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Permesso di Soggiorno

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matteo1968
  1/6/2017 15:04 EST

Can someone tell me if I can have a permesso di soggiorno submitted while in Italy on a tourist visa? My husband is an Italian citizen. Also, once submitted, does the "clock" on my tourist visa stop or will I have to leave while they make a decision?

DoppioCittadino
  1/9/2017 07:07 EST

They and Boeing were wrong.

However, my suspicion is that Boeing was doing the necessary paperwork in the background and they just didn't know it. Boeing may even have obtained a blanket visa of some sort. Governments have always gone out of their way to accommodate very large companies.

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maluza86
  1/9/2017 04:26 EST

DoppoCittadino and ewtexpat,

This is a very interesting discussion concerning "freelance" work and work for universities, which seems to be treated a little different.

However, I knew several Americans who would come over here for 90 days at a time and work for Boeing in Grottaglia...what they told me, since they were being paid in US$, by a US company sub-contracted by Boeing, they were legal. Boeing did this for years. I begged to differ, as my contention was Boeing should have been getting them work Visas. I guess my point is there seems to be a lot of "gray" areas.

ewtexpat
  1/8/2017 14:22 EST

DoppioCittadino, thanks for the information. Some of information requested is similar to what the Universities request. Possibly they are handling the visa. I'm not sure if they would classify me as a freelancer, but regardless this is helpful and I will check with my Italian colleagues. Much appreciated.

DoppioCittadino
  1/8/2017 12:35 EST

ewtexpat,

Honestly, I cannot say for certain but I suspect you may need a visa of some sort in order to be entirely legal.

I went to this Ministry of the Interior website http://vistoperitalia.esteri.it/home/en#BMQuestionario and selected the "Self-employment Freelance" (that was the best I could come up with) option for under 90 days stay and US Citizen. It says you need:

* Entry visa application form ( View )

* recent passport-size photograph

* valid travel document whose expiry date is three months longer than that of the visa requested

* Certificate of an abstract recognition of the resources necessary for the business, trade or craft activity to be undertaken, issued by the relevant Chamber of Commerce for the area where the activity shall take place. These resources must not be fewer than the annual amount of the minimum income (€ 4,962.36)

* Sufficient funds available in Italy to guarantee the resources as per the Certificate

* availability of an income relating to the previous financial year which must be higher than the minimum level required by law for exemption from health care contribution ((€8,400), already acquired in the country of residence

* Nulla osta (authorisation) from the relevant Questura

* proof of suitable accommodation

tex62
  1/8/2017 10:11 EST

maluza86 please pm as I haven't been able to pm you. I would really like to speak with you regarding some information that I believe you have insight on

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ewtexpat
  1/8/2017 09:35 EST

DoppioCittadino, this is interesting, since these universities invite guest speakers/instructors from all parts of the world regularly for a variety of task. I actually don't have a visa perse, I just enter Italy with my US passport like anyone else from the US that is not planning to stay there more than 90 days. I assumed that was informally referred to as a "tourist visa." Did I misinterpret? When I was there as a visiting professor (6 months) I was required to get a research/scholar visa. Thanks for your concern

DoppioCittadino
  1/8/2017 09:07 EST

ewtexpat,

Wait a moment, you are doing "contracted work" in Italy while there on a tourist visa??

That is absolutely forbidden. You had better be careful...

ewtexpat
  1/7/2017 14:54 EST

maluza86, thanks for your quick and thoughtful reply. Presently I'm not living in Italy. I travel back and forth on a tourist visa. Since I'm not retired yet, I stay anywhere from 2-3 weeks at a time, doing a bit of contracted work and visiting my spouse.

I plan to leave for Italy permanently in mid June of this year, when I will begin the process of applying for the PdiS. So it seems hopefully that this year concerning taxes I could be ok, since getting residency will take a bit of time.

Concerning working in Italy I guess the various Universities I have been working for are getting permission for me to work. I would like to continue to do this part time work. I will have to explore this "non lavoro" clause in greater depth. Your help is most appreciated. Expat52

maluza86
  1/7/2017 13:29 EST

Hello Expat52,

Are you currently living in Italy? It sounds like you are currently living and working in Italy legally…please let me know before I provide answers to all your questions as the answers may be different depending on the information.

As for taxes if you are a resident in Italy more than 183 days, you will need to pay taxes. Most likely you will not be a resident for that long as it will take time to get your PdiS then some time after to establish residency, so you should be good. However, I will defer to one of the other posters on this forum who are more versed in taxes (JacksterJam and DoppoCittidiano).

With regard to not applying for citizenship, if you are not an Italian citizen you cannot legally work without sponsorship from an Italian company who will in turn get you a work visa. My PdiS specifically states “non lavoro”. If you do become an Italian citizen you do not have to worry about being able to work as you will be an “Italian” at that point and can work legally anywhere in Italy you can find a job. The non-working clause pertains to US Citizens on an elective resident PdiS. As for me personally, I opted to not become an Italian citizen as I receive a US Government (Military) pension which according to the US/Italy Tax treaty cannot be taxed by Italy. However, if I become an Italian, then Italy taxes it’s citizens income regardless of where it was earned. So for me, I have not benefit of becoming an Italian, as I do not intend to work here.

Let me know about your situation and I can answer a little better the other questions

ewtexpat
  1/7/2017 07:48 EST

Grazie maluza86, your helpful information has raised a few question that I hope you can provide some insight. My spouse is Italian and we recently married last summer. My plan is to request to the Questura for a Permesso di Soggiorno around mid-June and based on our own investigation this process doesn't seem too difficult. However, could you discuss a bit more about "not able to work." Since I met my spouse over two years ago while traveling back and forth I have been working a good bit at various universities mostly in the area of faculty development workshops. I'm issued contract, pay taxes etc... I even use the IRS letter (form 6166) so my taxes in Italy are reduced to 8% instead of 37%. Everything is above board. My hope is that when I retire in Italy in mid June of this year I will be able to work on a part-time bases. Is the restriction of not being able to generate any income in Italy based on the type of visa you have, the fact of being married? Is there anyway I can legally work such as immediately begin the process of applying for citizenship?

Can you also discuss a bit more of the tax advantage of not applying for citizenship?

Lastly, I would prefer not to pay income taxes this year (2017) for a variety of reasons. I will likely arrive in Italy in mid June making my stay for 2017 more than 183 days. Do you know when the counting begins; when I submit the request (within 48 hours of arrival) or when I receive the permission to stay? Your help in response to any of these questions is most appreciated

thanks, expat52

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proseh58
  1/7/2017 05:17 EST

Sorry, just realized you're on a tourist visa, so our experience doesn't apply. We were on an a long stay visa.

proseh58
  1/7/2017 05:15 EST

In our experience applying for the permesso while here on the visa, the clock ran on the visa the full nine months it took us to get the permesso.

maluza86
  1/7/2017 02:33 EST

One caveat, since your husband is Italian, if he works, or has a pension, you might not have to show any form of income as he will support you. My case was a little different as my wife doesn't work and has no pension, so I had to show I would not be "a burden to the state." Also I am not allowed to work in Italy. Sorry for the long dual post but I wanted to provide some background info.

maluza86
  1/7/2017 02:27 EST

Buongiorno Matteo1968, I did exactly what you mention. In 2014 my wife, who is a dual national and I moved to Italy from the US. I did nothing beforehand as far as obtaining a visa as you have a right married to an Italian to be with your spouse. We just traveled over here as tourists and left the US on US passports. I did buy a round trip ticket though, that fell within our 90 days for two reasons. One, lots of questions if you buy a one way ticket overseas, we had pets traveling with us also, and two it was cheaper :-) I followed the rest of the procedures and submitted my request to the Questura for a Permesso di Soggiorno within the first week here. They did want to see some form of retirement income, (I showed them a copy of my military pension) although not nearly the amounts or other paperwork (tax returns, investments, etc) others mention who have to get a visa. Once you submit the paperwork you are good to go as you have applied for the "permission to stay." If I remember correctly it took about 30-45 days to receive the actual document...and three trips. Once to do the actual submission, another to bring the necessary "bollo" or stamps to pay, get finger printed, photographed, etc, and the last time to pick it up. The other good thing is your PdiS will be good for the remaining time on your US passport, unlike others who have to resubmit every two years, so ensure you have max time on your passport. You are also entitled to apply for citizenship through your husband if you so desire. I did not as that would cause tax issues with my military pension and there was (is) no reason for me personally to become an Italian citizen. I get medical through my wife being an Italian citizen. Good luck let me know if you need any further info via this forum or send me a PM.

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