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Photo voltaic panels in UY?

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Vortice
  6/16/2019 13:12 EST

The storm knocked UTE down again last night, and while it is back up, we are wanting to install a PV array/system. I will be doing the work, so what I am asking is about reliable solar panel brands and where to purchase them in UY. Does anyone have experience with this? Thanks in advance.

Morell
  6/16/2019 13:54 EST

You might start with UTE themselves. They have a Plan Solar and info on their website.

https://portal.ute.com.uy/clientes/soluciones-para-el-hogar/beneficios/plan-solar

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Vortice
  6/16/2019 18:35 EST

Morell, thanks for the UTE link. I think it is primarily related to water heating to reduce UTE water heating load. Good stuff, and we absolutely need to pursue solar water heating (that mercado libre 40gal water heater has yet to be fitted for LP). Incidentally, we do not want a grid connect to our solar electric, rather we brought from CA, a manual transfer switch (break before make) to install between UTE and auto generation sources, that we may power everything from any source.
I understand that there are a lot of sub standard panels available that will fail long before the 25 yr "life", so I am looking for fairly priced , quality panels.

Morell
  6/16/2019 18:47 EST

These folk have been around for a while.

https://www.renovables.com.uy/

We only bought low flow shower heads from them. I think they are German - have not had any contact with them for a number of years.

Vortice
  6/16/2019 19:07 EST

Thank you Morell, I will look into whether they will supply components only, as I will do installation.
I was amazed to see that our local UTE outage on the farm was anything but. A fault in Argentina triggered protection circuitry in Argentina, Chile, Uruguay and Paraguay. Energy self sufficiency is looking better every day.

JanusUY
  6/18/2019 14:44 EST

Vortice,
I do not live in UY as yet but have been researching for a long time. I heard about the recent grid outages and empathize with your frustration. Solar may help, or it may not depending on how you install it. I'm replying as I owned a solar installation company in the USA for many years and I always get concerned when people DIY these projects. To do them right you should have a solar pro and an experienced solar electrician assist you at a minimum. Speaking from experience, I've hired long-time master electricians with no solar experience and a case of ego and seen otherwise simple electrical mistakes go horribly wrong. In short, it is very easy to "energize" anything metal anywhere around or attached to the solar panels if you don't do things properly. This includes grounding and torquing everything properly. The result of not doing so could be serious injury or more probably death to the person or animal in the wrong place at the wrong time.

That aside from a technical perspective adding solar will not separate you from the UTE grid unless you add a battery bank to your system along with switching gear that will separate your buildings from UTE (or you could wire it all "off-grid" with batteries but that gets really expensive).

Your best bet is to find a local solar company to work with as you will need UTE approval before starting any work, and before finally connecting to their grid (again, unless you use batteries and go off-grid). If it were me I would decline to sell you equipment only for reasons previously mentioned and the potential liability that comes with it. I wish I could tell you module brands to use but it would all be dependent on what brands the local solar company supports. I never liked MOST of the Chinese brands, opting instead for US, German and Jap/Korean brands. Your best bet is to Google something like "top 10 module companies USA" and see who comes up along with where they are based and who actually owns them (ex., 'Canadian Solar' is actually a Chinese-owned company with an office and operations in Canada but few realize this fact). As for non-commercial electrical inverters I preferred SMA but SolarEdge is another good one that sells well here in the US. UTE probably has al its of inverters they will support, or a process for getting one approved. I've read that many solar companies in UY have recently closed shop as the national government has not extended any finance options to help with the up-front costs and time to get connected to UTE but that may be inaccurate.

Good luck with your project and above all else please get it wired, grounded and connected with UTE correctly for everyone's health and safety.
JanusUY

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Vortice
  6/18/2019 15:25 EST

Hola JanusUY, thanks for the council. There will be no cx to UTE beyond the afore mentioned manual transfer switch. UTE (any utility) needs access to the switching equipment to guarantee the safety of linemen. We do not care to grant access or grid connect. Originally I was to be the Uruguayan rep for a vortex (vortice) hydroelectric generation company in Austria, so I am very familiar with UTE requirements. Solar panel price has plummeted driving the financial nail in the coffin of small scale, 5-50kW, hydroelectric units.
Having maintained battery banks in the past, I am loathe to have much battery capacity beyond 4 deep cycle (Trojan) 6V batteries. At night flip the transfer switch back to UTE and minimal lighting/internet/security use of the 12vdc bus. A LP electric back up generator, with a large LP tank, will probably be the best back-up as long term gasoline or diesel storage is problematic. The last house we built in California had a standby Caterpilar diesel generator and automatic transfer switch....600 amp, 240 volt, 3 phase!!!!!(the Edison Electric service was 1200 amp) Too much power for folks with too much money. I am looking for suppliers of panels, inverters etc here in Uruguay. Inverter designs range from the useless to the sublime and is a "complicado" subject in and of itself.

Vortice
  6/18/2019 16:14 EST

Regarding your previous quote: "please get it wired, grounded and connected with UTE correctly for everyone's health and safety." I could not agree with you more. Coming from California, I have never seen more dangerous electrical wiring such as I have seen here in Uruguay. A restaurant bathroom light switch with bare twisted wire connections and old scotch tape hanging off. Bare 230 volt wires in a wet bathroom? What could go wrong?
Technically, when comparing US 115 voltage to 230 volts here, we are not speaking of a mere doubling. In any given circuit, and unfortunately humans sometimes comprise an electrical circuit,: when the voltage doubles, the current also doubles and since power in Watts = amps X volts (both of which have doubled) the power in Watts through the circuit (body) is quadruple (4X). Seriously lethal.
The up side is that wire size is determined by amps not volts, so wire here can be half the size for the same power (Watt) load which saves money on copper. I would still choose the 230/115 volt system for safety. Copper is cheaper than lives.....in some parts of the world.
Be really careful with the electric power here!

JanusUY
  6/19/2019 13:28 EST

Hi Vortice,
Sounds like you have solid familiarity with electricity and distributed power generation. The only thing about solar and using utility grid switch gear, and unlike other generation sources, is that solar is never really ever "off" unless there is 150% complete darkness outside, and thus for safety considerations of the servicing utility company they always want to ensure their lines cannot be back fed by solar panel generation by accident in the event of a grid outage. This is to protect the line workers who would be making grid repairs. In the US only a battery bank that includes a utility cut-off switch (ex., https://www.sma-america.com/products/battery-inverters.html) would qualify to service a specific load for operation after the grid goes down. The battery bank needs to be sized to desired load. Theoretically you could service load without the batteries, but, you would need to have dedicated load circuits the solar could energize, and especially loads that do not service equipment like motors/pumps/etc. that might be damaged by an intermittent current (which would happen if a cloud bank goes over head for say 1+ minutes and the solar current (A) is severely diminished). The newer generation of inverters (ex., https://www.sma-america.com/products/solarinverters/sunny-boy-30-us-38-us-50-us-60-us-70-us-77-us.html) have an AC outlet than can be energized if the grid goes down and shut off via an automatic internal shut-off switch, but the benefit stops at the outlet and what you can plug into it. This is a better solution for powering radios, cell phone chargers, small appliances or a back-up fridge/freezer for short periods and only while the sun is shining.

Keep me posted on your progress as I'm interested to learn who you find works in the UY solar market and what solution you ultimately end up selecting. GL!
JanusUY

Vortice
  6/19/2019 16:41 EST

JanusUY, It is all under control. My quest is for reliable panels in UY, nothing more needed.

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