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let's not spoil Nicaragua

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misspatente
1/23/2017 20:36 EST

Hi,

I'm an older lady from Montréal, going to Nicaragua and planning to live there. My son's (estranged)dad is from there and I know the culture and the language.

I'm noticing that whenever a place is nice and inexpensive, expats and tourists flock over and everything becomes way more expensive. Costa Rica, Belize, Panama, and Croatia are good examples of this.

I live on a small pension and chose Nicaragua mostly because of the low prices. It really saddens me that Americans and Canadians are starting to build extravagant housing communities. San Juan del Sur is now inaccessible for me (and most Nicaraguenses). Let's not spoil this rare not-so-well kept secret that is Nicaragua.

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Nicaman
1/24/2017 07:36 EST

Good point young lady. LETS NOT Do THE SAME AS CR AND OTHERS HAVE , as far as all the homes and gateted communities that are being built , this will not stop. And this why I am doing a special type of planned AFFORDABLE COMMUNITY, AND YES BEACH FRONT. I iam fucusing on the working class and the people on a budget , like my self.
I was a General Contractor for 30+ years in Calif and also born in California both my parents are Nicas. Believe me this comes very handy living heard. I not be able to make it with what social security is so posed to pay me, and that if the elegals have not drains my and some of you ally chump change by the time iam 65.

Anyways don't want to bore you any further. HAVE A BEAUTIFUL DAY Y VALLA CON DIOS MY FRIENDS.??

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jhutch621
1/24/2017 07:44 EST

My fears, too. 8 years of 1% COLA moving backwards big-time. Fortunately old age doesn't last long.

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atz111
1/24/2017 08:13 EST

The logic of your post eludes me. You plan to move here but think the influx of expats will ruin the country. So, it's OK for you to move down but not for others. Hmmmm. And people should not build the type of homes that they want to live in....they should build down to what you can afford. FYI 90% of the "expensive" homes built in Nicaragua are built and owned by Nicaraguans, I guess you don't like the idea of the locals moving up.

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atz111
1/24/2017 08:20 EST

I hope you build better than you spell. Likely not....another wannabe arrive yo fix nicaragua and he cannot even take care of himself.

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elduendegrande
1/24/2017 08:27 EST

Ditto, there are market forces at play that will "ruin" Nicaragua whether anybody likes it or not.

Reminds me of a cartoon I clipped out and mailed to a sailor friend of mine years ago. It showed a lake full of sailboats and each one had a caption that said "Lotta jerks out today".

Or that old classic "Don't Californicate Arizona: visit, enjoy, then go home".

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iguanalover
1/24/2017 08:40 EST

Nicaragua is a rapidly developing country. You will be very surprised by the Nicas you will meet. The ones we know are not the poor and the oppressed, they have plenty of money. Do no make your decision on what was in the past, the future is here and the Nicas are rushing to get in on it. When we go into Managua we are surrounded by a sea of brand new cars and they are driven by NIcas. We go to many very nice suburbs and the houses are owned by Nicas. If you are looking for inexpensive, I suggest you may want to look around carefully. Do not judge the country by SJDS. The expats are a part of the problem but only a small part. We live in a totally Nica neighborhood and when you walk around in the early evening, grandma and her family are sitting outside with their tablets and expensive cell phones. The lifestyle you describe is already gone.

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elduendegrande
1/24/2017 09:33 EST

We are 11,000 years late for the pure Nicaragua. It has been going uphill or downhill, depending on you POV, ever since the first Siberians moved in.

The Food Court at Metrocentro is a much the real Nicaragua as some mudhole finca in the boonies.

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KeyWestPirate
1/24/2017 12:20 EST

You may find what you are looking in the north,, including north beaches north of Corinto. Still cheap.

Estelí, Matagalpa, Jinotega,, and many of the smaller cities of the north are still reasonable

But,, remember what you describe as spoiling is the Nica's prosperity finally coming to fruition.

The country is still a third of Costa Rica costs.

The key: get in while you can. Staying costs are very little. Much of what kills retirees in the US,, such as property taxes,, are extremely low here. I pay more in diesel to drive to Telpaneca to pay my fincq taxes, than I pay in taxes.

This new found prosperity serves us all.

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englishvinal
1/24/2017 17:44 EST

I do not believe that Misspatant meant to denigrate either the native Nicaraguan people, OR.... anyone of the retired good folk who so enjoy living in a genuine healthy country like Nicaragua.
We see the natural friendly attitudes of the Nicas being slowly morphed from natural caring generosity to one of ill concealed greed, And the recent shift comes from the influence of the "western consumer motif" that is enough is never enough and bigger is better as a guiding philosophy.

A truly beautiful natural land is turning into a noticeable 1%.... versus the 99% - and the 99% see how it goes and strive to reach further up the food chain comprised of: "its all about the money".
I think that is what she meant, and meant no "offense" to any particular individual. I very much appreciate her thoughts.

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misspatente
1/24/2017 21:02 EST

Gracias muchacho!

Aprecio mucho lo que estas haciendo. Honestamente, yo soy Francesa Canadiense, aqui hay una comunidad de Nicas que se han ido despues de la revolucion. La mayoria de los Nicas Expats son de derecha, pero eso no tiene nada que ver. SI, hay gente pobre que quieren ir a vivir en este pais. Sabes que aqui hace menos 30 en Invierno.... we deserve a little break loleven if we're not rich! An especially now, I do not want to be called "Gringa". Julie-Marie

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misspatente
1/25/2017 01:27 EST

Sorry, who are you talking to about spelling?

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misspatente
1/25/2017 01:51 EST

Not sure if you're very cynical or just self-serving. Of course there are market forces at play. Of course I want people in Nica to have a "better life"- like us? So why do we go live there? It happened in Spain and Portugal, Eastern Europe and North Africa: the Euro brought up all the prices and now locals are struggling. Development is good, but it has to be owned by locals. If Americans are buying land and building gated communities, or as I call them, "compounds" then selling them to other Americans who want to speak English with their American neighbors and huddle together in fear, bringing prices up to American Dollar values, there will be a two-tier economy just like in Cuba (another example - Euros and Canadian Dollars). I'm not sure it's so great for locals. Anyways, do you want to see Taco Bell and Olive Garden all over the Pacific coast? And eventually on the Caribbean side?

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misspatente
1/25/2017 02:08 EST

Thanks :) The only Nicas I know here in Montréal came after Somoza was outed. They had money. Most were well educated. Their children are now working here as professionals and they are investing in their country. I am not ignorant or naïve. This was not a wave of economic refugees. In most cases, they were real political refugees. Nicaragua is not a poor third-world country. It has an elaborate culture, many descendants of Chinese immigrants who grew businesses 2-3 generations ago and superb dignity. I just get scared when I see too many "Gringos". At least learn Spanish...it's not that hard! People all over the World are bilingual and multi-lingual. Just not you guys.

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misspatente
1/25/2017 02:11 EST

Thanks for your positive response. Much appreciated. Many Americans are on the defensive lol

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misspatente
1/25/2017 02:21 EST

Thank God one person understood! Yes, you said it better than I did, englishvinal. By the way, I'm French Canadian and my son is 1/2 Nica, so I'm not so unaware lol. His grandma is a Matriarch from Masaya, turning 90 in February. A beautiful, wise and classy lady. I would just like Nicaragua to remain Nicaragua. Those who are all hostile are just being defensive.

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misspatente
1/25/2017 15:53 EST

Please let me know about your project! Maybe I can be of help :)

julie-marie

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johnchip
1/26/2017 13:01 EST

After you lectured us on '"how to act as an expat in Nicaragua", how to build, how to invest, tell us to 'learn Spanish', and how to 'behave', then to say..."...many Americans are on the defensive. Lol.". More than on the 'defensive', I for one am on the "Offended" by your arrogant outsider remarks. And the most offensive is how you make it sound like Nicas are supposed to be living in a home for nice little Down's Syndrome children and you hope they all stay that way. Go ride your Canadin pet moose and join a garden club near an old folks home and preach to the choir of like minded idiots. You are an offensive know-it-all who has no place on this forum, let alone in Nicaragua.

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glockdiver69
1/26/2017 17:55 EST

@miss: Have you been to Nica lately? You scorn the expats (Americans) who build their "compounds" and live in it in fear...nothing but BS. Here is the truth at least for my community, which is a secure gated community. Our community has BUILT and it owners help fund a library, computer learning center, after school place for the local children, vocational classes and oh yeah, a full size health clinic with an ambulance and stocked pharmacy. This single community is responsible for more than 800+ DIRECT, well paying jobs with SS and full benefits. Plus, the owners employ additional employees and this has spurred more ancillary jobs. What have YOU done for Nica?
If you want to move to Nica and live like a local, go ahead. Enjoy the simple life. However, do not dare criticize others whom have more money than you and choose to live in a nice house (built by quality Nica labor) and in a gated community with full ammineties. It is not out of fear, it is out of choice you idiot.
Lastly, while I am not fluent in Spanish. I do very well talking to people in Spanish. I am still learning and I may get the tenses wrong sometimes, but at least I am trying. All of my friends in Nica are also semi-fluent or are talking Spanish classes.
Know you facts before you spot off with such generalized bable next time.
Stay in Canada!

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novato1953
1/26/2017 19:01 EST

I, for one, hope to be the first person to jet-ski the breadth of the new canal.

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englishvinal
1/26/2017 19:47 EST

Glockdiver69
Please don't be mean-spirited. Especially to an "older lady"... It takes all kinds of people to make a world, and an honest older lady from Canada does not belong to any group that would steal, rob, kill and/or run a drug trot-line through Nicaragua.
She has the option of moving to Nicaragua as does anyone else. Perhaps she is not as "socially oriented" as you seem to be. Reading your resume' is impressive and I am delighted to think that you have helped people... but this lady certainly has NOT harmed anyone, and she may have helped folks but didn't feel it necessary to mention it.
Be kind, especially to older people. Life is like a boomerang.. what you put out really does come back.

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KeyWestPirate
1/26/2017 20:27 EST

Or water ski the length.

My thighs and arms are already burning.

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xman
1/27/2017 08:30 EST

lets all be nice to misspatente, for all we know she may be an undercover Sandinista trying to push our buttons. To much bk n forth with MP either you make the move or you don't. not matter what will tell her, it will never add up to how it truly is here... As for me an MIAMI EXPAT born in the 70s to parents that came from Cuba with the PETER PAN KIDS am so happy when I open my eyes in the morning, look around at what I have, as small as it may be, and say thank you lord. I've chosen to live here, work here & raise my kids here. I feel that I can do more good here then anywhere else. and for that, NIC is for me!!!! (at the moment)

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misspatente
1/27/2017 10:34 EST

Hola. No soy Sandinista lol. Soy Canadiense Francesa de Montréal, Québec. Me quiero disculpar porque parece que sin darme cuenta he ofendido a muchos Americanos. Usted me cree Sandinista y hay otro que me cree Somosista!

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novato1953
1/27/2017 10:47 EST

I don't believe people are offended as much as awed. It's not often one encounters such firm beliefs arrived at from 4,000 miles away. It's cute, the way a kid in Topeka imagining the ocean is cute.

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feliceb
1/27/2017 11:00 EST

It would be nice if you put that in english for all of us Americans:)
Thank you since it is a bit different than your apology in english

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misspatente
1/30/2017 22:47 EST

Awww... gee thanks. I'll take that as a compliment despite the condescending tone. At my age, being called cute is always nice!

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johnchip
1/30/2017 23:15 EST

Ah, so 'cute'. And an expert on Nica life, a global political analyst, an expert on global real estate, the effect of immigration on local economies, an insightful sociologist in the differences of American and Canadian culture. Now that you have established yourself as an internet personality and expert on the forum lecture curcuit, WOULD YOU ACTUALLY LIKE TO ASK A QUESTION OF THE NICA EXPAT COMMUNITY? (that is kinda what these forums are for)

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ricktee
1/30/2017 23:26 EST

While the forum may be for questions too many responders are so crass that people are insensed. Why are you so crass? Does it give you a sense of power?

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johnchip
1/30/2017 23:52 EST

RickyTeeshirt, you are .a piece of work. You come on here playing patty cake with the lady with the moose, then come back on calling me names and psychoanalyzing my personality. When did you get voted to speak for others?
... "people are insensed."...
Stay home and "pour the tea."

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johnchip
1/30/2017 23:52 EST

RickyTeeshirt, you are .a piece of work. You come on here playing patty cake with the lady with the moose, then come back on calling me names and psychoanalyzing my personality. When did you get voted to speak for others?
... "people are insensed."...
Stay home and "pour the tea."

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johnchip
1/30/2017 23:52 EST

RickyTeeshirt, you are .a piece of work. You come on here playing patty cake with the lady with the moose, then come back on calling me names and psychoanalyzing my personality. When did you get voted to speak for others?
... "people are insensed."...
Stay home and "pour the tea."

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johnchip
1/30/2017 23:52 EST

RickyTeeshirt, you are .a piece of work. You come on here playing patty cake with the lady with the moose, then come back on calling me names and psychoanalyzing my personality. When did you get voted to speak for others?
... "people are insensed."...
Stay home and "pour the tea."

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ricktee
1/31/2017 01:32 EST

Iittle minds rereveal their ignorance by their crass comments, thankyou j.

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ricktee
1/31/2017 01:32 EST

Iittle minds rereveal their ignorance by their crass comments, thankyou j.

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misspatente
1/31/2017 03:42 EST

the lady with the Moose, really? not stereotype at all... quite nuanced. Ricky has a point.

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misspatente
1/31/2017 03:49 EST

I am leaving on Friday, headed for Poneloya for starters. I do have questions. Does anyone know if it's possible to rent a car from a private source? I can't see myself getting around by bus and can't afford $80/day for a month. Also, is anyone living in Leon?

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misspatente
1/31/2017 03:53 EST

Thank you Ricky

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Edgenaples
10/16/2017 11:28 EST

My wife and I are going to buy something soon, in her hometown of Corinto. She still has a lot of family there and we hope to retire there in 6-7 years. But, we want to buy before prices go up any more.

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novato1953
10/16/2017 11:37 EST

Takes a damn-the-torpedoes kind of guy to move next-door to the in-laws, but at least you'll have easy reference sources for real estate prices.

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feliceb
10/16/2017 11:59 EST

How does one really know if real estate prices are legitimate? And what should an offer be compared to the listed price?
feliceb

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feliceb
10/16/2017 11:59 EST

How does one really know if real estate prices are legitimate? And what should an offer be compared to the listed price?
feliceb

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johnchip
10/16/2017 14:11 EST

With real estate, anywhere, "legitimate" is 'what the market will bear.' Nicaragua is no different. Some dreamers price a house way above what is realistic, others offer theirs for an "I need the money" price. You can price a house. And like anywhere, you can price the value realistically by the cost of construction and materials. Land price is set by location to convenience. You cannot do any of this from afar. You need to be here and get to know the areas you have interest in. To know the neighborhood is what you can't know until you are locally oriented.; is there a shack, chicken house or evangelical church next door? I would certainly not buy anything until you have been in your chosen location for a year. Also, you will need a lawyer, so working with one for the beginning should allay much of your suspicions. Real estate ads in www. Encuentra24.com will give you as close to an MLS as there is by town and region. As to 'offers', there is no secret formula. You always have to ask, 'what is it worth to you"? An offer is only just that, an offer. Your attorney should help you with that. Don't assume you can move anywhere and 'get a deal' that is better than someone who does their homework and explores their options themselves.

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feliceb
10/16/2017 16:22 EST

to johnchip
Thank you for the information. We have been numerous times to Nicaragua and have decided more or less on one of two beach locations. What has been frustrating is to see the same property with 3-4 different prices .
You are so right about not knowing the areas until there. We have our lawyer and have watched ads in Encuentra and am glad to know it could be regarded as an MLS of sorts.
What you write that one has to ask oneself is correct:"what is it worth to you?"
WE have been doing our homework for 3 years now with the visits et al.
Thank you very much for your advice as it is greatly appreciated.
feliceb

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tommyhawk
10/16/2017 16:43 EST

The house prices should not be frustrating but just a starting point. The only price that matters is what a buyer is willing to pay and the seller is willing to accept.

Do your homework on prices and offer what you think is fair and the seller will usually do the same. I've seen properties listed for 40% more than the neighbors knew the owner expected to get. I recently bought a house for almost 50% less than the Encuentra 24 listing by talking with the people in town. Along with a couple of dinner offers and a few beers for them of course.

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johnchip
10/16/2017 17:08 EST

If this is new construction, there should be little variance, but making an offer is not precluded as if it was investment group built, getting their money out is often more important than profit margin. But with an older property, there may be issues. I have seen property sell, then challenged by relatives who claim they also own it. Often people die intestate here, so the 'harpies' come in to roost and scam. It may be different people, family and friends, are offering it for sale, some thinking they can skim more off the top than others. And as it is, Nicas change their mind with the rain. If you are looking at beach properties, they have more of a potential turnover/resale potential than inland properties. But as all 'resort' or vacation properties, the market swings highs and lows as interest in such luxury comes and goes with the tides. It is not a US resale market by any means; turn around with any Nica property could take a decade or more. The closer you are to the actual beach, the town center and major roads will determine the investment value of the property. Do not count on any promises, predictions, or gambles on 'what the future may bring'. Nicaragua is still close to being the third world. It does sound like you are making all the right moves.

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feliceb
10/16/2017 17:42 EST

to Tommyhawk
Thank you for your post. we are trying to do our homework.
it is nice to know there are people on this site who care about giving info to those of us planning on living in Nicaragua permanently. We want beach and a simple lifestyle with access to go to cities when we want. We have friends in Managua and Granada, but the beach has got to us and we have narrowed it down to two after having been to 11 different places in Nicaragua for the beach.
Thanks again for your insight.

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feliceb
10/16/2017 17:42 EST

to Tommyhawk
Thank you for your post. we are trying to do our homework.
it is nice to know there are people on this site who care about giving info to those of us planning on living in Nicaragua permanently. We want beach and a simple lifestyle with access to go to cities when we want. We have friends in Managua and Granada, but the beach has got to us and we have narrowed it down to two after having been to 11 different places in Nicaragua for the beach.
Thanks again for your insight.

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feliceb
10/16/2017 18:04 EST

TO Johnchip,
We are looking at either an existing house on the beach or buying land and building. I lived in Italy 24 years and am looking forward to our new life in Nicaragua. We have no illusions-just a love of what we have seen, good friends who are all Nicaraguan and a gut feeling this is right. My husband fell in love with the country on our first trips I was delighted. We want the beach to be able to walk in our now later years and we do not want a development.We are not looking for a return on the investment except our contentment.
Thank you again for your wise words.
feliceb

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johnchip
10/22/2017 00:41 EST

You are doing all the right things. Keep up the due diligence. I live here with a Nica family I worked with in 3 countries and the 3 boys were born in my bed, so I am like Granddaddy+. I have no other family left after being widowed twice childless. So this is it for me, my family, for better or worse. Others come here for a retirement resort life It is not here by most standards. A couple who moves here is alone together, and we know how that can often get 'too tight'. for many and their needs outside of the partnership are very limited here. Family and friends rarely visit more than once You may find yourself too isolated after a point. Expats are not an answer to companionship as most are here because of something wrong with them. I have internet network with many of my past friends but do not expect much them here. I also lived in Italy. Naples 1966-68. If I were you, I would stop this Nica dream and go live on one of the fabulous, historic, accessible, developed Italian Riverias and be happy with your toes in the calamari sands.

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Dlee1154
10/22/2017 01:13 EST

and how do you propose to do that?

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Dlee1154
10/22/2017 01:19 EST

Don't put Cuba in the same category- the USA is responsible for Cuba's lack of prosperity.

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johnchip
10/22/2017 05:14 EST

I apologize if you may think my comments are judgmental. I find my personal world-wide expat friends most happy in places they have 'real' contacts. My Neopalitano high school friends have a great network still. Many chose to stay and became Italians. Think twice, and God blessings to your decisions. Here, you will always be the outsider. An expat community is 'unreal'. It is made up of a random sort of vagabonds who will never be more than occasional tourists in your life. Unless you have true roots here, you will find yourself the 'inconstant' family and the one here without rooted family friendships that make life work, on casual friendships. Do not be charmed by the needy who seek access to your friendship. True Nicas do not need new friends. They have the family. Who will you be to them?

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feliceb
10/22/2017 11:19 EST

To Johnchip
Ah bella Napoli,
Parli ancora?
I understand exactly what you are saying, where in Firenze, my friends were my family and we are still close. My husband would not want to be that far from is two sons. I only have one cousin in the US..everyone else is dead. This is a fist and late marriage for me, so no children. We, I think, know what we want and have little expectations about people in Nicaragua. One of our friends is married to a Frenchman and our other friends lived in the States and practiced there many years. I had contemplated us returning to Italy where I have my godchild..calamari sands sounds so nice. I love all the area from Potato Santo Stefano to Genova, but terribly costly and he wants the ease to get to the states in a couple hours.
Thank you so much again for your wisdom. I think you are absolutely correct. I was 21 when I moved to 31 when I was going back and forth and 45 when I returned permanently stateside! I have no romantic expectations of life in Nicaragua. It is a beautiful country, friendly people and we will always, like all ex-pats be the outsiders at this point in life.
However we do want a simple life on the beach..we have assessed our needs outside the couple..we are very blessed that way..been there done everything we both had wanted in the past..now want to enjoy the last third together(if I get a third:). )
Thank you again.

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feliceb
10/22/2017 11:19 EST

To Johnchip
Ah bella Napoli,
Parli ancora?
I understand exactly what you are saying, where in Firenze, my friends were my family and we are still close. My husband would not want to be that far from is two sons. I only have one cousin in the US..everyone else is dead. This is a fist and late marriage for me, so no children. We, I think, know what we want and have little expectations about people in Nicaragua. One of our friends is married to a Frenchman and our other friends lived in the States and practiced there many years. I had contemplated us returning to Italy where I have my godchild..calamari sands sounds so nice. I love all the area from Potato Santo Stefano to Genova, but terribly costly and he wants the ease to get to the states in a couple hours.
Thank you so much again for your wisdom. I think you are absolutely correct. I was 21 when I moved to 31 when I was going back and forth and 45 when I returned permanently stateside! I have no romantic expectations of life in Nicaragua. It is a beautiful country, friendly people and we will always, like all ex-pats be the outsiders at this point in life.
However we do want a simple life on the beach..we have assessed our needs outside the couple..we are very blessed that way..been there done everything we both had wanted in the past..now want to enjoy the last third together(if I get a third:). )
Thank you again.

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Edgenaples
4/4/2018 16:46 EST

I am American...proud of it....and Bilingual,

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Moving to Nicaragua: 13 Things to Know Before You Move to Nicaragua

If you're thinking about moving to Nicaragua, you must read these 13 things to know before moving to Nicaragua. Expats offer realistic and honest advice about cost of living, learning the language, poverty, renting vs. buying and much more.

If you're thinking about moving to Nicaragua, you must read these 13 things to know before moving to Nicaragua. Expats offer realistic and honest advice about cost of living, learning the language, p...

Moving-To-LeonAn Expat Talks about Moving to Leon, Nicaragua

An expat who moved to Leon, Nicaragua talks about how she chose Leon, finding her first place to live with the help of a local real estate agency, getting advice from other expats before she moved and much more. She advises others to bring more sheets and towels, more pots and pans and to leave fancy, warm clothing and shoes at home.

An expat who moved to Leon, Nicaragua talks about how she chose Leon, finding her first place to live with the help of a local real estate agency, getting advice from other expats before she moved and...

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