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Answer to why RP's poor??

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Tsmslf
7/2/2019 17:35 EST

My recent post asking why the RP is poor generated much interest and about 300 replies. I think I stumbled onto a reason, if not the reason.

The RP has a low IQ, tied with multiple other countries at an 86, ranked 21st among all countries. The US is tied for 9th place with other countries at 98. The US average is penalized by the 60 or so million blacks and Hispanics whose IQs are way below caucasians: blacks average 85 and Hispanics around 90-91 whereas caucasians average 100.

There is a major and well known though controversial study which asserts a direct correlation between IQ and economic growth/performance which I think makes sense empirically. The RP has no significant substrate of people other than Filipinos so I think their average of 86 is not skewed. See Brainstats.com for the data re nations.

Lots of IQ arguments I've discovered many trying to figure out whether IQ is genetic or environmental - nature vs nurture is the phrase used I've read.

I'm sure you all know many high IQ people in the RP; I know some myself. The point is not the intelligent few but the less cognitive many. Obviously there are many high IQ blacks in the US; Obama, Colin Powell and MLK come to mind. But they are the exception not the rule.

Look at the full list of countries and see which are at the top and the bottom. It seems to me there is an obvious consistency with the IQ results and the economic situation in the nations.

What do you all think of the study linking IQ and economic success? And its corollary - that RPs economic problems basically arise from the national IQ - does that make sense to you?

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sherwood
7/2/2019 17:58 EST

This seems to make sense but it does not make sense.
The average intelligent of any population is 100 plus or minus. If you add a significantly different population to the mix, you need to adjust your testing to come out with a 100 average.
The reason a new mix of people with a different background, culture and education does not do as good is because they are not familiar with the answers to the questions. It does not mean they are not as intelligent. It means they are not as smart to know the answers.
If americans were given an IQ test with question familiar to another culture they would do poorly also.
This by definition of an IQ of 100 based on selective questions. It really measures the schooling and what a person learns from his experience not his brain power.
It is hard for me to explain this - since this blob is just 100% prejudice and nothing more.

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darkfader24
7/2/2019 18:03 EST

Tsmslf - Although many might take offense at your assessment - I know that you are not equating human value, or even ability to be knowledgeable - with IQ. As we know, IQ has to do with knowledge - not inherent "Intelligence". I wish this ratio had been labeled KQ - as in "Knowledge Quotient", because the current title implies "Intelligence". I have personally known people who were highly intelligent - they picked up on things very quickly, almost intuitively, far faster than I ever did, yet they had very little knowledge about the World around them, either from coming from backgrounds where not much was invested in their education, or they were very young. I have heard in the past that people of Black African descent were not high on the scale, and much was made in an outdated form of measuring the head size and shape, or brain size. I think this stems from a deep seated bias wanting to marginalize these people. Yet, I have found many to be extremely intelligent. If it is true that Albert Einstein used roughly 10% of his brain, it shows the potential of brain power. It stands to reason that if someone from the Black African or Filipino Race used, say, 15% of their brain power then they would be on a par or even surpass Einstein in potential. I think a lot of it has to do with Nurturing (as little children) and therefore, love, the amount of positive attention that a child receives, knowledge input from adults that care for them, quality formal education, and effort on the part of the individual. Unfortunately, I don't have the time right now to sight some personal examples of the above due to time restrictions. I would welcome your thoughts.

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charkee
7/2/2019 18:21 EST

I don't think Filipinos have low IQs at all I find them more intelligent than the Americans I was around in the US.

However, I live in a college town. I have several professors, medical professionals, engineers as friends. I also have some friends that live in squatter's areas and a bote cart pusher.

How many Americans do you know that are bilingual? Most Filipinos I know are at least bilingual and many are trilingual or more. My late wife was fluent in 5 languages and she never missed a single question on an exam from first grade all the way through the university.

I have a friend, who's brother is attending a US university and just graduated as valedictorian. I saw another on a poster than scored as Cum Laude at Yale.

I'm fluent in 3 languages and in the US that makes me some sort of unusual freak genius, but in the Philippines I'm just run of the mill.

One thing I would caution everybody is to never underestimate the intelligence of a Filipino.

I do remember a study done years ago about Australian aborigines, showing they have low IQs.

However IQ tests were redesigned for their culture and suddenly they have high IQs and the whites were below average.

I have lived in several poor nations and the #1 factor in think is corruption. The more corruption the lower the prosperity.

When I lived in Honduras, yes there are a lot of really slow people. I recall taking an entire afternoon teaching teenages 'A, B, C" and I don't think most of them got it.

The problem there and it's been scientifically proven is malnutrition as a baby and toddler will affect the brain and the child's learning abilities for the rest of his life.

Malnutrition is widespread and daily, hourly I would see children with kwashiorkor. But it is rare that I see a child in the Philippines with kwashiorkor. .

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phonedoctor1
7/2/2019 18:39 EST

what is kwashiorkor ?

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charkee
7/2/2019 19:56 EST

Kwashiorkor, also known as “edematous malnutrition” because of its association with edema (fluid retention), is a nutritional disorder most often seen in regions experiencing famine. It is a form of malnutrition caused by a lack of protein in the diet.--wiki

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sherwood
7/3/2019 08:12 EST

I agree to this post. I learned sometime ago of a child that was born with a brain problem and that she was slow in learning and intelligent.
The parents home school her and treated her with love and devotion. Eventinually she took the exam and was accepted to college. She kept her studies until she became a lawyer and had a PHD. She taught and wrote books. Not bad for a person that had a learning disability.
It is what we do with our smartness that counts more than anything else in life, not that we are smart.

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gelynch52ph
7/3/2019 08:29 EST

IQ does not have to come out to 100%. It is another set of criteria altogether and it has been shown that The Philippines population has a very low IQ.

The reasons for that are probably many and varied, but I would guess that a piss poor education system, a total lack of inquisitiveness, and laziness contribute to the problem.

https://brainstats.com/average-iq-by-country.html

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gelynch52ph
7/3/2019 08:37 EST

charkee: I'm only going to comment on the one aspect that you talk about in which you are 100% wrong. Knowing multiple languages in in NO WAY a measure or indicator of intelligence. It is SOLELY the result of exposure to multiple languages as a child. Scientists do not yet know why; but at around the time of the onset of puberty, children tend to lose the ability to learn a second language.

However, a person who learns multiple languages as a child retains that ability as an adult. I knew many Filipinos in both Saudi and Korea who learned the language of those countries because they had learned one of the Philippine languages and English as children and thus retained the ability to learn language as adults.

If I had a Filipino wife, Vietnamese gardener and a speaker of Arabic in my house with my infant child, that child would learn all the associated languages but it would not be an indicator of intelligence. The same can be said of Melanoma tRump and just because she speaks multiple languages; it does not mean she is intelligent, just that she grew up in a part of the world where many languages are spoken.

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gelynch52ph
7/3/2019 08:39 EST

phonedoctor: I also did not know what "kwashiorkor" was but google was my friend.

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charkee
7/3/2019 11:01 EST

Gelysnich, I hate smart asses. Just told of my experience and people's reactions, okay?

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Tsmslf
7/3/2019 16:01 EST

The average IQ of a nation is not 100; and there is no adjustment for subgroups in a national IQ. American IQ is lower because of our two major subgroups. How much lower I have no clue.

IQ does NOT measure "schooling"; it measures one's ability to learn and solve problems.

You need to read up on IQ as your belief is simply wrong.

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Tsmslf
7/3/2019 16:15 EST

Sorry but IQ does not measure "knowledge". It measures cognitive ability, i.e., how smart you are not how much you may know.

That example of brain size was, I think, an evolutionary argument but since debunked.

Nobody knows why different races have such widely different IQs but they do. N.E. Asians have the highest I think at around 105 but those are not all Chinese - that's a different scoring.

In the US, there has been a concerted effort to close the IQ gap between whites and blacks by all kinds of government programs such as HeadStart and nutritional efforts but the gap has remained at about 15 IQ points.

The Nature vs Nurture argument continues though I'm not in it in any way other than as an observer. I wish it was different as it would solve many issues in many places but, Jefferson aside, all men are not created equal.

Personal examples are useless frankly as they go from the one to the many which as any IQ test will tell you, is a logical fallacy. And we all know examples of both sides of the point.

The fact is that nations have been sampled and tested and the results are in the Brainstats table which is not questioned by any experts as it comes from outside studies. See their citations. Some groups are not as smart as other groups. End of report.

Whether that is a major reason for economic success is up for grabs but it seems logical. And it's beyond question that RP is a lower IQ nation. Look at those which surround it or are below it. Then look at those above it.
It's obvious I think.

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Tsmslf
7/3/2019 16:23 EST

Well then, you disagree with the Brainstat table's results. have you any national level evidence rather than a handful of people you know? There are over 100 million Filipinos and I doubt you know enough of them to make a statistical difference.

I'll bet with Brainstat on this one

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Tsmslf
7/3/2019 17:46 EST

Yup. Even dumb people speak their native tongue and little kids, with no school, do too.

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catabisis
7/4/2019 23:38 EST

Charkee, you are either trolling, or misleading us if you think Filipinos as a whole are smarter than Americans. I’m not flag waving either. I don’t defend the U.S. in that manner. This place is in the condition it is in and is last in Asia, or close to it, for a reason. You sound almost as bad as that guy Seernai who constantly white knights for all things Davao and Duterte when he should know better.

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darkfader24
7/5/2019 14:05 EST

Dear Catabisis - I honestly don't think any people group are "smarter" than anyone else. I have seen kids from the Black American Ghetto - that I grew up in - when taken under the wing of someone who cares, become Medical Doctors of the highest order. If left in their environment with no intervention, they would have become idiot drug users, thugs, pimples on the butt of society - total losers. I think a lot of it boils down to attitude, environment, education, health, nutrition, so many factors. If most of these conditions are highly negative - garbage in / garbage out. America is amazing because of the brilliance of it's founding - and God's Blessings. It is a land where there is much freedom and opportunity. The people aren't inherently more intelligent - there is just so much more here to begin with. A Ghetto kid with the potential to be a phenomenal athlete - say basketball - is noticed by a coach in high school and is given attention and opportunity. He does nominally well in college and hones his skills with a lot of encouragement. He ends up in Pro Sports and signs contracts with a top team plus Nike, Cherios, Coca-Cola, TV Shows and Movies, etc. He's a multi-multi-millionaire. The same kid born as an Asian in a Philippine Ghetto - gets nothing, lives and dies with nothing. We never heard of him, and no one gives a crap. Just one hypothetical situation of many possible scenarios. My Ex-wife has worked for four Cardiologists since 1974. The best one she ever worked for was an African-American man who came from a black ghetto in the Oakland, California area. His brother is a thug who has been in prison for decades. He decided he was not going to go that route. She told me that the other docs in the office would see upwards of 40 patients a day. He refused to see more than 10, spending about an hour with each patient. She has so much respect for him, because he was extremely methodical, and for him it was never about the money - it was about "The Care". He was appointed the Director of the new "Heart Hospital" wing of the biggest hospital in town, along with keeping his practice. His brother decided to go one way - and he decided to go the other way - in the Land of Opportunity. I seriously doubt if the Philippines is "A Land of Very Much Opportunity".

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Tsmslf
7/5/2019 18:49 EST

Your post is anecdotal which is no basis for rebutting the RP's generally low IQ.
You and other posters miss the whole point: low national IQ equals a low economic level country. The post does not try to analyze why the IQ is low as that is a national issue which even the U.S. has not come close to solving. One black doctor or 100 such surgeons are blips with over 40 million black Americans just as the same would be against 100 million Filipinos.
Looking at the Brainstat list, it seems clear that there is a correlation between IQ and economic performance as a nation and thus I put that as a reason, not necessarily the reason, for the RP's miserable economic situation.
One thing the RP has going for it is its governmental structure is sound as it follows the US due to our prior protectorship. And, of course, English helps in world trade. But the problem is real and needs addressing as I think it is basic and comes before most if not all other reasons for poor economic performance.

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mootpoint20
7/6/2019 14:42 EST

You're a funny guy! "If the peasants have no bread, let them eat cake!" --Queen Marie Antoinette. That makes a lot of sense if this queen was so alienated she thought the peasants had that option. Common sense demands, it all depends on who is creating these tests! Nothing more complicated. By the way, do you happen to know Standupguy?

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Tsmslf
7/6/2019 20:22 EST

Funny as in Ha Ha I hope. Pun of the day and appropriate for you RP mackeral snappers (ha ha) is this:
How do you make holy water?
You boil the Hell out of it.
And I don't know Stand-up Guy or anyone on this site. I'm still in the L. A. area.
I also don't get your M.A. cake reference to my post.

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Tsmslf
7/6/2019 20:30 EST

Part 2: I'm seriously interested in trying to determine the RP's economic problem and am looking at a variety of possible rationales. I have no axe to grind, just looking for information and opinions.

As I've said, I have no idea or position on the nature vs nurture question and lean toward it's a mixture not either or.

Insofar as who writes the tests, they are normed to the country and the takers and are usually edited by local scholars. A Manila man doesn't take the same exam I take in Los Angeles. I don't know how they're scored but I assume they try to be fair/reasonable/etc If not, the criticism would be devastating.

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mootpoint20
7/6/2019 22:39 EST

Darkfader explained it all.

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Tsmslf
7/7/2019 10:10 EST

Baloney.
He subscribes to the nurture school of IQ which has been shown not to work. In the U.S., we have had decades of programs to improve health and environment characteristics but none of that has closed the"gap" as it's known in the IQ world. My own view is that it's a totality of the applicable circumstances but that IQ is real and critical. Some of us are just plain smarter than others and it is apparent that holds true for groups.

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Asawa
7/7/2019 14:06 EST

Please reconsider my initial response to the question. The cultural tendency toward the belief of "Fatalism".

Fatalism is a philosophical doctrine that stresses the subjugation of all events or actions to destiny.

Those that scribe to this view believe that we are powerless to do anything other than what we actually do. Included in this is that humans have no power to influence the future, or indeed, their own actions.

Fatalism and fatalistic views dictate that acceptance (of any situation) is appropriate. Those that ascribe to fatalism consider that resistance of the inevitable is foolish and a waste of effort.

This belief is very similar to defeatism. Defeatism is the acceptance of defeat without struggle, often with negative connotations. It also plays into a cultural propensity to avoid direct confrontations and conflict.

If you use this (cultural bias towards fatalism) as the cornerstone of analysis, all the rest falls into place.

Why don't people try to improve? Why don't people push for change? Why to people seem so content to tolerate their present circumstances when they could do so much more?

There are other reasons, but this seems to be one of the primary and foundational sociological causes.

Just my $0.02,
Asawa

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Asawa
7/7/2019 14:09 EST

Read this. You'll find it fascinating. It's my contribution to the on-going debate:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahala_na

I'll quote the overview for anyone who doesn't care to follow the link.

Bahala na is both a socio-cultural value in the Philippines, and a phrasing in Filipino language that is either said as an expression of a fatalistic attitude towards life or as a determined one in a challenging situation where things are risky and uncertain.

It can be translated to mean “whatever happens, happens,” “things will turn out fine,” or as “I'll take care of things.”

This attitude can have both positive and negative consequences for the Filipino people, one being the lack of urgency or sense of responsibility for one's plight, the other being that of openness to uncertainty, the exercise of free will to take a risk and attempt to shape outcomes to a degree, in face of known and unknown factors that come into play.

There is much more detail at the link above. If you make this the cornerstone of your analysis, you may have an "Aa-ha!" movement.

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surfingcebu
7/7/2019 14:44 EST

asawa- your bang on . Good input . in the RP many except their fate and deal with defeat almost with a smile on their face...kind of like a everyday thing . It kind of directs their future ( self destiny) , given how they respond to adversity . Heck, in the RP their is SO much adversity for a average family . I can learn a lot from my Pinoy friends ( and have) , but at times they accept defeat before even trying in earnest... this is something I try NOT to do .

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mootpoint20
7/7/2019 17:00 EST

Materialism determines cultural philosophy, not ideation, or one's thought life. Positive thinking will not make you rich, opportunity will. Most mongrels on this line came to the Philippines suffering from the very same plight they're now pointing their finger at concerning poor Filipinos. They were relatively 'poor' in America and relatively helpless. Now they can 'buy' a good wife. But times are changing and Filipinos are opening up their market to China. There is another blog where whining-Americans are fearful that Filipinos are being tricked by China. No, they're not! Duterte is wise enough to get paid. Prices will soon go up, and 'lazy-Americans' may have to move. One bird-brain attempts to use a batch of fancy words to appear intelligent, yet it's like listening to some Red-neck claiming African-Americans have 'rhythm'. (Reminds me of that screwball, SUG.)

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surfingcebu
7/7/2019 23:47 EST

Moot- where do you get this unconventional flight. Since when is China friendly to the Philippines? Very unconventional thought where did you learn the stuff?

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acol
7/8/2019 07:24 EST

I have always been rather skeptical about IQ tests. Culture, nurture, education style and so many other elements play a role so that making a IQ test neutrally adapted to all these elements seem to me an impossible task.
But one sure i am sure of is that linking IQ level and economic success doesn't make sense.
I noticed several IQ levels for which economical success is not linked to IQ.
Mongolia is 6th with 101. Where is the economical success?
Sierra Leone is rated rather high for an african country. Has diamond mining and others have to do with IQ?
I see Saudi Arabia, Oman, Bahrein, Qatar all ranked in the 80" IQ level, but for wealth they are at the top. So?
I see other reasons potentially for poor RP: too much children, to young, poor infrastructure, poor natural resources and the incredible capacity of pinoys to poorly manage their poor financial resources.

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acol
7/8/2019 07:40 EST

I forgot Equatorial Guinea, last in the IQ ranking, but richest african country per capita thanks to petrol.

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ACEPoolPlayer
7/8/2019 09:01 EST

I don't believe the Philippines has a cultural tendency toward Fatalism. If anything it's a modified version of Fatalism. Most of Filipinos believe their actions determine their fate (god fearing). In Fatalism the belief is that everything is already predetermined.


As far as the Philippine "Bahala na", I think it came from Doris Day's "Que sera, sera" or the original Italian "Quel che sara sara". In the Philippines the definition of "Bahala na" definitely means: Whatever will be will be!!! That I agree is a fatalistic idea. I personally don't see any positive consequences to that train of thought. If anything that way of thinking is the biggest reason why the average Filipino is not successful

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Asawa
7/8/2019 09:57 EST

Acol,

Most of your observations can be traced back to the root cause if "Whatever will be will be". Let me break down the things you said with commentary:


too much children, to young, poor -- IE: If I get pregnant, I get pregnant.

infrastructure (IE: If it breaks, it breaks we'll worry about that later. It works for now)

poor natural resources -- Disagree that this is actually Poor management of Natural Resources. IE: I'll use it now and worry about more later.

The incredible capacity of pinoys to poorly manage their poor financial resources -- IE: I'll worry about today, now. Tomorrow is tomorrow, and something will come along (or it won't)

I'll add to it: Corruption -- IE: The system is fixed, and that's how it is. It's inevitable and not worthy of fighting.

From my observation, the attitude comes partly from the laid-back pacific Islander cultures shared with Samoa and Hawaii. The other part comes pack from years under colonial rule or influence (Spanish, American, etc).

During those years of Colonial influence, many Filipino's had very little control or say in matters of great importance. Thus, the attitude of "accepting what comes" (when you have little power to affect outcomes) slowly settled in -- generation afte rgeneration.

To many, the attitude is akin to contentment. It might be more accurate to say that it's "making peace with the present circumstance -- whatever that circumstance may be".

Or, alternatively, "My present circumstance (known/familiar) is superior to the unknown situation which may occur if I attempt to affect the situation".

I'm not criticizing this philosophical approach to life. It's merely different from my own. The outcomes are similar to what you might see with someone who subscribes to Buddhism or pacifism. It's just a sort of Accept-icism. :-)

-Asawa

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LarryKar
7/8/2019 18:43 EST

After all the bluster and at least in my view thinly vailed racism, ( and no I won't debate, "specific cases), Asawa has hit upon the root cause. How many times have I gone off on a rant about "Another brown out" or some politician just getting out of jail for corruption turning right around and running for re-election and winning and my Gal will say, "it's the Philippines always like that."

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mootpoint20
7/8/2019 21:06 EST

I draw the line when people start explaining macro-economics by using 'Doris Day'! I'm out of here!

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Asawa
7/9/2019 10:26 EST

Lol! It's not Doris day. It was on many coat of arms in the 16th century.

Let me give some nerdy context. If you like to learn new things, this might be interesting. Otherwise... scroll on.

Soon after "Que Sera Sera" adoption as a heraldic motto, it appeared in Christopher Marlowe's play Doctor Faustus (written ca. 1590; published 1604). In Faust (Act 1, Scene 1) there is a line with archaic Italian spelling "Che sera, sera / What will be, shall be".

Then in the early 17th century, the saying begins to appear in the speech and thoughts of fictional characters as a spontaneous expression of a fatalistic attitude.

I just started using the variant above as a more palatable (mainstream) substitute phrase for "Fatalism" because the net result is:

Whatever will be will be...
It can't be helped...
It is what it is...
What's done is done...
It'll all workout...
C'est La Vie... (French)
The outcomes are predetermined...
The game is rigged...
The house always wins...
The "Man' keeps us down...
Let it go, and move on...
The Little Man can't get ahead...
There are two standards for the Rich and Poor...
Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong...
Excrement happens...
Life's a Beach and then you die...
Shou ga nai...
Petta Raddast (icelandic)...

These are all fatalistic variants of the same thought and them.

Some studies show that accepting bad things that happen can help reduce anxiety, though.

For example, a 2017 study from the University of Toronto and the University of California, Berkeley “found that people who habitually accept their negative emotions experience fewer negative emotions, which adds up to better psychological health”.

In the Berkley study, on of the lead researches said that Accepting a bad situation is the sort of “cognitive reframing” that can be beneficial.

“If you’re good at thinking of those [stressful daily] events in a way that minimizes their emotional impact on average, you do better in terms of your well-being,” she says. When you learn to let go, “you feel more at peace, and you put your resources and efforts into changing situations that you can actually change.”

When you are powerless in most aspects and have limited choices... It might be worth stepping back in frustrating situations and asking yourself:

1) What am I actually getting stressed about?

2) Can I change it? If I can’t – why is it worth getting stressed over in the first place?

3) Could this be an effective strategy to deal with frustration?

The sentiment in these fatalistic phrases might be similar to a phenomenon called social defeat, she says. It’s often explored with experiments in mice. A small mouse is put in a cage with larger, more aggressive mice, and the smaller mouse acquires an almost learned helplessness. After a territorial, maybe violent confrontation with the bigger mice, the smaller mouse often shows depression-like behaviour, resigning itself to the apparent social order in the cage.

Psycho Analysts say, "People use those coping mechanisms because it’s easier than holding on and trying hard in stressful situations. A sense of resignation also leads into some deeper understanding of yourself, and knowing your limits: a unique human ability, and that’s very important to maintaining feeling OK."

Philosophically: Although there are many things that we cannot control, we are in control of our responses. If you embrace that idea "whatever will be, will be" then it can be easier to control your natural simply control my natural response to the unfairness/discomfort of life itself.

That (in my opinion) is how Fatalism works as a coping method. If I use that as a framework (a lens) to view situations in the Philippines... many things seem to fall into place.

I hope that wasn't too boring. I like ideas, and I like sharing what I learn.

-Asawa

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Asawa
7/9/2019 10:32 EST

If you'd like to see how the same thoughts apply to Japan (a near neighbor), here is a good article on the Japanese adoption of the same concept.

I'll quote the 1st 3 paragraphs. Read the rest if it peaks your curiosity.

The Beauty And Burden Of Shikata ga nai (Stuff happens. It's how you deal with it that makes your life. )

Body:
“Shikata nai ne,” says my dad. While growing up in Japan, I can’t remember how many times he has said this to me. It is a phrase that you will hear often in Japan and it represents the underlying mentality shared among Japanese people.

“Shikata (ga) nai” or “Shou (ga) nai” is the Japanese phrase meaning “it can’t be helped.” I would personally translate the phrase as: “It is what it is. We don’t always have control over our lives.”

My father was a Japanese salaryman (office worker). He worked extremely hard to move up the ladder in the company, and we hardly saw him during weekdays. Back then if I complained to him that he wasn’t around he would respond with, “shikata ga nai”...

Keep reading at...
https://blog.gaijinpot.com/beauty-phrase-shikata-ga-nai/

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darkfader24
7/9/2019 13:20 EST

Dear Asawa - I'm so glad that you posted this. It is really interesting. As far back as I am acutely aware I've had a way of framing difficulties in a somewhat similar manner - but it is more "Comparative". I haven't done this consciously - it is just the way that my subconscious seemed to inform my conscious mind. Of course you might be able to explain it to me with great clarity. My thinking is kind of "dramatic" so please forgive the drama. If a big problem arises I think "Well, I'm not a Burn Victim, sitting in great agony in a hospital." Or "I did not just receive news that one of my children was killed in a car accident, or by a roadside IUD." "My house didn't just burn to the ground." There are thousands of potential scenarios disastrous in nature that at the moment of my difficulty far outweigh my situation. The comparison in my mind is a great coping mechanism "For Me" because it informs me that I really NEED TO BE THANKFUL that what I am going through is nothing like what it could be - so much worse. I don't think it's Fatalism. It must be something else. Do you have a Term for my line of thinking? By the way - my "Ex" has never understood how and why I think this way and she finds it exasperating.

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Asawa
7/9/2019 14:11 EST

What I think that you are describing is "Positive Psychology" which is a fancy way of saying Gratitude or Thankfulness.


Typically, positive psychology focuses on folks who are thankful for what they have. (IE: Always look on the bright side).

Sometimes about the only positive aspect of a bad situation is that things could have been far worse.

Although the concepts have been around for a long time informally (IE: Christianity, Thanksgiving, etc), most of it wasn't formalized into the mainstream until the 1952 Self-help book called "The Power of Positive Thinking". It was a Christian based way of drowning out negative thoughts with positive thoughts.

The domain of "Positive Psychology" didn't really emerge until about 1998 when Martin Seligan chose it as the theme for his term of the APA (American Psychological Association). He wanted to pivot away from a focus on a humanistic approach with an emphasis on happiness, well-being and postitivity. This was a reaction in opposition Psychoanalysis (Exploring the unconscious mind) and Behaviorism (Exploring the Nature of Humans) -- both of which empathized manipulative behavior (Things you do that keep you from adjusting to situations) and negative thinking.

Positive Psychology focuses on patterns of thinking that can foster happiness and contentment. (Like the folks who say what they are thankful every day for 12 days.)

It's not really my thing, though I do try to seek contentment and balance win all things.

As for my personal philosophy, I joke that the "Key to happiness is low expectations." where you Hope for the best, and plan for the worst. If things go well, low expectations allow you to be pleasantly surprised. If things go badly, you are fully prepared to navigate the situation. I factor in probabilities and odds to estimate the likelihood of "the worst" occuring, but I tend to account for those unlikely events by nature.

Ironically, I guess I end up exactly where you are saying, "It could have been worse". The only difference is that I already had a plan waiting for "the worst" and I half expected it to happen. I guess that makes me a highly skeptical pessimist by nature.

Also -- sorry for the broken English in some of my postings. I go back to read through once before sending, but it's hard to edit in this tiny window. I sometimes leave words/fragments as I rephrase some bits. And, I often go back to define what I mean by some of the stranger words in parenthesis. I try not to assume or presuppose what folks know, so I'm often "Captain Obvious".

Kindest Regards,
-Asawa

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darkfader24
7/9/2019 17:44 EST

Dear Asawa - Yes, I believe that when you state your personal philosophy to be "Key to happiness is low expectations." That's pretty much my mental approach to things. It works well for me. My Ex would always say that I always saw the Silver Lining in the Clouds - and it's true. Whenever somebody says to me "It can't get any worse!" I emphatically reply "Oh, yes it can!! And you better hope that it doesn't!" My mind imagines that they could be caught in a fiery car crash, hit by a train, go down in a plane, any number of scenarios - to which I say a Prayer of Thanks that it hasn't gotten any worse!! It is a very good thing to be Thankful, Grateful.

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LovePhilly
7/9/2019 22:08 EST

I am reading a book I would like to recommend that many of you have probably read but some may have not. It offers great insight on the Philippine people, culture and history.

"In Our Image" America's Empire in the Philippines, Stanley Karnow

Excellent reading.

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Asawa
7/10/2019 23:09 EST

Another good book is from the CutureShock! Series:

Culture Shock! Philippines: A Survival Guide to Customs and Etiquette
by Alfredo Roces and Grace Roces

I've mentioned it before, but that is a series with editions for every country in the world including the U.S.A.

It's written by sociologists and anthropologists for Students, Businessmen, and people moving abroad. There are chapters about every aspect of culture, beliefs, superstitions, traditions, etiquette, attitude, and aspect of the people in that country.

My wife and I read both the Philippines and the USA versions, and it was very helpful to understand the cross-cultural differences between us and our families. It helped to forestall many arguments and misunderstandings.

I recommend reading two versions because it can be hard to think outside yourself to realize your native country's beliefs (from an outsider's view). It's also good because you can see that some of the info about your own country is a little outdated or inaccurate... (which helps put the volume on the Philippines a bit more into perspective).

Good reads. Many editions. Some as cheap as $7 or you can get kindle editions for $7-$9 (though amazon devices are flaky internationally).

-Asawa

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mootpoint20
7/12/2019 11:24 EST

Quite frankly, I adhere to the philosophy of “The Life of Brian” movie, produced by Monty Python. When the rabel-rousers are finally caught by the Romans and duly punished by being crucified, the honored leader, Brian, soon recovers enough to start a medly of “Always Look On the Bright Side of Life!”--then whistles in harmony. Soon all twelve of his crucified companions join in the song, as the movie slowly fades away.

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Tsmslf
7/12/2019 21:01 EST

Quite frankly, your philosophy is off the point of this topic and you should start a personal philosophy topic with you fellow philosophers who are also far off point.

And, what, pray tell, is a "rabel-rouser"?

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Asawa
7/12/2019 21:40 EST

Ok. Back to topic.

I don't believe that IQ is the reason that folks in the Philippines are poor.

I also think that "poverty" is a side-effect of culture (IE: A manifestation of multi-generational beliefs, conventions, social practices, attitudes, values, habits, actions, and reactions that Filipinos have passed down from generation to generation).

I suspect that it's those Cultural Tendencies that lead to many to ignore systemic problems like: Poverty, Corruption, Unfilled Potholes, Preventive Maintenance, Unplanned Pregnancy, and Resource Management.

And, all the talk about books (on History, National Values, Culture, and Attitudes) were offered as mechanisms to explore those theories.

I'll leave it to you to decide where to go from here. No harm,no foul.

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surfingcebu
7/13/2019 00:45 EST

Asawa- I think the corruption is so bad that the culture could not move it even if culture shifted . Maybe what I’m saying is corruption forms the culture, not vise- versa . Just my observations .

I hope one day real progress is made . The RP is one special place with special people .

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Robertdav298
7/13/2019 01:10 EST

Lets use the big/fish small fish analogy, there is a reason why the big fish in the pond is so fat and continues to get fatter while the small fish population gets smaller and smaller.
The small fish population continually gets eaten and abused by the big fish. One day the big fish will die only to be replaced by another big fish. Thus the history of the RP.

Luckily, for todays RP they have a president that despises corruption at all levels and has vowed change is coming. The only problem is he underestimated just how corrupt the RP is and has become frustrated. D30 has even said that he will resign because he cannot win this battle. He has realized that he cannot undue decades of the "big fish" mentality.

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LarryKar
7/13/2019 02:53 EST

Robert your Big Fish Small Fish apology was excellent and you hit that proverbial nail. Same with Duarte. I don't appreciate some of his goof ball comments but he does have good intentions. Yes I think he way underestimated the corruption and drug problems and is frustrated and disheartened. Hope he stays the course as a tremendous start has been made. I pray for the Philippines that another strong hand is waiting someplace to continue. I really don't see that person in Congress right now although there are some good people there. I certainly don't see it in his kids. It's going to take someone with the good qualities and the strong will of Marcos without the faults. But not sure that creature exists.

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LarryKar
7/13/2019 02:56 EST

Analogy not apology. victimized by spell check again.

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Asawa
7/13/2019 08:22 EST

It's possible that it's a multi-generational, self-perpetuating feedback loop,

It happens in dysfunctional families, and it can happen in a country.

There were a series of colonial rulers and invaders (Spanish, American, Japan Briefly, America), and they've only been attempting to find their own way largely unfettered for about 80'ish years.

At this point it could be a Which Came first: Poverty or Behaviors (where it's a cycle of Poverty that's been the behaviors are ingrained and demonstrated from one generation to another... and repeated!)

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Tsmslf
7/13/2019 10:23 EST

APOLOGY: I think I may have accidentally posted a partially completed message. Typing is not my strong point as I leave that to philosophers and ladies.

The message stated first that the per capita GDP of the RP was just under $3,000 whereas in the US it is just under $60,000. I then suggested that the RP might take a page or two from the US economic book.

And about there, the SHTF and my partial message disappeared.

If the RP wants to continue to wallow in economic misery, then simly carry on and you will. Such allows us US losers to live well in the RP on just social security, take the better looking females as our women in our old age and enjoy the golden rule.

What's the golden rule you ask? It is:

He who has the gold, rules.

One way the RP could move forward is to smarten up. an IQ average of 86 is not good enough in the modern world, especially from the current GDP base which is ludicrously low. As for culture, according to this site's posters, the country is everywhere corrupt, the courts unfair to kanos, cops are always on the take and don't act as true cops, vendors scam aliens by a multi-level pricing scheme as do landlords, traffic is horrible, general infrastructure is lacking (e.g., electricity is not dependable etc, internet is slow and not dependable).

I doubt the existing "culture" will be helpful to the nation's economic growth. So, to my philosopher friends, try again.

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Tsmslf
7/13/2019 10:32 EST

APOLOGY: I think I may have accidentally posted a partially completed message. Typing is not my strong point as I leave that to philosophers and ladies.

The message stated first that the per capita GDP of the RP was just under $3,000 whereas in the US it is just under $60,000. I then suggested that the RP might take a page or two from the US economic book.

And about there, the SHTF and my partial message disappeared.

If the RP wants to continue to wallow in economic misery, then simly carry on and you will. Such allows us US losers to live well in the RP on just social security, take the better looking females as our women in our old age and enjoy the golden rule.

What's the golden rule you ask? It is:

He who has the gold, rules.

One way the RP could move forward is to smarten up. an IQ average of 86 is not good enough in the modern world, especially from the current GDP base which is ludicrously low. As for culture, according to this site's posters, the country is everywhere corrupt, the courts unfair to kanos, cops are always on the take and don't act as true cops, vendors scam aliens by a multi-level pricing scheme as do landlords, traffic is horrible, general infrastructure is lacking (e.g., electricity is not dependable etc, internet is slow and not dependable).

I doubt the existing "culture" will be helpful to the nation's economic growth. So, to my philosopher friends, try again.

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surfingcebu
7/13/2019 11:07 EST

asawa - there is not question the culture feeds on itself though generations . For example Canada , the lack of courage in making decisions arounds its nation is anemic and generational. They lack courage. The younger kids ar a little better with SOME courage , however , it is a lefty verse taken from the left think camps we can institutionalized education , these days . But it at least has some courage .

On the issue off Colonial rule . its bad , BUT has many good points to it as well... ask any Hong Kong'er these days . China is just waiting on them to rid themselves of the last bit of British pride and customs - them its over for them . they know this . Hence the killings and riots in HK .

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LovePhilly
7/13/2019 15:53 EST

Our experiences shape us and its important to understand the history to understand the Filipino today. During WWII people were starving even much worse than today. Anyone will lie, cheat or steal for food and it has become a part of the cultural value system.

What bothers me most is the amount of wealth the small handful will grab while those around them starve. It is believed when Marcos left office he had accumulated 20 billion dollars.

There should be no homeless there. Instead of the U.S. handing their politicians 225 million a year in aid, we should take that money and build cinder block apartments with toilets and a sink. These would cost less than 5k each and we could build about 50,000 of them each year. There would soon be no homeless (except those with mental and addiction issues like we have in the U.S.)

After there is enough shelter, we should begin sending food (again not money). You cant send them money, it never gets to the people.

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surfingcebu
7/13/2019 16:06 EST

Love, from my reading, 1890 to 1910 was a horrific time for starvation and crops for some reason in the Philippines. Masturbation existed. Ironically even the west had their famines . I debate with my lefty friends all the time, that no wage should go from the West to underdeveloped countries without stewardship. It just ends up in the pockets of the generals and the politicians. Yes, you’re absolutely correct with Marcos.

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Asawa
7/13/2019 16:06 EST

I'm going to lay out some nerdy science stuff to explain why I think IQ is more of a "Supplemental Constraint" than a "Root Cause" of poverty.

IQ (by definition) reflects the aptitude of someone to learn, retain, and apply knowledge.

Nutrition and environment do play a part in that. Increasing IQ is not a matter of trying harder. Some people are limited or reach their capacity sooner than others.

On the news, you hear of someone occasionally with a learning disability where he or she is developmentally at a level of an 8-year old. It's very likely that this person has an IQ around 30-40.

Think of IQ (as it pertains to learning) as VO2max applies to elite Athletes and their ability to efficiently process oxygen to replenish their muscles..

An athelete can train their body to be more efficient through extreme training -- such that their resting heart rate drops to 40-60 beats per minute (BPM). In that regard, V02max largely dictates the limits of a person's endurance. Similarly, IQ dictates the limits of a person's Intelligence.

Another dimension is nutrition. Without good nutrition, an person may never be able to build the muscle and cardiovascular system that allows their VO2Max to increase. The same principle applies to cognitive and neurological heath to learn, retain, and apply knowledge for IQ.

This is a revelation that I had late in life, because learning and knowledge have always come easily to me. I've been learning 1-3 major new skills, subjects, or disciplines every year since 1992. At 47, I still haven't slowed my learning or hit my limit in retention.

To understand IQ, you have to understand learning.

There are two primary ways to learn new things: Memorization and Association.

Foundational knowledge often begins with memorizing base facts. Memorization is the hardest way to learn (unless you have a high IQ).

After establishing foundational knowledge (through whatever means), association allows for easier learning by attaching it to existing information.

Your brain is a network of neurons, and it's all about establishing nodes (ideas) and pathways (connections). When you learn, it's much easier to add a new node (idea) if you can attach a pathway to an existing (idea).

The skill of forming new connections between existing ideas (on-the-fly) what most folks call "Critical Thinking" or "Ingenuity". The folks who can do this with the most agility are often called "Geniuses".

Basically, The more you know, the easier it is to learn. (And, the more you learn, the more you know).

IQ is largely the "Glass Ceiling" or "Tipping Point" where you can't learn new things... or old things slip away as fast as new ones are added.

So back to my main point... There may be limited value in focusing on IQ as an underlying cause. IQ is more likely an operating constraint -- not a primary cause.

Thoughts?
-Asawa

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surfingcebu
7/13/2019 16:09 EST

Love, I should probably explain further, what I mean by stewardship, is having the country who is giving the donations, to be the one administering it. For example, look at all the money that the United States has given Puerto Rico. Hardly any of that has gone to the people for post hurricane and post earthquake reconstruction. The same holds true for Haiti. It just makes sense , But the first world in their construction and acquisition channels and infrastructure is much more efficient and can do much more with one dollar then most in the Under developed world. It keeps the money out of the Clintons hands as well. :-)

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jackson001
7/13/2019 16:18 EST

Yes you hit the nail on the head. South Korea used to be dirt poor, but the leader brought in foreign companies with money and know how. Unfortunately, pinoy pride and stupity of electing morons for politicians rules the roost here.

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surfingcebu
7/13/2019 16:22 EST

Lol, sorry guys I meant to say “ mass starvation “ existed . Not masturbation . So sorry to offend . Voice to text error, and myself not reviewing it. I have to admit, I did have a good laugh when I saw the text after.

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surfingcebu
7/13/2019 17:52 EST

Asawa- IQ , has so many statistical, cultural, and sociological biases, that it can be barely used as a mathematical model basis point of intelligence. I have read much literature , leaning more to IQ testing is not too accurate in determining intelligence.... it makes the end result strictly almost meaningless. Meaning, that there are so many errors culturally and otherwise , it makes the IQ raw score a very Aprox figure at best. When looking at “social intelligence” , I would assume the Philippines to be very high 100-120 , in this sub quadrant. Very social and socially adaptable culture and people , in general. One of the highest I have seen around the world .

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Tsmslf
7/13/2019 21:10 EST

Despite your opinion, IQ continues to be used world-wide except where politics protects the dopes. Example? In the US, one is known as "affirmative action" without which, blacks would generally not be admitted to many schools, especially law schools.

Your "social intelligence" acclaim for Filipinos rings hollow on this board which is replete with posts about:
1. corrupt RP courts demanding money from litigants and always favoring the native vs the alien;
2. that RP people rarely repay loans;
3. that they are reckless drivers;
4. that vendors regularly overcharge aliens as do landlords;
5. scammers galore on dating sites
and on and on.
Those are the observations of other posters who live in the RP, not me as I live in L.A.
I submit that with those national characteristics, social intelligence is a laugh. It's certainly not a substitute for IQ.
Face it, RP's national IQ is similar to the average IQ of US blacks which is 85. And that's about how they perform economically.
There appear to be IQ anomalies in the Brainstats list. Mongolia is the big one to me but, in general, countries are about where you expect them to be, The US is dragged down by it black and brown population without question but is 1st in world GDP per capita for a nation of any size.

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LovePhilly
7/13/2019 23:48 EST

Yep Surf, you threw me for a minute with masturbation! lol.

Hey, I'm no IQ expert for sure but I know you are born with an IQ. It doesn't change. So gathering more knowledge doesn't change someones IQ.

I don't know if that means anything here but... lol...

All I can tell you is my wife has a B.S. Degree (and I love her much) but she doesn't know how many planets there are or how many continents there are. She knows nothing of her Philippine history.

In all fairness, there are some U.S. college graduates who know less. It's scary really.

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mootpoint20
7/14/2019 00:41 EST

In the future, try your best to ignore this fellow. He's mentally ill, and reminds me so much of a similar fellow that had this problem, Mr. Standupguy, that I no longer consider it a coincidence. Keep smiling and God bless everybody!

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surfingcebu
7/14/2019 01:36 EST

Love I agree. In Canada they get a shallow education. Mostly because the grade school teachers are under read and idealistic academics. At college they graduate with a bit more knowledge, but definitely true blue Bolshevik socialists coming out as graduates. . If you dare to challenge the socialist thought in college, well, the thought~police pay you a visit:) . And you fail college .

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mootpoint20
7/22/2019 22:04 EST

"Masturbation existed." (???) Well, with that summation by one of our more intelligent members, we should all be somewhat 'satisfied'. This discussion has now ended.

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LovePhilly
7/23/2019 05:51 EST

OK so... if I were president of the RP, this is what I would do to change things:

1. End corruption. Can't be hard and do it all at once otherwise, there would be no one left to work because it's built in to the culture. Make examples of leaders for all others to see. Fire them slowly while preaching honesty. Make a spectacle out of it.

2. Cultivate educators. This means, offer those high school kids with the highest aptitude scores a free ride if they agree to dedicate a life to teaching. Provide a campus just for these talented ones and let them live, eat and study. Then send them out with enough income and let them teach the nation. Make it the "West Point" of teachers. Currently, the educational system is simply failing the children. Also, make sure kids get good food in the schools (I honestly don't know the current status of this but if its not there, get it there. Kids cant learn if they don't eat).

This might seem oversimplified but that's where I would put my money.

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Goslig
7/23/2019 06:04 EST

LovePhilly There already is free post secondary education. Duterte just raised the salaries of teachers and police.

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Asawa
7/23/2019 11:09 EST

The problem with ending corruption is:

1) Unscrupulous folks can easily accuse honorable folks of Corruption as easily as the reverse.

2) Dismissing any accusation (even the unwarranted and frivolous accusations) creates the appearance of dual standards.

3) One method of deflecting scrutiny is to accuse so many folks that there (fairly and unfairly) such that the issues is so muddy that folks tune out.

4) People's attention spans are too short. People remember accusations, not conclusions or final outcomes.

Between Malicious False Accusations, Attention Spans, and Peoples Saturation Points for certain topics... the anti-corruption campaigns often end up being a double-edged sword that cuts away from the person screaming the loudest.

-Asawa

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LovePhilly
7/23/2019 11:12 EST

Goslig,

That is a beginning and in my estimation, only throwing crumbs at the starving. Every ounce of extra energy at a federal level should be invested in education. Those best minds should be paid three times more to teach than they would be paid to do. A small talented yet powerful force that expands the minds and talent of all the country. Education should be the focus. It really is the answer to all things.

Through this they can regain power over corruption. Stop GIVING out pieces of paper saying someone is educated. These cost nothing and are worth nothing there. Essentially, set much higher standards. Don't give anything away and allow people to fail.

Overall, raise the standards in every facet of life there.

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mootpoint20
7/23/2019 14:57 EST

Filipinos do get educated...then leave the country for America. Corruption is a vice and not exclusive to a lack of education. Centuries of colonialism have manufactured a slave mentality that can be avoided solely through a cultural renewal and marketing opportunities.

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Earnestndeavor
7/25/2019 12:08 EST

"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is a phrase often attributed to Mark Twain describing the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments. It is also sometimes colloquially used to doubt statistics used to prove an opponent's point.

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Tsmslf
7/25/2019 12:11 EST

The IQ table all saw is on the Brainstats website and is annotated with the data you seek or references to it. I never claimed any authorship of the data which I think is generally accepted as accurate. It is well known and you can find various comments on-line yourself.

As to my university credits, I have a doctorate in law and a bachelor's in philosophy, Latin and literature. I also have several decades in the computer business, both business and scientific companies and have practiced law the last 20 plus years. As you can tell, I'm not a brash youngster.

Insofar as the U.S. blacks, the 85 IQ number is accepted everywhere I have looked or seen over the years. It doesn't seem to move much and is the score for all blacks of every economic/social level. The gap, as it's called, remains despite efforts to close which is unfortunate as raising it to 100 can only help my country as a whole.

I don't know where you found me alluding to the 10th percentile of blacks or anything like that. I have no recollection of that in any of my posts. Show me if you will so that I may respond.

The stats I cited are not mine and you can look at almost any US IQ by race site to discover the over-all score of 85. That includes people like Murray, Watson and their colleagues and also their intellectual opponents. None of the stats cited is mine as I don't do that kind of analysis at all. So your supposed "qualifiers" are to the statistics of others which should be obvious from what I wrote.

The connection between IQ and economic success is another obvious point. That smart people usually do better than dumb ones is simply obvious from everyday life and that such applies to nations seems to be evident in the stats though there are some surprises such as Mongolia.

In RP terms, one can draw whatever conclusions one perceives from its IQ position in terms of its effects, if any, on the country's economic position. I think it has an adverse effect but have no clue as to the weight thereof. I offered the information to animate a discussion as to why the RP is so poor not to create an argument over IQ or anything else.

My belief is that it cannot be changed by internal forces and that the country needs to be re-invented to materially improve. Such is, at best, unlikely. That's why people who can, leave. They agree with me and go elsewhere for a better economic life. Sadly, they are probably the higher IQ folks as well. In the US, Filipinos, as a group, are the 2nd most economically successful immigrants. Indians are first. You can look it up; I did a few years back.

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Tsmslf
7/25/2019 12:31 EST

"Control"? You mean bias the results right? For some reason, you are trying to disprove the black 85 IQ number in the US. It's not my number but it is the number of any story about US IQ I've ever seen. As I wrote elsewhere, I wish it were way higher as that would be great for my country. You can never have too many smart people.

The government has and does try to do that but nothing seems to work. Affirmative action programs are obvious admissions that, today, blacks as a group are not as smart as other groups so they need preference points to be admitted to many schools. Asians, as a group, are not in favor of that as it obviously reduces their chances of admission to preferred colleges. Everybody should be against it frankly as it is racist in its core.

I have no idea how to improve black IQ scores. If economic improvement does it, fine with me. Whether well-to-do black family children score better is unknown to me. If so, that would be a plus score for the nurture side of the nature vs. nurture argument as to IQ. I've not seen studies like that though I've not looked as the question is not primary in my life. Maybe you know?

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phonedoctor1
7/25/2019 14:31 EST

why is this thread even going ? the prosperity or not of a country is NOT for us to decide

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Tsmslf
7/25/2019 16:14 EST

Nobody is asking you or us to decide Sir. The question is why do you think this unhappy situation exists. That would be the first step in rectification or at least its possibility.

Since the problem exists throughout the islands, rather than in some islands but not in others, we have a national issue. I think it has existed for ages if not forever so simple answers are unlikely. Maybe there is no answer; it may be that it is natural for these people, in this place, to always be poor. I sure hope not and so I'm trying to see what others think to determine if there are practical solutions.
I like the approach of hope and information over all others.
You now have my answer as to why I posed the question and pursue it sans fanfare but with some diligence. I'll be pleased to respond further if you have further questions.

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Asawa
7/25/2019 18:07 EST

phonedoctor1....

Why still going? By observation: boredom and the battery of equestrian's mounts.

(IE: People beating dead horses out of shear boredom)

With a sprinkling of trolling, earnest answers, some prejudice, a touch of bigotry, a few snarky replies, occasional interpersonal conflicts, nuggets of wisdom, demonstrations of differing world views, and a little ego-eccentric analysis.

Heck... your question alone drew me back in to reply. (I'm just as bad as the rest!)

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Earnestndeavor
7/25/2019 20:10 EST

Very interesting thread. I would like to suggest the following:

“THE BELL CURVE”: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life is a 1994 book by psychologist Richard J. Herrnstein and political scientist Charles Murray, in which the authors argue that human intelligence is substantially influenced by both inherited and environmental factors and that it is a better predictor of many personal outcomes, including financial income, job performance, birth out of wedlock, and involvement in crime than are an individual's parental socioeconomic status. They also argue that those with high intelligence, the "cognitive elite", are becoming separated from those of average and below-average intelligence. The book was controversial, especially where the authors wrote about racial differences in intelligence and discussed the implications of those differences.

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Tsmslf
7/26/2019 12:01 EST

Older than I? Perhaps Goslig Old Boy but, God willing, I'll be 89 in October. (Not a typo either.)

And you Kiddo?

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Earnestndeavor
7/26/2019 12:49 EST

Self- let me wish you an advance Happy Birthday. I have enjoyed reading your post and appreciate your ability to present facts, apply appropriate rules to those facts and reach a reasoned conclusion. I look forward to reading more.

Respectfully Earnie

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Tsmslf
7/26/2019 13:20 EST

Thank you for your compliments and best wishes. I know I'm blessed as I'm well enough to live alone, still lawyer full-time and most folks think I'm 65 or so. I'm 5'10", 168 lbs and healthy with no diet restrictions. Acid reflux is my main health issue easily controlled by Tums.
I take one medicine but to help with bladder control. BP is fine and pulse is low, if anything. I'm an old jock and a lifetime of it has helped me I believe.

I've learned a new word therefrom: gratitude.

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mootpoint20
7/26/2019 14:18 EST

Many years ago a young, ambitious king swept across Asia conquering every nation in his path until he faced the Ganges River and suddenly leaders of that nation came out, met him, and warned him that their myth declared only the man who untied the famed Gordian Knot could ever conquer their country. The 33 year old iconoclast leader got off his horse, removed his sword and hacked open the rope, then marched into India.

(i.e. Statistics don't lie, but statisticians do. Most jails are filled with minorities which proves what?)

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Tsmslf
7/26/2019 16:16 EST

Logically, it could support the theory that minorities are not too intelligent as so many of them are caught and locked up whereas the majority types appear to get away with crime. But it's your hypothetical and doubtless you have the answer to your own riddle.
As to the Gordian Knot fable, you might say that Alexander Trumped that issue. How deplorable of me.

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darkfader24
7/26/2019 16:39 EST

Dear Tsmslf - Wow !!! Congratulations. I guess at your Beautiful age you are quite fit - as here you are - in the arena - still wrestling with all of us young-ins. Amazing. As to Moots' point of the majority of the jailed people being minorities - I am not arguing anything - just thinking out loud: Maybe it's so many factors - being around bad influences, being desperate for money (compared to the wealthy), having no power compared to the wealthy (Bill and Hillary and many of the powerful can get away with murder with no apparent consequences). I make no excuse for criminals, no matter their position in the societal strata. Wrong is wrong, and hurting others is still hurting others. But the idea that there are more lower class people in prison due to lack of intelligence..... I dunno - maybe lack of wisdom, or experience, or power. I just don't know....

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Earnestndeavor
7/26/2019 17:12 EST

“most jails are filled with minorities which proves what?)“

That minorities commit more crimes?

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TheIslandGeneration
7/26/2019 17:50 EST

Tsmslf------
Different subject then the title but to fight your acid reflux I have found Prilosec or generically Omeprazole can provide extremely good relief and even heal minor ulcers. Nexium was the predecessor to Prilosec and they only reformulated it to add magnesium trihydrate make Nexium and charge insurance companies full price again. Both of these are proton pump inhibitors tell your stomach to stop making acid versus antacids such as Tom's that reduce acid by adding a buffer.

Although it may be hard to get in the Philippines Alka-Seltzer gold is one of the fastest acting stomach acid removers. Unlike regular Alka-Seltzer which contains aspirin Alka-Seltzer heartburn and the better Alka-Seltzer Gold dilute acid rapidly.

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Tsmslf
7/26/2019 19:55 EST

Many thanks; I'll try them. It's sometimes painful and I've had upchuck issues at home when trying to sleep lying down. Now have pillows to sleep semi-upright if it arises.

Yet I'm vertical which is the key point.

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Tsmslf
7/26/2019 20:01 EST

I think it's true that along with low intelligence, comes a recklessness and impulsive nature which tends to lead to bad conduct. Plus some have little to lose. Lots of things I would have liked to have done over my life but I deferred due to the likely result to me. I had and have family, career, friends and pride in my reputation which I would not throw away for a temporary pleasure.
The totality of these pressures likely pushed many over the edge into the abyss.

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Tsmslf
7/26/2019 20:03 EST

That's clear, at least in the USA. It's unfortunately inarguable. The FBI crime stats plus numerous articles validate your statement. Sad but true.

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Tsmslf
7/26/2019 20:13 EST

Goslig Old Boy, we haven't heard your age. 'Fess up. You're just a kid compared to some of the more august of us.

It's okay up here, especially compared to the alternative. Some prefer to just die. My Dad lived with me at the end years of his life and often said: I just want to die, go to Heaven and go dancing with your Mother.

I'm cool with age as its effects have been minimal; slower in physical things, no more tennis or jogging which I really miss for the surrounding lifestyle of tennis and the senior tournaments at al.

Slower's often better too as my recently departed Pinay gf will attest and she's a truly warm 40 and knows my age et al. But, as Mom used to say, plenty of fish in the ocean and, as usual, Mom was right. My parents get smarter as I get older.

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mootpoint20
7/26/2019 23:13 EST

I'm shocked to find out Alka-Selzer has aspirin...I'm allergic to that,,.(violently). Anyway, 80 percent of all American-incarcerations are men who came from single parent homes. I hope that ends the argument.

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ACEPoolPlayer
7/27/2019 07:16 EST

Tsmslf,
I used to big a big tennis player myself. When I was younger I went to tennis camp at Williams College where Clarence Chaffee coached (Chaffee had over 50 National Senior Tennis titles from the age of 70-86). When I lived in the Philippines I played several times a week. The shell courts are easier on the legs. Unfortunately I've had a completely torn ACL for a number of years. I plan to have it repaired this year. I no longer play singles but enjoy doubles. In the Philippines you'll find many men in the 70's and 80's playing doubles and older gentleman even playing triples. I'm not sure if they play triples any place else in the world.

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Tsmslf
7/27/2019 09:28 EST

75 is quite young to me. No, I'm not in the RP. I live in Arcadia CA about 15 miles East of downtown LA and adjacent to Pasadena.

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Tsmslf
7/27/2019 09:35 EST

I can't play at all now as I would fall if I tried to move quickly or change footwork fast. Played at Riviera Tennis Club in Pacific Palisades for nearly 40 years. Sorely miss the whole scene as there is almost always someone to chat with at a club and Riviera is an outstanding country club in a super location.

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Tsmslf
7/27/2019 20:40 EST

That doesn't sound too smart to me either. But we already know that about these folks in general.

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Robertdav298
7/28/2019 04:56 EST

GOSLIG.......thank you, we finally got a a real post concerning IQ and why the RP is so poor........crab mentality and me first.....that is part of it for sure.

Something to consider concerning IQ....a child born to parents that work in the sugar cane fields for 100ph per day and are happy to have that job......why? Because their parents worked there as well........now what kind of IQ do you think that child has?
I could give you hundreds of these types of scenarios.

Question, do you think the RP government cares about the IQ of this child or his parents? HELL NO ......and that is one reason why the RP is a poor country.

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surfingcebu
7/28/2019 09:41 EST

Robert - I understand your thinking - and agree with what you say .The 'small world' thing is alive and well in the RP . BUT , where I live part of the year on Vancouver Island , Most of the families are generational . I know a guy at the pool who is 3rd or 4th generational logger . all he knows is - chopping down trees . SO many like him in Socialist Canada. He is a terrific guy but I bet his IQ is 90 and he has a really small world . I think he said he went to Victoria once when he was 7 ...he's 28(?) now . SO , I think what you say is true BUT its other places too not unique to the RP .

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Robertdav298
7/28/2019 22:24 EST

SURF.....exactly...it is not unique to the RP BUT saying it is not UNIQUE TO RACE.....is absurd........of course I understand there will be exceptions.

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mootpoint20
7/28/2019 23:04 EST

I've never read so much confused rhetoric in my life. I.Q.? Somebody here said he plays tennis on sea-shells! That's plain stupid. I don't know how anybody follows these 'trains of thoughts' and makes sense about it. At least not the smart ones.

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Tsmslf
7/28/2019 23:33 EST

The sea shells court is someplace in the RP per another poster but your allegations are unsupported opinion. No citations, just your opinion which is permissible but unpersuasive. I actually thought most postings here were rational whether I agreed or not.

Perhaps you could cite a few examples to illustrate your opinion. I think that would be helpful.

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ACEPoolPlayer
7/29/2019 12:23 EST

Moot, obviously you have never played tennis.... Getting use to those moot point responses!!!

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ACEPoolPlayer
7/29/2019 12:34 EST

Crushed shell courts respond like clay but after you hit the ball you can slide. The ball bounces up ( not like other hard surfaces where it slides) which makes it good for ground strokes and longer rallies. The crushed shell is on a bed of rolled compressed sand. It easy on your knees, ankles and feet but could be painful if you fall.

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TheIslandGeneration
7/29/2019 15:13 EST

MootPoint20

The Alka-Seltzer I was recommending which is called Alka-Seltzer Gold it Does Not Contain Aspirin. Alka-Seltzer Gold and Alka-Seltzer heartburn are specifically made for heartburn issues. Regular Alka-Seltzer although buffered could really aggravate an ulcer or Gerd acid reflux. Why Alka-Seltzer has two heartburn products is somewhat interesting the gold version is actually imported from Germany but available at local Walmart in the states. https://www.alkaseltzer.com/products/gold/

Mark

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mootpoint20
8/3/2019 20:42 EST

Thank you. (But how do you know the water you use is good?)

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Earnestndeavor
8/6/2019 12:31 EST

Gosling:

“This forum is about expats liv ing in the Philippines not African American IQ.”

You are correct and self’s post regarding IQ and poverty was an attempt to address poverty in the RP which affects all expats living in the RP. and was on topic. There is a large body of evidence pointing out the difference in economic achievement between those countries and communities with low IQs and those with high IQs. These are facts and to attack the poster with a charge of racism is a complete cop-out. You my friend are the one to highlight the African American aspect and then rather than offer facts to rebut the IQ/economic theory you resort to charges of racism. The problem of poverty will not be solved by denying facts that don’t support your political agenda.
I find this topic very interesting and encourage all to offer their thinking.

Respectfully,Earnie

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LovePhilly
8/6/2019 14:03 EST

Earnie,

Well written.

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Earnestndeavor
8/6/2019 16:01 EST

Gosling-
First let me say thank you for your thoughtful response as I very much appreciate a civil discussion of issues. On the issue of economic achievement and IQ
I think I can safely say we have reviewed similar data and reached different conclusions and I certainly respect your opinion.
Regarding political opinions I think we have to accept a certain amount of overlap since what’s happening in our home country often impacts our quality of life in the RP.
One last point, I think we should all remember we are guest in the PR. and our opinions on how Filipinos run their country is not only not welcome but oftentimes resented.
Respectfully,Earnie

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Tsmslf
8/6/2019 16:04 EST

My comment as cited is totally accurate and nobody denies its accuracy. All tests, IQ, LSAT and more demonstrate significant differences among races in intelligence. Asians are smarter than whites who are smarter than browns and blacks. That's not racist; it is simply fact.

There are few, if any, brown or black countries which are 1st world whereas there are many white and Asian countries like that.

I don't know why that is but it is true. All know that. You just need to notice.

People put up with a lot of hassles to live in the RP. You can read about those hassles on this forum where they are writ large every day. Expats put up with it for cheaper living, plenty of available ladies, having an RP spouse but few other reasons. Masses of Filipinos would head to the US or the West if they could get a visa.

Your "racist" argument is typical these days as it's used frequently by those who cannot prevail in discussion. You have never met me, don't know anything about my life and have zero basis to hurl "racist" at me. Thus, you have no basis for your use of the R word. Were you to review my prior posts, you will find no personal invective as such tends to diminish one's position at the very least and informs much about the author.

Fellow readers may make whatever they wish of these facts.

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darkfader24
8/6/2019 20:23 EST

Dear Gosling - I need to ask some questions regarding some things you said - and I am sincerely curious about these things. "I posted that about the 13 trillion USD in Natural Gas is under a swamp in North Cotobato where there are too many NPA & Abu-Sayyef to get at it." Wow ! This is crazy. The RP is financially desperate for these resources! Is it Red Tape holding it up? Is it cool or not cool to talk about it - since some say that we should not discuss RP Politics? What does "..... too many NPA & Abu-Sayyef to get at it." mean?

"Military action is required. Gold mines are floundering on start up in Compostela Valley because of red tape. Get rid of corrupt pork barrel Philippine politicians." I have seen it written here by people that they have Gold Mines that are locked up, basically, and in "Limbo". What's that all about? It seems that the money from these resources is desperately needed. If it's not utilized - talk about shooting yourself in the foot!!

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Goslig
8/6/2019 21:28 EST

darkfader24 Don’t attend political demonstrations here in the Philippines, but Philippine politics is OK to discuss on this forum in my opinion . I am a member of the DU-30 Facebook group and post there too. DU-30 is building a major roadway through the middle on Mindanao in an effort to develop this Natural Gas resource and secure the area from terrorists. As for the traditional red tape delays by government officials, these are usually manurers to get bribes particularly when investments involve foreigners. This is not true of everywhere in the Philippines, but from our own experience, we have waited 8 years to get our land title which finally came with newly added encumbrances preventing us form selling for 10 years. The RTO official we were dealing with granted clean titles to 99% of other land owners nearby for those who had notarised Final Deeds of Sale (where there wasn’t a foreigner involved). We are the last one without a clean title since we are being set up for a bribe, and told the exact amount (aka the skin tax), but then that official then retired leaving our title encumbered and back in court. Filipino’s are xenophobic towards Westerners which I believes is due to a feeling of economic inferiority.. The Philippines has the highest murder rate of environmentalists in the world, and none of those murdered (sometimes whole families including children) were Filipino. No arrests and only false promises to investigate . Recently a automobile shop gouged us out of 9850 pesos, only cleaned car parts they said they replaced, did work we didn’t authorise and kept the remainder of our synthetic motor oil. I left an appropriate detailed Google review about their shop and will take it down should they offer a way to resolve it.

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surfingcebu
8/6/2019 21:42 EST

Goslig/Dark - With the political demonstrations that I've witness, they are really interesting and peaceful, BUT I dont stay Lon Gand stand a block away and scatter after 5-8 minutes of listening ,. Just too dangerous in the RP .

As for car repairs. Get a time they are retiring it ... Then drive the car in . DONT LEAVE at all when you have your car there .
Goslig , how do you even know you go the synthetic oil you ordered and gave him ? He probably poured in into another jug, and gave you back a heel in a jug . Its a license to steal at most repair shops of ANY Type in the RP if you are not hovering over them . ...sadly

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draks
8/6/2019 22:14 EST

I have taken many IQ tests admittedly online, my last red was 125 and others slow as 80 , so am Ivan genius or a dimwit. I have never had a 'PROPER' IQ test. Why would I bother? I ran a successful business for 30 years, owned Mercs BMW and Porsches. I now live in the Philippines have a fantastic 4 bed house, a 1967 mustang gt500 a 67 Camaro, Toyota Fortuna, 2018.
I left school when I was 14 I could read write and do some arithmetic. But I made very good money, not bad for a low IQ dumbassed.
It's up to the individual to better himself take risks and work bloody hard, more difficult if you are a poor Filipino but not impossible. IQ does not make keep break a nation. Snobbery I think.

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darkfader24
8/6/2019 23:55 EST

Gos - I do not intend to go to ANY Demonstrations at all. This is THEIR Country. I will be a guest. I am an American. America is MY Business. Not a Filipino's. I feel honored and privileged to even be allowed in. Regarding your land acquisitions, I am sorry that there is such an open display of obvious prejudice - which a Filipino would never tolerate in America - but the RP is it's own story. That's what cracks me up. Foreigners come to the USA and DEMAND fair treatment, Free Healthcare, the Right to Vote, etc etc etc. We go to their Countries and have to keep our mouths shut and our eyes down. It's Bulls#@t - but Life isn't Fair, is it? In regards to car shops - this is exactly why I plan to buy new from a Toyota Dealer. Great Product with a set price - even though I will have my Filipina Wife go in by herself and do the negotiating. I will also only have the Dealer do the servicing. I know that it doesn't guarantee no price gouging and cheating, but I stand a better chance of them actually having the proper parts and factory trained Techs. There is a Toyota Dealer that I used to go to here in Central California - and they cheated me all the time - and price gouged me. Here in the USA!! So I guess they could do it there. Oh well, what's a Fella to do.

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darkfader24
8/7/2019 00:38 EST

Draks - Sweat equity, Common Sense, and Business Sense. It trumps IQ. I have known several people with Sky High IQs that had very little of Life's Wisdom. I prefer Wisdom to IQ any day. I am not that smart. I do "OK" if I apply myself really hard to a task. What I have is God Given Talent - and I have honed that talent with a lot of hard work. Many things do not come to me naturally. I took a no name talent and knocked the Rolling Stone's "Voo Doo Lounge" out of the #1 Slot in Europe in the summer of 1994. I trained the guy who has 10 Grammys for Beck, Foo Fighters, Radio Head, Outkast, Paul McCartney. Trained him when he was 14, 15, 16 in Tucson, AZ. He credits me for a lot of his success. Now, He is intelligent! I have been nominated for 2 Grammys. I have been a consultant on several very big albums. I make records sound really, really good. But I ain't all that bright. You have to use what The Good Lord gives ya. If you're a Genius and waste it on laziness, drugs and alcohol, gambling, what have you, it doesn't really matter, does it?

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darkfader24
8/7/2019 01:26 EST

Goslig - "Driving here is insane. Sort of like playing competitive basketball without rules." Very descriptive - and very funny. Made me bust out laughing! Several questions for ya: 1) What's "LTO" mean? 2) I have had 11 Toyotas including 4 ForeRunners and a Celica Supra (Smokin' Hot Car). I currently have a Ford Fusion - before that I had a Ford Escape. Great vehicles. Easily as good as any Toyota, but don't get the gas mileage that a Toyota Wigo would get - although my Fusion gets up to 45 miles MPG on the Highway in ideal conditions. But only around 20 MPG around town. I would be open to getting a new Ford if the price was right. 3) Sounds like buying used has too many hassles and pitfalls with additional expenses getting it all smogged and tested. Too "Iffy". 4) The Front & Rear Dashcam sounds like a Brilliant Idea - is this to record the other Terrible Driver to prove your innocence - and so that you won't lose your license? I hope that it works. I have read on this Forum that if you're a "Kano" it doesn't matter your innocence. The Pinoy is ALWAYS the innocent one - because of "Nationalism". Has this been the case in your experience? Have you heard about this prejudicial situation? From what I am gathering it would not surprise me in the least. Almost daily I question the wisdom of moving to the RP - although there seems to be so many good reasons TO move there.

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darkfader24
8/7/2019 18:09 EST

Gos - Thank you for all the very valuable information. A Civilization is only as Strong and Sophisticated as the way people choose to behave, rules or no rules. Since rules can be broken, it's up to the upbringing of a Society's children so that they understand the value of polite and courteous behavior. If people care for each other and look out for each other you will have a strong and prosperous Nation. If, as you say, the Society / Civilization is built on a "Me First At All Times" Foundation - that Nation will be weak and not prosperous. I believe this might be the RP's REAL PROBLEM, not so much IQ. But that's just my opinion.

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mootpoint20
8/8/2019 13:34 EST

According to Arnold Toynbee: "Duty leads to Hard work, responsibility, wealth. Wealthy leads to luxury and idle time and decadence. Decadence leads to cultural collapse." (Ancient Greece, Roman empire, French empire and perhaps others.)

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Tsmslf
8/8/2019 15:26 EST

Please recall that I've stated more than once that IQ is not THE problem but A problem for the RP's economic position. Nobody really knows but, since correlation is frequently though not necessarily causation, I thought I'd ask the forum's opinion. The opinion is decidedly mixed mostly because posters don't focus on the actual question. I suppose that's the nature of a beast like a forum though separating wheat from chaff is, at best, tiresome.

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bang4dabuck
8/9/2019 07:04 EST

Way, WAY too many people, Catholic church ???

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darkfader24
8/9/2019 17:13 EST

Dos - a good dose of humor is always welcome! Personally, I know that I am full of S%$#.

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marshmallow14
8/11/2019 20:30 EST

As a background, I am a Filipino in my mid-30s, did Engineering and MBA in one of the Philippine's top universities and currently doing my Law Dip in Australia. I speak 4 human languages, can connect the dots to a few more and well-versed in at least 5 computer programming languages. I have been a lurker on this forum for a month now as I am gathering information and following experiences from others which will be helpful for my "retirement plan" which will not happen until about 20 years from now.

I don't take offence on the question but actually find it interesting that most of the replies in the thread missed out one important thing.

After World War II, the Philippines adopted a US-style education system with emphasis in production/manufacturing. Over 300 years of Spanish occupation, we had in our genes ingrained the "hacienda system" where at all cost, please "the masters". This type of approach has not changed much even after half a century.

Just check any primary or secondary Filipino student books particularly in the public school system and you will be disgusted how outdated it is. Kids are taught to memorise entire lengths of pages and answers. It's usually taboo in the classroom to challenge the answers even if they're wrong. The teacher is always right (or God) and very rarely admit any mistakes or they don't know anything. This mindset and training makes the Filipinos very good followers with an always "Yes Sir" mentality even if they actually meant no. We're not designed to be freethinking and radical ideas are seldom tolerated in "normal" school. For those of us here who have been to the Philippines and have spent some time, you will notice that many at times, Filipinos just stand and doing nothing. But give them orders and they will do it right away. That's just how society is programmed. The upside though is we do our best to please any master or boss. I emphasised "normal" because there are still schools out there that do well - many private and specialised state schools/colleges/universities.

Having this system of education is of benefit to the powerful Catholic church (I'm born and raise Catholic myself) to enforce sheep mentality and the corrupt people in government who are rarely challenged. Family planning is always opposed as these keep many Filipinos in unending poverty in guise of "value each life". Most Filipinos see the corrupt system and the church's meddling with state affairs as status quo.

The current president is hated by both the powerful people, corrupt government offices and the Catholic church because he's exposing these flaws in the open. He's encouraging the Filipinos to think and demand for their rights. In many instances in live TV, he is asking the Filipinos to slap any government office who asks them for money and make a scene. His ways may be unorthodox but for me, that's the only way that Filipinos can wake up from this deep, telenovela-induced, euphoric hibernation.

In Australia and other western countries, kids in their early years are encouraged to be critical thinkers and to push the why's and the how's. After moving in Australia, I was both shocked of how far behind our country was on this area. Another thing that took me a while to adjust was the way my child was graded. They were not numbers against the other students (reminds of production quotas and KPIs) but on how well they improve themselves since the last assessment. I liked it, I liked it a lot.

If the Philippines would overhaul the education system to keep up with the rest of the world, promote critical thinking and embed to the young minds that it's ok to ask questions, I'm sure the KQ or IQ scores would rise by leaps and bounds.

So the next time you encounter a Filipino, they're not "bobo" or less smart, they're just deprived by the Philippine education system, designed by dinosaurs, of the right tools and mindset in order to thrive in this highly globalised world.

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surfingcebu
8/12/2019 00:03 EST

Marshmallow- no more “lurking “ . Interesting thoughts. It’s what I figured , education and culture. Believe me , Canada is subject to the same forces . Our culture is in jeopardy in many ways these days , and our higher education is weak and politicized by the Liberal left .

Thanks for your insights sir.

Ps - a friend of mine ,son , is going to Bond university in Australia soon . Heard of it ? Canadian universities would not except them. He had a A Average. They don’t except too many white males, with blue eyes, and blond hair anymore. Sad to say. They prefer non-Canadians paying me quadruple the amount and being visibly very very different.

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LarryKar
8/12/2019 04:16 EST

"I have been a lurker on this forum for a month now as I am gathering information and following experiences from others which will be helpful for my "retirement plan""
Now that the Marshmallow Lurker has come clean hope he is not planning on funding his retirement with the reward money Filipinos get for turning in " dissident" Foreigners with loose lips.

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Robertdav298
8/12/2019 04:34 EST

LURKER, while you are correct about the education SYSTEM and the corrupt RP, you forgot to mention that there are numerous countries just like the RP, in fact all of Central America, South America, Mexico and Africa.
If you followed the posts closely you will see that most of the expats are smart enough to discern the outside world and the RP.

I am glad you made it out of the RP, what are your plans to help this failing system?

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darkfader24
8/12/2019 07:25 EST

Dear Marshmallow - You are so right - and obviously can speak well to the current situation in the RP. However, you will notice that many of us raised in "this highly globalized world" are fleeing the Utopia that we have created in the West - simply because it is not Utopia! The RP does not have a monopoly on corruption. Trust me - the USA and all of the Western World is full of it. And full of something else that comes out of Bulls. Brother - we are running to your 3rd World Philippines cuz there are some old fashioned values there that we treasure. Yeah, we have a lot of "Free Thinking" Westerners - and we have a mess. And the more "Free Thinking" many of these people think they have become, the more sheep-like they have become also. They are lazy and follow whatever they hear from the Mainstream News Media. Even the Media itself is full of Lazy "Journalists" - if you can call them that. I have heard montage after montage in which, upon Playback, all you hear come out of their mouths are the exact same words and catch phrases. You switch channels and they are all Parroting the exact same thing. If one of them actually does some real research and falls out of "Lockstep" with the rest of the pack - they are eviscerated and left bleeding on the ground - fired and without work instantaneously. This is merely one example. If one is merely friendly and shoots a nice smile toward a Western Woman these days, be careful that you don't end up in Handcuffs - not from her - but from the Police. The #MeToo Movement, like Black Lives Matter (BLM), is completely out of control. As in all things, POWER is the name of the game. That could mean Power in Washington DC, or in the Classroom, or for a woman sitting on a Public Bus. Whoever thinks they can get the upper hand and wrestle you to the ground, that's the person that very well might do so. I am not advocating to keep Filipnos in ignorance, merely saying if the Western World's "Pandora's Box" is opened in the Philippines, corruption and problems will not go away - but may easily increase in a more sophisticated way!

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ACEPoolPlayer
8/12/2019 09:21 EST

Marshmallow,
Long but great post. I hope others have the patience to read the whole thing rather than just make silly comments and a joke of it. I agree with almost everything you wrote.


I think bobo Filipinos can be put into the same category as black Americans in the past. It wasn't necessarily that they weren't as smart but more of the way they were raised in their culture and way their minds were trained to think. Don't get me wrong their are still a lot of bobo westerners and expats today for various reasons.


I agree, it would have to start with an overhaul of the education system. Although born and raised in the U.S. I spent a number of years in the Philippine education system in medical school. Unfortunately that may never happen. Schools and Universities only hire their own graduates. The cycle continues. The government would have to bring in someone from the outside to make changes. It's very difficult for something like that to happen in the Philippines unless it was someone like yourself who left, learned and wanted to come back (a la Jose Rizal).



I think you made a mistake using the word "lurking." Lurking is hanging/hiding around quietly presenting a threat waiting to ambush. Observing probably would have been a more appropriate word. Anyway welcome to our forum. I'm sure you have a lot of insight that could be beneficial to everyone.

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surfingcebu
8/12/2019 12:02 EST

Ace - its much like the Canadian Education System currently , Very inward looking . I think this is a symptom of protectionism and "institutionalized education" . The results are less than convince fir me , you and Marshmallow I gather .
there is nothing I would like to see , than to have market ready education for the kids of the RP . I try and give 'guest lectures' to schools and groups when I am invited ... but its quite surprising that they would rather insulate themselves , than to have guest lecturers in ....as thins generates questions of what they have been tough about law and economic ( my academic background) . I really enjoy doing guest lectures at the local elementary schools about Canada, USA, Trade and basic law . The kids are so much fun - zest for learning is a understatement . They don't get many guest speakers so its something different ...although timid to ask questions at first , they open up fats and start to learn and laugh quickly . Smart kids in general ! . I get a real blast out of it and most elementary teachers appreciate the break it give them for a couple of hours .

I also Donte book sand notebooks and pens and pencils and other tools of learning to my local school around .Sent via a separate box when I'm there . This is appreciated and provides more up to date books for them to read from the library and basic learning tool . Its amazing some kids will use the same notebook for the WHOLE YEAR , I hope my donations and lectures to them sparks interest in one or two kids ...eventually . :)

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surfingcebu
8/12/2019 13:01 EST

Dark - great post - you forgot ATIFA , gaining power everyday ( our NPA ? ) and the "WOKE" movement .

Totally agree with the Western Women - TOXIC ! Train striking up a casual conversation Like "good morning , how are signs ? " on the Subway . This will get you eyed by the security and so forth for just being friendly with a western women in a larger city . I just simply ignore them ... best that way . Im not alone either ...I think around 60% (and growing) of the guys now view them as trouble . SO , they end up dating themselves - in lesbian groups .... backed by media and campuses as being "just fine and 'hip' " . Marshmallow - things are not Utopia in the west , destruction is near I think .

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mootpoint20
8/12/2019 16:27 EST

Surfingcebu is right. American culture and especially American women are crazed, now. It's imploding. Everything has changed fast through digital technology. It also goes without saying education by papacy is indoctrination and authoritarian.

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LarryKar
8/12/2019 18:37 EST

Marshmallow can we start over? Ace was correct your choice of the word " lurking" set me on edge. And being a world class over-reactor I reacted badly. Lurking carries the idea of
" sneaking" about for bad purpose. Again sorry.

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marshmallow14
8/12/2019 19:25 EST

Thanks surfingcebu. It's an observation from within the system and coupled with some history readings from books as far as 1901.

When I was a high school freshman in one of the state schools in Mindanao, our science teacher ( doctor's degree, international research fellow, the whole lot) came to class and first thing she said is - "I want you to be critical thinkers. Anything I say to you, try to research, validate and don't take it at face value". That statement stucked with me until now.

Yes, I have heard about Bond Uni of sunny QLD but I'm in the state of Victoria. International education in Australia is a multi-billion dollar industry and overseas students have their own class design, usually in their own (overseas) groups, and pay, as you say, quadruple the amount than that to the domestic. But that's a whole topic of its own. :)

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marshmallow14
8/12/2019 19:39 EST

Good morning to you too LarryKar.

It's far from it. I always keep my mind open and respect to the wisdom of people who have been there. Retirement is a once in a lifetime stage and I don't want to stuff it up just because of pride.

I enjoy reading through expat conversations as they have different perspectives and can shed insights to a topic from varying lenses.

And of course, forums are just one of the sources of information that I gather from.

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mattinnorfolk
8/12/2019 20:05 EST

Robert, as usual you are incorrect on this as the Philippines is 77 in the world on fertility, and while Central America minus Mexico is still bad Colombia is 141 and Usa is 142. I know Colombia very well and while strongly Catholic, they keep them away from politics now. You're racist and homophobic bias always shine though so I give you credit for at least being open about your intelligence, or lack, thereof.. Go watch My Three Sons, beat up a Ladyboy or watch the white men slaughter Native Americans in a movie and it should perk you up! Why is your dislike so strong if people have color? Filipino's do have color to you know. Smile!! Diversity is a beautiful thing as Mcdonalds (White Men) needs competition.

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marshmallow14
8/12/2019 20:39 EST

Good morning Robertdav298.

Many of the countries or areas you have mentioned have two things in common - culture of impunity (systemic corruption) and a former Spanish colony.

A lot of the bad habits we now have in the Philippines were inherited during the Spanish era - cockfighting, gambling, mañana habit (procrastination), possibly the Filipino time (procrastination? still), colonial mentality (everything Filipinos are inferior including skin color), "bahala na" habit (trust the Divine Creator on everything), "palakasan system" (must know someone in the system to get something done) which naturally leads to showing your appreciation (falls under graft) and so on.

I would not have left the RP if it were up to me but we all have different circumstances and as a young head of a family, my priorities have changed. I became more conservative in my views and plans as stuffing myself up also includes everyone in my family. But half my heart is still in RP and all I can do for now is to plan, plan, plan.

To be honest, I don't have a solution for the entire system. I'm just a mere number in the 105+ million statistics. But I have done something before that had ripple effects up until now.

Almost 10 years ago, during my mid 20s, I started bringing my city friends to the countryside to see what children in far-flung places have to go through just to attend school. It's early 2000 at that point and my friends could not believe that kids still have to walk 3-5 kilometers barefoot and sometimes without breakfast just to attend class.

As an overview, I grew up in the city from an average household. My grandparents on both sides were from farming communities in central and western Visayas and usually spend my summers for two months with them. I have seen poverty, injustice and discrimination from an early age but what could an 8 year old do? I've eaten with friends and relatives who only have salt to go with their rice to get by the day.

In one of those trips, I asked the head teacher, also the principal, the top reasons why children skipped school. I was surprised with the answer and that was lack of food, not necessarily money. In those communities, many families have only primary or secondary education and in Philippine harsh terms, completed "nothing". Rarely do they send their kinds to attend college or university.

In that school district, there were 16 schools and the school I checked was ranked 3rd from the bottom. For the next few years, I built a system to help the school. I gathered support (e.g. 3 cups of coffees could feed an entire school for a day) and had most our company clients (US, Australia, etc) joined in as well. The program has been running for about 8 years now, well after I left the Philippines.

Here are some of the key elements in that system -

Problems:
- some parents don't want their kids attend school as they need them to help in the field instead
- kids don't want to go to school because they have not had breakfast and looking at no lunch
- kids don't have money to buy lunch on something

Solution:
- provide daily lunch in extra large servings (could easily feed 4 people) which includes vegetables, protein (meat or fish) and cooked rice

Effect:
- parents are very keen to send kids to school because the entire family can have one free meal each day
- student attendance rose from 80%+ to 99.x% after a year
- school's ranking in the district is now in the top 5 out of 16

Problem: How funds for the project is to be managed and we don't want one person taking control of it
Solution: Utilized the existing Parent-Teacher group so transparency from both ends are kept.
Effect: Representation from all levels in the school and the teachers meant less distrust


Problem: Firewood for cooking used to be sourced from a supplier and was added expense
Solution: Ask the head teacher to ask kids walking to school to grab a branch or one stick on the way to school
Effect: In one week, we filled an entire storage room with firewood. The funds are also stretched after writing off firewood as a daily expense.

Problem: How can you make such system last and get the community engaged?
Solution: I encouraged the community and parents who are doing gardens to plant vegetables and be the priority to sell to the school
Effect: community loved the program, parents are earning more as there are no middlemen and the school fund is stretched because we're buying at way lower prices. Additional plus are freshness and access to a range of vegetables

Problem: Staff that used to cook were volunteers from the parents group (they also get a share of their lunch) but commitment are hit and miss
Solution: Hire one part-time worker to cook (someone who needed the most help in the community) and parent volunteers are still welcomed
Effect: Consistency in the service was upheld

Kids, parents, communities and even local barangay leaders were motivated. The system is practically run by them and it's a closed-loop in design where if one slows done, the rest helps push it back. It's an informal system I that started and I could say it's sustainable with the checks and balances in place.

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marshmallow14
8/12/2019 21:07 EST

Hi LarryKar, no worries at all mate.

Actually, i used the term "lurker" as it's a definition I'm used to and also recognized by Cambridge dictionary (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/lurker)

noun [ C ]: someone who reads the messages in a chat room without taking part

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marshmallow14
8/12/2019 21:28 EST

surfingcebu - In my previous life (not so long ago), I was in a position to decide for the direction of our small company of 100+ workers there in the RP. As coming from a university with a good reputation, what I frowned on was the systematic exclusion of students from the smaller and less-known colleges.

I had to remind the HR that we give opportunities based on the exam results, potentials and school is irrelevant.

Two batches of IT on-the-job trainees - from my university and the other from regional state colleges from poor backgrounds. They were assigned real-world projects with a regular staff partner. That worked two ways as we can spot potential candidates from the trainees and allow us to assess the regular staff's leadership and mentoring skills.

I was happy and surprised that the latter group did not disappoint even though they have been deprived of technology for most of their lives. Yet the drive to learn and openness to new challenges were there but the privileged group had grunts due to the additional workloads. :)

And I totally agree with you that with little help, motivation and "fair go" to the less fortunate kids, they have a good fighting chance to be what they want to be in life.

One time, we did a donation drive to another deserving school. We provided boxes of school supplies for all students which could easily last for a year. However, we attached a condition that the release of the school supplies will be gradual throughout the year instead. This takes out the worry of running out of school supplies in the middle of the year for the kids. We came back the year after for another donation drive and there were still some surplus supplies which we expected.

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draks
8/12/2019 21:51 EST

I absolutely loved what marsh mellow said. He has first hand experience of the education system here, he speaks from experience. Made a lot of sense to me

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Robertdav298
8/13/2019 00:25 EST

First off Matt, you have no idea who you are speaking to and I take offence to your comments. Shall I give you my credentials, like many others have done on this forum.............my mother was cherokee, born in NC, my father was Lakota Souix, so I dare you speak to me about being a racist.
I was awarded by the president of the US a special accomodation for being a NATIVE AMERICAN and graduating from the AF ACADEMY.
I spent 30 years in the USAF as a JET PILOT and retired a LT. COLONEL. I usually do not blow my own horn BUT I DARE YOU LECTURE ME..

Lastly as I have said many times on this forum, I believe in three things, MY GOD, MY FAMILY and MY COUNTRY.......I keep a NIV Bible at my bedside which I have read three times and I am still learning,

I ask you to not address me personally on this forum and if you not like my comments then move on.

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surfingcebu
8/13/2019 00:34 EST

Martin- I can understand your upset . People of sound mind all agree that “ red man, white man , blue man” should all be treated with dignity and respect.... the bases of race or culture is no reason to dislike or even hate.
I have a native friend and he hates the “ white man” .... I told him I am a white man .... he rationalized it and said “ yes , but your not really as white as the guys I hate “ . But I ha e blue eye and blond hair I told him .... still he feels I’m not white. Omg hate can be poisonous and blind at times .

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surfingcebu
8/13/2019 01:36 EST

Robert ~ quite the resume . I flew tacan in everything from a twin otter SAR, to a CF5 , I proud of my reserve wings . Have them in a prominent place in my office.
As for God and Country, it must kill you living outside of it ? I love the RP , despite all the broken expats ;) , warts and all, , but for a guy like you to leave your country behind and witness what is going on there on top of that ... well, it must be tough. . Have you ever considered to move back to your country of love.?

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darkfader24
8/13/2019 02:17 EST

RobertDav - Kickin' Ass, Brutha, Kickin' Ass. Dig it. From a fellow Native-Am. Tarahumara/Pima/Apache. And thank you for your service!

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Morgacj2004
8/13/2019 02:21 EST

Couldn’t agree more with this post. The grass is not always greener on the other side. The liberal PC socialist movement is ruining the West.

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Robertdav298
8/13/2019 04:50 EST

Draks I agree 100%.......like I a wiseman once said....."never judge a man unless you can walk a mile in his mocosans"

DAVY CROCKETT

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Raksta
8/13/2019 11:33 EST

Interesting. You must have spent much time thinking. If you leave PH the average here will increase. Then you go back to US, apply for a job in the White House and the average will increase there as well. Win-win.

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mootpoint20
8/13/2019 18:45 EST

Well said, Robert. Intellectuals run their mouth off believing thoughts correlate to action. "Animal Farm" has the 'Bolshevik' pigs declaring, "All animals are equal, but some animals are MORE equal than others." Or as Karl Marx declared "It's not important to know the world but to change it" You have the credentials...so glad you stated your case. I"m USAF, Christian, and educated. But character is the sole determinant of destiny, not education. Courage, sacrifice, and love for God. You don't make many friends, you may even get 'crucified', but standing proud, you can say it loud...…"No! I won't back down."

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Robertdav298
8/14/2019 00:47 EST

Thank you MOOT, there are not many of our generation left.
I would not want to be 30 years old in todays world, I truly believe if JESUS were on earth today........we would crucify him again........why......because the BIBLE says so.

Heads up........SUG has returned as GOSLIC

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Robertdav298
8/14/2019 00:55 EST

Marsh....thanks for answering......appreciate it.

Some advice for you since you are one of the lucky ones who successfully made it out of Harlem, Watts, east side of cleveland.......and many others just like the RP..........your success will be measured by what you give back to your country and your family.
Best of luck on your journey.

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Raksta
8/17/2019 13:29 EST

You missed almost everything. US is number 24 when it comes to IQ.

Reason is unequal education. In US. So many can not reach there IQ potential because of unability to pay for education.

Same reason for Africa, parts of Asia and of course Philippines. Corruption and other systems makes it impossible for people to be educated.

Europes high IQ is explained by the fact that all people have the opportunity to go school. In Sweden free to University level.

An additional year of education increase IQ in average with more than 3.

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Raksta
8/17/2019 13:33 EST

I forgot. My previous message means of course that the racist explanation of IQ is put in garbage bucket!

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Tsmslf
8/17/2019 14:27 EST

I don't think IQ is "caused" by education. It's more basic than that and the IQ questions are generic, i.e., absent of the need to have taken specific courses or classes. It's supposed to measure innate, cognitive ability rather than educational attainment.

Thus, some believe it is genetic (nature) while others believe it is how one is brought up (nurture). I don't know or have an opinion myself.

I do know it exists and is almost immediately apparent in some people upon meeting them.

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mootpoint20
8/17/2019 23:47 EST

Sure? Allow me to 'transliterate your vernacular'...i.e. the Golden rule is he who has the gold, rules!

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Raksta
8/18/2019 15:15 EST

Of course it does. Maybe you should spend some time googling scientist papers. Of course nobody gets higher IQ by attending a course.

However, by education you train your brain with more and more complex problem - year after year- maybe for 10 -15 more years than the less lucky.

A farmer without any school staying in his field planting rise would show a higher IQ if he got the opportunity to challenge his brain by university studies. He never got the opportunity to solve more and more difficult mathematical problems.

The conclusion of Scientists is that IQ in average increase by 3 for each additional year in school. It is based on research. It is not my idea. If you believe in science? And the conclusion is valid worldwide.

Of course I know that the foundation of IQ is genes but how you live your life effects and change the level. Einstein would of course be an intelligent man also if he choosed to plant rise. But his scientific life increased that level.

You can believe what you want!

I live with pinoys all the time. My conclusion is that pinoys are intelligent people. But of course I can not discuss the same topics with our maid as I can with the teacher or the construction director. By the way - our maid has started to try Swedish sentences to our great joy. She is not low IQ - but she is uneducated.

By the way - why don*t you go and test yourself?

Good Night and farewell

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draks
8/18/2019 21:42 EST

I left school when I was 14, I could read, write, basic arithmetic, a little bit of history 1066 and all that, tiny bit of geography. I started my business when I was 21 car sales/repairs. I did this untill I retired, not a millionaire but had a good life, nice cars, boats, trips abroad. I did do an IQ test and it came out at 87 which I guess is very low, but I was driving a 1967 ford Mustang 390GT, had a 30' sailing boat, taught myself how to Navigate, big motorcycles nice house etc etc etc, this was in the UK where opportunities are there. But IQ of 87. Now tell me why I was not poor and sweeping the streets for a living.
Philippines does not have the same opportunities, as we do in the west.
If you are poor then mostly that's where you stay, the very wealthy want to keep you poor.
There seems to me to be a lot of snobbery, when it comes to IQ, if you were fortunate enough to have a really good education, but only held down a job/career, then I think a peasant farmer planting rice, who drags his family out of starvation and utter poverty has done much more than a well educated self centred snob,

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Tsmslf
8/18/2019 22:31 EST

Mr. Raksta:

I'm uncertain as to whether you were responding to my posts. I offer my comments in general unless sure they are a direct reply to a direct remark of another poster.
It is true that education will raise IQ and those articles I've read state the range is from 1.5 to 5 points. Thus, it is surely possible that more schooling in the PR would raise the IQ of the country. That said, there has not been such widespread education and the fact is that the PR's IQ is what was stated: around 85. If that is a cause (NOT THE CAUSE) of the nation's poor economy, then schooling should help improve it. Nobody ever said that Pinoys were dumb. Some of you more virtuous dudes insist that they are smart. I don't know as my exposure to them is limited. Nationally however, they are where they are; equivalent to blacks in the US at around 85 give or take. That is a fact, not a racist fact. I pray that black IQ here would jump to 103 as that would help my country immeasurably.
As for being tested, I have been over the years including high school, the Marine Corps, college and law school. As I recall, it was 147 in law school and 130 in the USMC. When I worked at IBM, they tested us but declined to reveal scores. We weere all bright as new pennies anyway so it didn't matter much but the company had some need to know.
I spent 25-30 years in computers, then some venture capital and consulting work before startin law school at 60 and beginning to practice at 65. I now have 23 years of lawyering experience so I'm surely not a low IQ type. But who really cares? I'm so old that nobody cares anymore except one of my Pinay gfs.

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Robertdav298
8/18/2019 23:36 EST

Question, is common sense related to IQ......because its been my experience that most people in the RP lack basic common sense.

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darkfader24
8/19/2019 12:55 EST

Drake - You've proven that it takes Vision, Dedication, Inspiration, and Perspiration - along with a healthy dose of faith / belief in your abilities to become a success. One of my closest friends has a ridiculously high IQ. He is waaaay out there, and yet has been "homeless" for approx. 6 years. He was voted the best Comedy Writer 5 years in a row by an Association for Comedy Writers or something like that. After giving the big Final Speech at one of their conventions about 10 years ago - one of America's all time greatest Comedians, Jonathan Winters (who Robin Williams built his style on), walked up to him and said "From now on, you're my writer!". He basically baby-sat Winters for the last few years of his life. So - you can be a genius, and still have nothing. You can be so smart that you can't focus long enough on anything to get it done - his mind is on to 10 other things before he has accomplished the first thing. I have noticed other people in a similar mode. I'm not convinced that being the smartest in the class is always the Ticket to success.

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Morgacj2004
8/19/2019 13:03 EST

Also might add that many highly intelligent people have no common sense and poor social skills. If you want a good example of this watch the TV show Big Bang Theory- Dr. Sheldon Cooper

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Raksta
8/19/2019 13:32 EST

Thanks for your answer - 3 up.

Last post for me. I believe that if pinoys potentials where better used - the economy would be much, much better. But improvements happens fast.

I have been hanging around for 20 years - the improvements can clearly be seen from one year to the next. Before only the churches looked nice and newly painted. The changes during 20 years is dramatic. The economic development shows today almost chinese figures +6-7 %.

The extreme poverty is more than halfed since I came here the first time 20 years ago. Many still poor in my eyes - but fewer on the extreme level. The changes are dramatic and fast.

You can google "world poverty clock" to see how fast changes happens if you are interested.

I believe PH will compete like India and China for the coming years with high IQ, lower cost and dedicated people and that the economy will increase fast. The only problem is that exchange rate between PHP and our foreign currencies will be unfavourable for us - I can live with that.

See you

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darkfader24
8/19/2019 16:17 EST

Raksta - I have read where several things are starting to be taken over by the Philippines. Call Centers, for one thing, because Filipinos speak much better English and are much easier to understand than the people in India. Even though the pay may not be great - at least these Pinoys / Pinays are being employed - which is a good thing. I hope this trend and others continue.

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Tsmslf
8/19/2019 17:26 EST

Dark f

Yes but. Anecdotal evidence such as the Jonathan Winters example is not likely to be indicative of a country as a whole. That's the same problem as a poster saying he knows smart Pinoys. That is obvious. The issue is spread over 100 million, how do they stack up?

We saw that in the Brainstats table and
the post wondered if that was A reason for the economic depth of the RP

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Robertdav298
8/19/2019 20:18 EST

Raksta, I agree, to a point, for the RP to compete in the world market with countries like India, China and most noteably the fast rising country of VIETNAM, the RP MUST squelch CORRUPTION at all levels and stop the drugs from pouring into the country. Only then will they begin to prosper.

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darkfader24
8/19/2019 21:00 EST

Tsmslf - I was not making a comment so much about IQ Level - as to how one uses it. I.E., my friend is exceedingly bright, far more intelligent than I, but I am far more financially stable than he is, due to a number of factors. Like many "Super Intelligent People" that I have known, or known about, sometimes they are too smart for their own good. Having worked with many "Autistic" people, many times the Super Intelligent ones show strong similarities to Autistics. Not surprising, as many times Autistic people are over-the-top brainiacs who have such acute and intense awareness or heightened senses that they tend to "shut down".

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surfingcebu
8/20/2019 01:07 EST

Could this be the reason the RP is poor and now subject to the rule of the mainlanders Any influences?

https://summit.news/2019/08/19/chinese-social-credit-score-prevents-2-5-million-discredited-entities-from-buying-plane-tickets/

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NextStage
8/20/2019 08:48 EST

You certainly may be right about the IQ part--I have not studied it to verify. However, I offer one more thought on why the RP is poor--there exist huge friction or waste in the economy everywhere.

Any time spent in lines or in traffic is largely unproductive as virtually no productive labor occurs to add to GDP. When one considers the massive time spent by Filipinos in lines and in traffic it is staggering. Every where you go....people are just waiting.

If the RP government can cut into this with better infrastructure it has huge implications for the GDP. I hope so for them.

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Raksta
8/20/2019 11:20 EST

Hi all

In my opinion all late response are relevant, good and well thought. Corruption, traffic, drugs etc are such huge obstacles for a good economic development. Corruption the worst I guess. The traffic condition must cost so much in effiency. And drugs destroy peoples lives. But still the economy explodes in the right direction!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is getting better in Philippines.

I want to recommend a book. Factfulness written by Rosling, a Swedish doctor with decades of experience from poor countries. Especially Africa. He has spoken in front of UN, the Economic forum in Davos with leaders from all over the world, governments in so many countries. He has spoken for school classes, teachers all over the world and much more. He has given many hundreds (if not thousands) speaches.

He always used to start a speach by asking some questions with answer a,b,c before the speach to demonstrate the audience lack of knowledge.

He was really nervous when he talked in front of the yearly Financial Business Forum in Davos. He talked to the top leaders of the world - business leaders for the biggest companies in the world, presidents from different countries and other important decisionmakers. If they could answer the questions it would be difficult to hold the speach as planned. They did not know much.

The result is basically that 10-15 % of the audiences everywhere give the right answer. The rest are wrong about everything.

Questions might concern development of poverty, how many get education or how many poor have electricity, population groth and much more.

It is basically a very optimistic book (but lacks info about climate change risks).

Much of our perception comes from daily news which are always bad.

Good news are slow - like the decrease in poverty - and never creates a headline on the first page.

The book was by Bill Gates described as "One of the most important books I've ever read - an indispensable guide to thinking clearly about the world". Bill Gates gave an example to every student graduating from college in US ( I do not know if it happened only one year or several). One of the rich families in Sweden did the same and gave the book to all students in Sweden.

I bought 6 books to give away to friends here. If you get the opportunity, please read the book - it is worth it. It helps me to try to see the positives in the forest of all bad news published every day and to remember that the daily picture of the world is skewed to the negative.

You can also find a web site (it is created by the Rosling family and Foundation- search for GAPMINDER. It gives a lot of information. There is also statistics that you can play with yourself, e.g. compare something in Philippines with other countries.

I hope yoy spend some time with this and I hope some of you read the book. I have not tried but I guess it is possible to buy the digital book. It is worth it!!

Regards

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Tsmslf
8/20/2019 11:45 EST

In the spirit of collegiality, the word is NOT "speach"; it is: speech.

And good news IS, not are while I'm at it. There is more but you may not be a native English speaker.

It would be easy to do a rant on this topic based on the posts here but, again, who knows which of us is a native English speaker. Those who are not deserve some slack. Those who are deserve something else. Derision certainly, disbelief likely; from me, both.

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Raksta
8/20/2019 12:07 EST

I will stop writing anything here so you can sleep witout me irritating you. I am no native english speaker as everybody realise.

I know that my English is not the best. It is a second language. I am not sure you are better in your second language if you have any?

My apologise for participating here.

Good bye

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Tsmslf
8/20/2019 13:04 EST

Constructive criticism is useful for growth and the critique was only as to form, not substance. It's too bad you're such a tender person. Makes it harder to learn and grow I think.

As to my 2nd language, I minored in Latin in college and have 9 years of it including high school. It's great for English grammar btw. Made me a better altar boy as well.

I had a home in Paris, Neuilly actually, so I could speak, read and write minimal French waaaay back and I have some self-taught Mandarin via CDs but claim no ability other than being able to pronounce Pinyin words. I've nothing in the way of deciphering Mandarin characters.

Your English skill clearly exceeds my other language skills but I would look at corrections as helpful and not run away from them. Accepting corrections is one way I got to be an almost perfect English speaker and writer.

I made a bet with my children that if they ever caught me making a grammatical mistake, I'd give her/him $100. Now, some 50 years later, I have children who speak perfect English as do I and it has cost me $50 over the years. They still listen and, occasionally, question my usage. They don't win money but it's been very good for them. And fun for me.

Perhaps you might reconsider your decision and continue giving us the benefit of your experiences. That way, we all win.

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mootpoint20
8/20/2019 13:23 EST

By George! The man with the inflatable head. It's like a balloon. (Still in America, of course)

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Morgacj2004
8/20/2019 13:55 EST

Thanks for the book referral Raksta I will check this out and dont worry about the grammar police. They are just bored

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Raksta
8/20/2019 14:27 EST

Today spelling speach instead of speech is probably only read wine. Guests from Italy here.

But you are nice - never a nice word

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Raksta
8/20/2019 14:33 EST

Maybe I stay for another week if I am not critisised for everthing.

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Robertdav298
8/20/2019 18:54 EST

WOW......panties are to tight?

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Tsmslf
8/20/2019 21:23 EST

Apparently cannot stand the heat of a different opinion. But then he's not American and may not be used to open and frank discussion which is one hallmark of the U.S. culture as infused by the 1st Amendment. Too bad as it's the only way to fly.

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darkfader24
8/20/2019 23:28 EST

Raksta - Don't go. You have some wonderful comments - and you speak / write English much better than I do with a second language - which is none. You don't have to be perfect in order to get good thoughts across to us. We all understand what you mean. The book that you recommended sounds VERY interesting. I have a recommendation for you. It's a novel by the amazing Michael Crichton (Jurassic Park, Andromeda Strain, and many other great concept books). The book that I recommend is "State of Fear" - an exciting adventure novel built around some incredible facts with full indexing of the facts plus tables showing the true nature of the Climate Change narrative. What's really interesting is the "Foreword" that Mr. Crichton wrote. He started out writing this book around the idea of Climate Change happening one way - but as he did his research, finding many studies by NASA and other sources - which he documents and shows - he came to the opposite conclusion of where he was originally going. He lays out his story with his characters in an interesting and entertaining way. Highly recommended. And please stay with us.

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Robertdav298
8/21/2019 00:23 EST

My second language is English, as my birth language is Lakota.
It always amazes me that people whose first language is English always expect that everybody speaks english. When actually the number 1 spoken language in the world is Mandarin, simply because there are so many chinese.

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surfingcebu
8/21/2019 01:06 EST

TSm - open and frank discussion all right it’s core in Australia, and to a lesser degree New Zealand as well , just to mention a few . Not only the US. I really enjoy the frankness, and the openness of conversations I have this Filipinos as well, once they consider your a friend .
In my travels in Europe, it’s been my experience that no one has an opinion, that they will share Readily with you , with exception of a few pockets in Germany. It’s probably the pressures of political correctness, which is very real, and stems from the control of the liberal left that the European Union is encompassed with now.

That’s why the Philippines is a breath of fresh air , I don’t see stifled liberalism is affecting the communications here. Not to the extent that I see in Western Europe under the European union.
Sweden is really paying the price for its past liberalism. It’s really making changes quickly to get away from that scenario. Bear spray, because it rapes being Out of control, is up 120% year to date. Amazing. And some people in the USA want to emulate this?

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acol
8/21/2019 07:57 EST

Surfing, you really are surprizing me sometimes.What do you know about Europe except "left-liberalism"? First this concept of associating "left" and "liberalism" is totally unappropriate. "Left" is socialist and communist (the few dinosaurs) and "liberals" can be associated to US conservatives. More on the right side. About Sweden that you cited as an case, note the that liberals (conservative thus) did not dismantle the social advantages that the socialist governments had been giving.Slight amendments only. Scandinavian countries are among the happiest countries in the world. Just imagine how Greenlanders will appreciate their region being sold to the redhead fool. Oh yes: english is only one of the 4 languages I manage more or less, but like for Raksta, never fear correcting me. :-)

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Goslig
8/21/2019 11:10 EST

Robertdav298
So what? I think that is old news because someone from this forum changed my email password a second time after they did it to SUG. You know who too! I announced myself to the monitor. A fake account was used to get my email pretending to ask for help in a private message. That is really petty, so I snoozed the forum for a while. Robert I maybe hurt you feelings fby criticising your bragging about how many missions you flew over Vietnam because that’s not what the purpose of the forum is about. I respect our differences but I would much rather hear about how many lives you saved. I saved 5 drowning victims, 4 children and one adult. My 26 year old daughter dragged a handicapped woman from a burning house with exploding oxygen tanks with the help from a construction worker and she suffered a lot of smoke inhalation. Okay, I’ll stop bragging now too. You be you and I’ll be me. I don’t care if someone disagrees with me, but personal attacks are against the rules even if the monitor thinks they make worthy new topics to post in the daily update.

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Goslig
8/21/2019 11:34 EST

Raksta Don’t hold your breath on that wish. Just stay focused on the life in the Philippines. I use my delete button vigorously now for all the nonsense about US politics. You can’t seem to escape it on Twitter, Quora, Reddit, Facebook, YouTube. That’s why I like it here. Just snooze the negativity by some. Many here are good folks even when they disagree. Something to be said about their mature cool heads.

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Goslig
8/21/2019 11:44 EST

Raksta Please come back sometime in the future. The bullies on the forum will just find their next victim, but the delete button works. Focus your posts to topics and people who follow the Agreement and have meaningful posts about the Philippines without having to strut around their false impression of their superiority. Dunning Kruger Syndrome,

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Goslig
8/21/2019 11:59 EST

Tsmslf Take a look in the 20 plus other world studies of IQ. Brainstats just one. Many factors influence poverty and wealth. The “r” factor of a correlation coefficient can be matched with completely unrelated phenomena. Good IQ helps, but I have known Ph.D’s that no one would hire. My views are just as contrast and not intended to personally attack you..

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Robertdav298
8/21/2019 21:04 EST

ACOL. why do you continue to make statements on this forum about the US President as you called him the "redheaded fool" don't you realize that you CONTINUE to insult AMERICANS by your continued attack?
Like Morgac said......go eat some chocolate.

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Tsmslf
8/21/2019 22:22 EST

Please cite the URLs of some of those other IQ sites to which you refer. As you say, many factors affect economic growth. I have repeatedly said that by stating that IQ is "a factor" not "the factor". As for that phd nobody would hire, tht's anecdotal evidence and unpersuasive always.

My view, as I asked in posing the question was what do you folks think. I don't have a position on the subject and was sseeking information.

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surfingcebu
8/22/2019 00:17 EST

Acol- yes I am sure Scandinavians were very happy that the murder rate in Sweden has gone up 150% over the last five years. The rape rate has gone up more than 200% in the last five years. I’m sure this makes him very happy in Scandinavia as the other countries are a mirror image of Sweden. Good luck with your own truths.

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gypsyquokka
8/22/2019 04:14 EST

robertdav / surfing / darkfaker- When will you guys post anything constructive??? Constantly critical of other members postings about most topics. Always defending your friend "carrots" - IF you believe he is such a good leader of USA why dont you live there before he causes a full civil war to breakout? Critical of ant comments about him, but never post a single positive item that he has achieved during his term. You all said you wanted a topic / site where you can discuss USA politics - yet you write politics under every heading.

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acol
8/22/2019 06:25 EST

Surfing: I don't know the source of your information on Sweden. "my truths" as you say are based on some website like wikipedia or this one: https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Sweden/United-States/Crime
Include the fact that I have been working for the EU and thus with scandinavian colleagues. Statistical analysis can be made difficult by different definitions, reporting systems, legal basis,cultural secrecy and so on. I will now have a look at criminality in the RP which is finally more related to this topic.

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Goslig
8/22/2019 10:10 EST

Tsmslf I just Googled IQ by country. Many studies, but I focused on 2019 data. I then Googled African American Billionaires where Forbes set me straight. I posted it, It didn’t pop up in my stream, but it was really interesting. You should have a look. I don’t disagree entirely with your point, just saying there’s a lot more to it than just IQ and the brainstats data.

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Tsmslf
8/22/2019 12:34 EST

I really have more of a question than a point and have repeatedly said IQ was perhaps "a reason" not "the reason" for the RP's poor economic performance.

I fail to see a connection with African billionaires and poor Pinoys. What is it?

And did the other studies you looked at rank countries about the same as Brainstats reported? I would guess they do as there doesn't seem to be much argument about IQ numbers that I know of. Lots of other arguments but the numbers don't seem to vary or people don't seem to make that argument. Some argue about the methodology of the survey but I'm no expert on this, just an observer with questions.
We have enough virtuous lecturers here anyway. One recently was gracious enough to allow readers their own view if they chose to ignore the wisdom of his disquisition about some obscure niche that he's studied. Spare me such please but it's his schtick. He can put me in one of his boxes if he know the roots of that word. I've already put him in one of my boxes. It's labeled: Virtuous and boring bull-------. He (I think) will likely take exception to that but he he granted me that license. But that's just me.

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darkfader24
8/22/2019 12:52 EST

Gypsy - I have to run to an appointment - but I will be happy to answer your questions soon. Quickly, thouggh - First - I DO live in America. Central California, The San Joaquin Valley. And Second - I am the one who posted a recommendation to have separate Poltical Threads - but i just did that ONE DAY AGO - So CHILL, Bubba!!

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Tsmslf
8/22/2019 17:48 EST

We are practically neighbors as I live in Arcadia, adjacent to and East of Pasadena. Hot in both places as prep for the PR though I've lived in Phoenix, the Valley and Palm Springs so I'm aware of what to do (turn on the aircon.) It's the humidity that really hurts day in/out. Most folks who retire to the beach in HI soon move up into the hills to avoid the moisture and have cool nights.

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LarryKar
8/23/2019 03:24 EST

Tsmslf: If you have never been to the Phillippines you have no idea of the concept of " humidity". My first visit was in October. Crisp fall day in Iowa. I had on a light jacket, jeans, long sleeve Oxford shirt and a short sleeve T shirt. When I stepped out of the airport I fully understood what was meant by the expression, " like walking into a cloud of warm jello." I grew up in Southern Illinois thought I knew humidity. No not so much. But after about six months you acclimate. Now I'm like a Filipino and looking for my North Slope sweatshirt if it gets into the low 70's and under 50% humidity.

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LarryKar
8/23/2019 03:25 EST

Tsmslf: If you have never been to the Phillippines you have no idea of the concept of " humidity". My first visit was in October. Crisp fall day in Iowa. I had on a light jacket, jeans, long sleeve Oxford shirt and a short sleeve T shirt. When I stepped out of the airport I fully understood what was meant by the expression, " like walking into a cloud of warm jello." I grew up in Southern Illinois thought I knew humidity. No not so much. But after about six months you acclimate. Now I'm like a Filipino and looking for my North Slope sweatshirt if it gets into the low 70's and under 50% humidity.

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darkfader24
8/23/2019 04:48 EST

LarryKar - This absolutely terrifies me - as I can't stand Hot Humidity. Walking by a cool beach in California - or in a Forest high in the Mountains - I love that kind of humidity. But Turkish Sauna Humidity - I just can't handle it. It is probably the single greatest apprehension I have towards moving to the RP. Second would be the terrible pollution, especially in traffic.

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Tsmslf
8/23/2019 09:14 EST

I've been there a few times and was already familiar with that type of humidity. My parents retired to Florida and I grew up in NYC plus I was in the USMC and went to Parris Island and later was stationed there for a few months. Have been to Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands et al and, of course, Southern Texas. None of those places is cool and dry.
Livng in So.California and the Western U.S. spoils you for humidity. It's one reason why I'm chary of retiring to much of S.E. Asia despite other benefits such as Mattinfork is assiduously seeking.

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Goslig
8/23/2019 09:20 EST

Tsmslf Your first post stated that African Americans and Hispanics lowered the mean IQ of Americans, except for a “few” Obama, etc. There are more that a few African American Billionaires but surely they had an IQ over 98 wouldn’t you agree?

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surfingcebu
8/23/2019 12:12 EST

TSM - no worries you DO get use to the humidity after a while in SE Asia . first few weeks it's tough , but after that , you get use to it ... thats been my experience with me and my friends .

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mootpoint20
9/18/2019 22:21 EST

It's red-faced, not red-headed ! And its more of an orange-faced, than actually red-faced. As to why RP's poor, I think we lost our train of thought.

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darkfader24
9/18/2019 22:52 EST

Moot - you are right - but long conversations (and threads) do tend to Rabbit Trail.........

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