much different particularly if you want to have a "job" Working for yourself your income can be based on your productivity so it is possible to make a lot more. Another things to consider it that most of the live in Panama tours also get commissions from the vendors they recommend so you are paying them to recommend vendors that are also paying them to be recommended. (that does not mean the vendors are bad by any means they do often only work with ones that will perform) but is it good to know that the vendors are paying to be recommended. I think Panama is a great place to live and if you really look at why you are moving to Panama and define what you want it can be a great choice. Most of the unhappy people were not well informed and believed things on the internet that have nothing to do with the reality of Panama. Explore as you are ahead of time and if it meets what you are looking for it is a great place. It can be good to apply for residency sooner than later so that by the time you move to Panama you will already qualify for citizenship. Also buying a property now may be a good idea but you need to really define what you want since it will be a home.

StanleySankey
  11/9/2019 20:09 EST

I would suggest that you re-examine your plan to purchase property at this time.
The FN Visa has no requirement to own property:

This is the link to the official site of the Ministry of Immigration and the requirements for the FN Visa
https://www.migracion.gob.pa/images/pdf/CHECK_LIS_LEYES_ESPECIALES.pdf This document is all in Spanish of course, but I have added my translation below.

Item 9 can be satisfied by a long term lease (1 yr) of a house or apartment, plus the economic activity part can be addressed by forming a Panamanian corporation. The fee to keep it active is $300 per year.

This is a much less expensive and risky option than buying property 10 years out, especially as you have never been here yet and will have to live here for years before you truly know that this is the right place. Many of my expat friends decided after 5 years to move on to other locations.

The real estate market is not very liquid here and in fact prices have been declining so if you decide later that Panama is not the place; you do not want to be stuck with a property that is difficult to sell and perhaps has also dropped in value.



================================

PERMANENT RESIDENT IN QUALITY OF NATIONAL FOREIGNERS OF
SPECIFIC COUNTRIES THAT KEEP FRIENDLY RELATIONS,
PROFESSIONAL, INVESTMENT ECONOMICS WITH THE REPUBLIC OF
PANAMA (PRP-PE)
Requirements:
1. Power and Request (notarized).
2. Three (3) photographs.
3. A duly collated copy of the passport (Notary or corresponding Aut.).
4. Criminal Record Certificate.
5. Health Certificate.
6. Certified Check for B / 250.00 in favor of the National Treasury.
7. Certified Check for B / 800.00 in favor of the National Migration Service.
8. Affidavit of Personal History Form.
9. Document demonstrating the purpose to establish your residence (activity
economic or professional to perform).
10. Copy of your country's identity document or card.
11. In case of dependents:
11.1. Letter of responsibility.
11.2. Proof of kinship.
11.3. Proof of address.
11.4. Over 18 years of age present single certificate and certified studies.
12. Bank certification or statement of the last month that reflects balance no
less than four average figures or another that shows your income and that is
Acceptable to the National Migration Service.

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Taurus13
  11/10/2019 08:55 EST

Wow! Very extensive and detailed info; I'll take into consideration your suggestions and I appreciate your feedback TravelingRon1 and StanleySankey!

I made some connections on my own and will meet with a few people when I'm down there in December.

I also got an estimate for the FNV from a law firm and I'm placing it below for those who also wants to know:

-Main Applicant: ..................
-Dependents under 12 years old: 0
-Dependents who are 12 years old or more: 1
-Professional or Economic Ties with Panama: Real Estate Ownership
-Panama Work Permit: Only the main applicant intends to obtain a Work Permit
-Location: United States

BASIC COST ESTIMATE

The Basic Cost Estimate for the Friendly Nations Visa Process is:USD $4900

This includes Legal Fees and Government costs:

- Application fee
- Repatriation fee
- Government ids at immigration
- Multiple entry visa
- Notary, translations and health certificate

This Basic Cost Estimate DOES NOT include:

- Work permit fees and costs
- Cedula application
- Bank account opening assistance
- Panama IBC / LLC

PROFESSIONAL OR ECONOMIC TIES WITH PANAMA
You indicated that you plan to use Real Estate Ownership to demonstrate professional or economic ties with Panama.

Real Estate Ownership requires an investment of at least USD $10,000, registered in the Panama Public Registry under the name of the main applicant.


ADD ON SERVICES

On top of the Basic Cost Estimate, and the costs associated to demonstrate professional / economic ties with Panama, you have the option to opt in for these additional services:

Personal Bank Introduction (USD $300)

The FNV requires the main applicant to have a personal bank account funded with USD $5,000.

Through the Personal Bank Introduction Service we will review your banking application and introduce you to our preferred bankers.

Personal Bank Introduction and Assistance (USD $400)

The FNV requires the main applicant to have a personal bank account funded with USD $5,000. We will provide you with a reference letter as part of the services included in the BASIC COST ESTIMATE, which you can use to open your bank account in Panama.

Through the Personal Bank Introduction Service we will review your banking application and introduce you to our preferred bankers, and accompany you to the bank.

Escrow Service (USD $300)

Use this service if you would like to transfer the funds from your country of origin to our account prior to your trip. The funds will then be ready once you have arrived in Panama.

Visto Bueno (USD $400)

The FNV requires a background check / police report from your country of origin. Background checks / police reports with incidents must first receive authorization from Panamanian Authorities prior to submitting a Permanent Residency application.

Use this service if there are any incidents listed on your background check / police report

PAYMENT SCHEDULE

The Basic Cost Estimate for the Friendly Nations Visa Process is: USD $4900. This cost is split in 3 payments as follows:

- Payment 1 (Retainer): USD $1550
- Payment 2 (when submitting application): USD $2100
- Payment 3 (when application is approved): USD $1250


All costs related to ADD ON SERVICES must be paid upfront, along with the First Payment.

ADDITIONAL SERVICES ONCE PERMANENT RESIDENCY IS OBTAINED

Once Permanent Residency is obtained, you can also get the following services:

Cedula (USD $265 per person)

The cedula is an OPTIONAL form of identification that provides a unique ID number which becomes the official proof of identity in Panama. Permanent residents are not required to obtain the e-cedula; however, it is highly recommended. This is because the e-cedula card is an accepted proof of identity anywhere in Panama, while the permanent residency card requires foreigners to carry their passport as a proof of ID.

Work Permit (USD $950 per person)

The Work Permit process will allow the main applicant and dependents to legally work in Panama. This is a mandatory process for those who want to pursue a job position that would be otherwise filled by a Panamanian.

Taurus13
  11/10/2019 09:17 EST

Thanks jr555, very sound advice!
I'm looking more into investing in a new construction or pre-construction retirement home in a good location that has to be 100% rentable now when we are here in US, and where we personally would enjoy living in.
I'm hopping it won't fall apart by the time we get there in 10 years :) In the worst case scenario, I can sell it with a 10 years appreciation upon relocation and buy another one somewhere else.

Is it really a strong buyer's market out there now? By looking at home prices in Panama, I am not convinced. May be they are just overpriced to have a room for negotiation???

volcan357
  11/10/2019 20:09 EST

Wow if it was that complicated and expensive to become a resident in Panama when I first came here 20 years ago I think I would have chosen somewhere else. It didn't cost me that much to become a Panamanian citizen and much less for residency. And of course as a citizen I don't need a work permit.

TravelingRon1
  11/11/2019 05:41 EST

It is more of a natural market. I recently read an article on how the market is rebounding but I think it depends on what and where. The most over priced are the new construction places as they attract more foreign buyers the best deals are the building 5 or 10 years old and even older in some cases. The quality of the building is much easier to see after 5 or 10 years and the price per m2 is lower and many are just as nice and usually bigger as the new thing is the micro units. As a bit of an old timer Im not sure how a person lives in 30 m2 home. Also the new units tend to lose value in the first 5 years so you do not get any application from those. They are easier to buy and more realtors push them since one listing will be good for 100 sales where the older units are one by one so the realtor has to work harder on those. But for me the older units are better to live in, have better appreciation and better rental rate return. Win, Win, Win. they are more work to find what you want.

TravelingRon1
  11/11/2019 05:55 EST

As per the comment below. Having been in and out of Panama for 20 years as well it is worth noting that wages in Panama are up 300% to 400% Real estate is up about 300% to 400% in 17 years and rent is up over 300% so not surprising the cost of lawyers is up as well, they are usually leading the price increase charge in life. For over all cost you may want to do a spread sheet as the one you listed above does not say the $800 or $250 you have to give to the Government is included so I think it is not which brings it up to $5,750. And does not include the bank account. so is a bit expensive. The https://www.kerycruz.com is about $3,700 without the government fees or bank account but can easily be $6,300 once you include other things. The lawyer is only $1,500 so it is all the other stuff that is the majority of the cost now days. Also is good to check the lawyer I would say your odds over the internet are about tops 50% that you will get a good one. (which does mean that there are a lot of good ones just seems to be an equal number of bad ones) But seems you have some time to look and learn, which is really good to do.

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